Module talk:Quotations/zle-ono/data

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Latest comment: 1 month ago12 comments2 people in discussion

Catonif I am very interested in your project (Module:bibliography) and in the future I want to transfer to it all the references of the languages ​​that I edit ‒ Old Novgorodian (zle-ono) and Old Ruthenian (zle-ort). But now I'm at a dead end... because I can't create Module:Quotations/zle-ono/data properly. Once the module for Quotations for zle-ono was created, I could continue and finish work on Old Novgorodian Bibliography.

Could you help me with this? You understand code and I think if you found a free 10 minutes some evening, you could solve my problem. To briefly describe what the problem is... Old Novgorodian inscriptions are found on birch bark and on objects. There are 2 sites with a database of these inscriptions... gramoty.ru/birchbark = b (birchbark), for example {{Q|zle-ono|b|novgorod/955|quote=|t=}}, {{Q|zle-ono|b|staraya-russa/35|quote=|t=}} and epigrafika.ru/epigraphy = e (epigraphy), for example {{Q|zle-ono|e|887|quote=|t=}}
The second parameter should point to the URL part of the link and generally pull all the data about the quote from Module:Quotations/zle-ono/data.
{{Q|zle-ono|b|novgorod/955|quote=|t=}} = http://gramoty.ru/birchbark/document/show/novgorod/955/, {{Q|zle-ono|b|staraya-russa/35|quote=|t=}} = http://gramoty.ru/birchbark/document/show/staraya-russa/35/, {{Q|zle-ono|e|887|quote=|t=}} = http://epigrafika.ru/epigraphy/inscription/show/887
In the end... something like this:
{{Q|zle-ono|b|novgorod/955|quote=|t=}} = c. 1380‒1400 CE, Birch bark letter no. 9551, Novgorod:
(where are links to references that I will add to the bibliography in the future)
I used this template before: {{RQ:birchbark}}. AshFox (talk) 08:28, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
I forgot to add that if you created such a working template Module:Quotations/zle-ono/data. I would then manually fill in all 1000+ fields regarding each birch bark letter and inscription. AshFox (talk) 13:36, 6 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
@AshFox Hi! Unfortunately {{Q}} is not very versatile in its usage as it was made with the scope of quoting from classical works, hence it expects an author-book-chapter structure which hundreds of birchbark letters are not naturally made to correspond to. Still, it can definitely be made to work within its system by treating "birchbark letter" as an author, and each individual letter as a work of his. Alternatively, we can create a module backing {{RQ:birchbark}} with a database containing all the years information. Tell me which one would be your preferred option. Catonif (talk) 14:54, 8 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Catonif I would like to use these letter abbreviations (an example of where I will take them from). These abbreviations should be |3= "title of the work":
And now the most difficult part, why I contacted you. I don't know how to do it correctly. It is necessary that these abbreviations "title of the work" automatically pull all the necessary information from zle-ono/data.
b-n-955 = year c. 1380 ‒ 1400 CE, title Birch bark letter no. 955, location Novgorod, refn
b-sr-35 = year c. 1140 ‒ 1160 CE, title Birch bark letter no. St. R. 35, location Staraya Russa, translator Schaeken, Jos
e-887 = year c. 1100 ‒ 1200 CE, title Counting tag "Ust-Yemtsa", location Novgorod
  1. ^ {{bibref|zle-ono|NGB|p=55|vol=16}}
  2. ^ {{bibref|zle-ono|Faccani:2006}}
  3. ^ {{bibref|zle-ono|Collins:2011}}
    4. I only need this template to start. And I will fill in the remaining 2000+ lines myself for each of the 1172 Birch bark letters... b-n-1, b-n-2, b-n-3 ... b-n-955 ... b-n-1172 and e-1 ... e-887. I hope you can help me with this when you have some free time. AshFox (talk) 16:44, 8 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @AshFox Thank you for the clear and thorough instructions. :) Well, I made the module page as closely to the request as possible, though it still has a number of flaws:
    {{Q}} is limiting, this is pretty much the best one can do. As you can see the formatting is a bit off (e.g. the spurious space before colon, as it expected a chapter number there), and the MOD:Quotations infrastructure is not made to support the |refn= and |translator= from within the bibliography but only from template calls. If we want greater control over the output we need to build this outside of {{Q}} as a separate module, which is what I would suggest. Catonif (talk) 22:21, 8 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @Catonif Thank you very much for your time. Anyone else would refuse to help me. Everything turned out quite well, better than I expected.
    As for |refn=, I talked about it after seeing such a parameter in Module:Quotations/gmq-pro/data. And also note that in the date {{Q|gmq-pro||Hogganvik|quote=|t=}}, it somehow automatically converts c. to circa and the abbreviations CE as well.
    c. 150 CE – 450 CE, Hogganvik stone
    I would like the same. AshFox (talk) 05:05, 9 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @AshFox No worries. About gmq-pro/data using |refn=, even though the parameter is specified there it is not actually supported by the module and hence is not actually shown in the instances of {{Q|gmq-pro}}, so I am not sure why it is there. About CE, it was not formatting properly before because the module only supports "AD". The thing is, the module automatically removes "AD" from years from 1000 onwards (due to line #3 on Module:Quotations/date validation) which I agree is a good idea, especially for a language that ranges from 11th to 15th century. Catonif (talk) 06:45, 9 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @Catonif Thank you, what came out looks pretty good so far:
    It's a pity that the refn parameter doesn't work from the module.
    I have 3 more requests for you, sorry, it's very inconvenient for me to take up your time, but I am very grateful that you are helping.
    1. Please delete Module:Quotations/data/zle-ono, I accidentally created it at the very beginning.
    2. Please add zle-ort to the list of languages ​​in Module:Quotations (which can only be edited by admins), I want to make a module with quotes for it in the future too.
    3. And the hardest part. Is it possible to add third-party "works" to the already existing magnificent module Module:Quotations/zle-ono/data (which I will gradually fill with information in the future), in addition to the existing data on epigraphy and birch bark letters? These ones: {{RQ:N1L}}, {{RQ:zle-ono:PskEv21}}, {{RQ:zle-ono:Dogovor:1323}}. Just integrate them into the list so that the abbreviation, for example, Dogovor:1323 ‒ gives year = 1323, title = Treaty of Nöteborg. I will fill in the rest of the information (e.g. location, etc.) myself.
    If it is possible to add 3 more sources for quotations besides birch bark/epigraphs, then add them at the beginning of the list so that they are not hidden at the end of the huge future list of birch bark letters.
    Thanks <3 AshFox (talk) 16:01, 9 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @AshFox No worries, I am happy to be able to help out. :) I added Dogovor, I will let you add the others (for the url you can specify url = "https://...").
    • Dogovor:1323
    Catonif (talk) 14:03, 10 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

    @Catonif. Problems have arisen again. Sorry to bother you. Help me if you have some free time. I don't want to distract you, I feel awkward. --AshFox (talk) 07:48, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

    1. I started filling in the list of birch bark letters from the beginning, starting from n1 to n20... and immediately the location definition broke.
    2. I made a full list of locations and their abbreviations in letters_locations =. But there are 2 letters that have a non-standard name and location & ... it is necessary that the location be set as Novgorod and at the same time the name is not like the others for Novgorodian letters ‒ Birch bark letter no. Lead 1 and Birch bark letter no. Lead 2.
    3. There are double letters such as n98/100... won't the / sign interfere with their identification?
    4. The most difficult thing... is it possible to create a separate list for the abbreviations of the object = parameter for birch bark letters and for inscriptions (as it is for locations) because they are very repetitive... if yes, then you can create 1-2 for example, I will fill in the rest...
    AshFox (talk) 08:00, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    @AshFox No worries, I tried to tackle those points. (1) Yes, that was my mistake. It has been fixed. (2) Can now be called as b/n-lead1. (3) That does not interfere:
    c. 1340 – 1360, Birch bark letter no. 98/100, Novgorod (Nerevsky excavation, Estate D)
    (4) I added that, though I tried to make the the abbreviations a bit less cryptic. Nonetheless, you can reinsert your preferred abbreviations into the sytem and they should work. Catonif (talk) 17:05, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply
    1. ^ NGB XII, page 55‒59: “№ 955”
    2. ^ Collins (2011)
    3. ^ Inscription/entry N Viking2011;28 in the RuneS-Database ot the research project Runic Writing in the Germanic Languages (RuneS) of the Göttingen Academy of Sciences and Humanities in Lower Saxony, 2025.
    4. ^ NGB XII, page 55‒59: “№ 955”
    5. ^ Collins (2011)
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