Module talk:zh-usex

Is there another way to do this?

— justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Test:

乾道  ―  qiándào  ―  ways of heaven; natural law

— This unsigned comment was added by Wyang (talk • contribs).

Second test:

乾道  ―  qiándào  ―  ways of heaven; natural law

乾道  ―  qiándào  ―  ways of heaven; natural law

道#Chinese|乾道]]  ―  qiándào  ―  ways of heaven; natural law

I think it has to do with automatic bold based on the page name.

—suzukaze (t・c) 03:46, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, it is due to the boldify function and simp detection downstream of that. Fixed now. Wyang (talk) 04:14, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang: I just fixed it in like 3 minutes ago... how are you so fast? --kc_kennylau (talk) 04:17, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

;) Wyang (talk) 04:21, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang: Oops, we had an edit conflict. @Justinrleung --kc_kennylau (talk) 04:18, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Kc kennylau, Wyang Thanks! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:23, 17 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

is not working right at 條. @Kc kennylau —suzukaze (t・c) 06:56, 11 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang, Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c Hi, I d' like to remove spaces in pinyin for 跑出去 (pǎochūqù), which may be an SoP, so no need to have a red link or maybe use a space in the example, e.g. "跑 出去" but force it to display "pǎochūqù" without a space? Or should I just use 跑 出去 and let it display "pǎo chūqù"? What's possible here?

This is the usage example:

他一得空便跑出去玩。

Tā yī dékōng biàn pǎochūqù wán.

As soon as gets free, he (then) runs out to play.

--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:27, 22 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

You can use:

他一得空便跑出去玩。

Tā yī dékòng biàn pǎochūqù wán.

As soon as gets free, he (then) runs out to play.

Wyang (talk) 07:06, 22 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang Thank you and for {kòng}! --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:40, 22 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang, Suzukaze-c, is there a way to change the toggle label after it's expanded? It should say "show less" after expanding. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Suzukaze-c is probably more qualified than me... I changed the text to "Expand/Hide" for now. (An example entry is 孫の手 for reference.) Wyang (talk) 23:23, 13 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang, Justinrleung: Guys, 俄而  ―  é'ér  ―  after a while; presently needs an apostrophe (é'ér) in 俄. It shows here, though but not in the entry for some reason (俄而 ― éér ― after a while; presently). I think it's to do with bolding. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:18, 23 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Atitarev: It should be fixed (diff), but it's probably not the best way to fix it. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:22, 23 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung 陳塸／陈𫭟  ―  Chén'ōu  ―  the name of a place in Shanxi needs an apostrophe (Chén'ōu) in 塸. It shows here, but not in the entry for some reason (陳塸 / 陈𫭟 ― Chénōu). I think this also has something to do with bolding. --2600:1:B12C:C840:7013:CE3:41B6:51EE 06:09, 10 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

@2600:1:B12C:C840:7013:CE3:41B6:51EE: Thanks, this should be fixed (diff). — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:23, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung Now there is another problem. 𥔲嘉  ―  Èjiā  ―  the name of a place in Yunnan does not need an apostrophe (Èjiā) in 𥔲. It does not show here, but does in the entry for some reason (𥔲嘉 ― 'èjiā). --2600:1:B102:4705:60A7:CB97:9DDA:3E6A 08:26, 16 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

@2600:1:B102:4705:60A7:CB97:9DDA:3E6A: Thanks again, I hope it's all fixed now. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:42, 16 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

In Module:zh-usex, there is a section

		tag = " <ruby><rb><big>" ..
				tag_start .. variety_data .. 
					(simp_exist
						and ", '']''↑ + '']''↓"
						or ", '']'' and '']''") .. tag_end .. 
				
				tag_start .. "''rom.'': " .. variety_data .. tag_end ..
					"</rb></big></ruby>"

and it would appear that (to avoid misnested tags lint errors) the opening HTML tags

<ruby><rb><big>

should be closed with

</big></rb></ruby>

rather than

</rb></big></ruby>

as it is now. However, the edit tab doesn't give access to this section and I don't know how to do it, so I leave it for others to fix. —Anomalocaris (talk) 19:30, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Anomalocaris It should be fixed now. Wyang (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Wyang: Thanks! —Anomalocaris (talk) 23:16, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung the common pronounciation of 已經 in Hokkien is í-keng, not í-keⁿ. and the data in Module:zh/data/nan-pron/004 is "í-keng". Why template:zh-x use í-keⁿ as the default pronounciation of 已經? I suggested the pronounciation data should be modified. PS. I want to know the citation or the source of the pronounciation "í-keⁿ"--17:17, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Yoxem: It produces í-keⁿ based on the pronunciations of the individual characters, not for the word. We probably have to change the logic of the code, but for now, you can use 已經{keng} to fix any errors in the automatic romanization. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:18, 27 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang or @Justinrleung Hi, I just noticed that individual words are not linked to the Chinese section. Would someone mind fixing this? Thanks. KevinUp (talk) 16:10, 25 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Also, if the main character/compound is linked to another longer compound (i.e. not broken up), the main character/compound is no longer black or bold. This might be a bit harder to fix. KevinUp (talk) 16:18, 25 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ping also @Suzukaze-c for additional help in case no one responds because this is a non-essential task. KevinUp (talk) 16:51, 25 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Update: Individual words now link to the Chinese section. However it doesn't work if the page title, e.g. 水 (shuǐ) is quoted as part of another compound such as 口水 (kǒushuǐ) that is not spaced out. Anyone knows how to fix this? KevinUp (talk) 23:09, 25 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

@KevinUp: Your edit would only work for most cases, not all cases. I can't fix it today, but I can deal with it later if the other editors haven't already gone around doing it. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:35, 26 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

I just realized Chinese is most certainly the first header of a compound lemma, so it's not an issue really. Single character lemmas start with "Translingual", which is why I wanted to link it to the Chinese section. KevinUp (talk) 00:40, 26 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Erutuon Thanks for editing the module. Linking to Chinese section is now working. KevinUp (talk) 06:30, 28 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang: About the bolding issue in the version before this revert: it relates to this rule in MediaWiki:Common.css (permalink):

.Hani, .Hani * :not(:lang(vi)),
.Hans, .Hans *,
.Hant, .Hant * {
	font-style: normal;
	font-weight: normal;
}

For Hani, but not for Hans and Hant, the rule above is overridden by one lower down on the page:

b, strong { 
	font-weight: bold;
}

I don't get why this is happening because classes (.Hani) have higher precedence than tag names (b), so the first rule should overrule the second no matter the class name. But in any case it's the CSS that's the problem, not the code in this module. — Eru·tuon 22:50, 21 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

Well, it should be fixed before the switch-over is made. Wyang (talk) 22:54, 21 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang: I think you can just remove font-weight: normal; from the first rule quoted. Then all Han characters will be emboldenable. — Eru·tuon 00:19, 22 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

 Done Wyang (talk) 00:27, 22 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

I've used this template in 噇, 飽, 恰 and 閒 with a example sentence in Min Dong, like this:

噇飽恰閒。
噇饱恰闲。

Chòng bā kák èng. /

Have nothing else to do. / Don't you have nothing else to do? / Mind your own concerns/bussiness.

But Min Dong Romanization (en:Bàng-uâ-cê) can not be shown. I don't know why and don't know how to fix it. Anyone can help me? Davidzdh (talk) 13:40, 13 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

The "display_type" is not functioning, and neither is formatting around (en:Bàng-uâ-cê) in the "tr=" field. I've fixed it now. Michael Ly (talk) 17:03, 14 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

In entry 恐懼, in the second citation of the verb, "易卜生" is not displaying correctly. CC:@Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c. Dokurrat (talk) 13:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

I changed the way I deal with "易卜生" so the troubled rendering is not in the entry anymore. If anyone want to fix this issue, he or she is still welcomed though 😄... Dokurrat (talk) 13:57, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

(Obligate non-scriptio continua in a Mandarin Chinese example)

Most of the time, we assume that Mandarin Chinese is an unspaced scriptio continua. But there is a political slogan in Mainland China that includes an obligate space between the two halves of the six character phrase, and it appears in the original text of an example that I am adding (and elsewhere- not idiosyncratic or a typo). Is there a way to add a space between the actual characters (not just a space in the pinyin) in a zh-x? Here's the page with the example: 四十埠 (Sìshíbù). --Geographyinitiative (talk) 20:46, 4 March 2019 (UTC) (original post at )Reply

A solution was found which can be seen on the page. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:46, 5 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c: Hi,

The Cantonese trick CHAR{ROM} doesn' work

我唔識講]dung1]。
我唔识讲]dung1]。

ngo⁵ m⁴ sik¹ gong² gwong² dung¹ waa^6-2 {gwong² dung¹ waa^6-2 }.

I don't speak Cantonese.

Expected output is the same as:

我唔識講廣東話。
我唔识讲广东话。

ngo⁵ m⁴ sik¹ gong² gwong² dung¹ waa^6-2.

I don't speak Cantonese.

--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:40, 11 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Atitarev: The brackets have always been for individual characters, no? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 01:46, 11 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Suzukaze-c: A-a-h, thanks! --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:48, 11 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

I wonder if it is possible to temporarily disable pinyin in a MSC quotation. This would allow Cantonese editors to add MSC quotations and leave the pinyin to Mandarin-speaking editors (though in the long run I would prefer allowing MSC-C and even pinyin & jyutping in parallel, if Cantonese reading of MSC is stable enough to be included). Also, we might need to formally formulate our pinyin orthography (e.g. no space before 主義). There are cases which are not covered by the official PRC pinyin orthography.

(Notifying Kc kennylau, Atitarev, Tooironic, Jamesjiao, Meihouwang, Suzukaze-c, Justinrleung, Hongthay, Mar vin kaiser, Dokurrat, Zcreator alt, Geographyinitiative): --Dine2016 (talk) 13:20, 21 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

It sounds sensible to me.

(regarding 1) Although, perhaps {{attention|cmn|please check}} would require the least effort (and what if Cantonese, Hokkien needs checking, etc?). —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 16:23, 21 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Dine2016 I think your recent edits are causing incorrect output for some of the Min Nan examples, like at 青 (etymology 2, sense 1.2). 青青 should be chhiⁿ-chhiⁿ, not chhiⁿ--chhiⁿ. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:45, 22 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: Really? I think it was "chhiⁿ--chhiⁿ" back in 2019.

{{zh-x|'''測試'''||TW}} → 測試／测试   ―  chhek-chhì   ―  (please add an English translation of this usage example)

{{zh-x|'''測''''''試'''||TW}} → 測試／测试   ―  chhek-chhì   ―  (please add an English translation of this usage example)

--Dine2016 (talk) 03:16, 23 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Dine2016: You're right. Sorry for not checking carefully. @Erutuon, Suzukaze-c, any idea of how this could be fixed? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Would removal of '''''' help? (Interestingly, MediaWiki doesn't like this formatting either: 測'試'.) —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 04:26, 23 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Suzukaze-c, Justinrleung, Dine2016: Hi. Is it possible to add categorisation by the variety, so that |C= or |MN= produced Category:Cantonese terms with usage examples, Category:Min Nan terms with usage examples, etc.? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

Can the capitalisation be removed for Cantonese Jyutping, please? E.g.

我住喺香港。

ngo⁵ zyu⁶ hai² hoeng¹ gong².

I live in Hong Kong.

currently capitalises "Ngo5". @Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

 Done —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

These two texts are not easy to date. Sources that support dates given in the module are

• Wei, Pei-chuan (魏培泉) (2017). 《《列子》的語言與編著年代》 (Language and Linguistics Monograph Series 59). Taipei: Institute of Linguistics, Academia Sinica.
• Phua, Chiew Pheng (2002). Dating the Chapters in Guanzi: Evidence from Historical Linguistics Perspective (Master thesis, Hong Kong University of Science and Techology, Hong Kong). Retrieved from http://repository.ust.hk/ir/Record/1783.1-4843

— This unsigned comment was added by RcAlex36 (talk • contribs) at 15:45, 13 January 2021‎.

@RcAlex36, Justinrleung, 沈澄心 currently there are multiple styles for the reference line being used. Shall we decide on a more uniform one?

Personally I'd suggest a date-author-title style. --Frigoris (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Frigoris: I agree. That would be more consistent with how other templates format this information. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I also added a local variable (?) named circa to format the c. for date. I hope this won't break things (currently only used once).

The style I have in mind is something like this:

c. 91 BCE, Sima Qian, Records of the Grand Historian.

Alternative style, with entire date field in bold (seems to be more consistent with {{Q}}):

c. 91 BCE, Sima Qian, Records of the Grand Historian.

Personally I prefer the latter style, which I came to like when adding quotations to Sanskrit entries (for effect see सरित्#Noun, with quotations expanded)

There's also the choice of whether to include Chinese names/titles beside the English translation/transcriptions. This could lead to heavy & complicated lines though. --Frigoris (talk) 20:09, 6 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I made an edit to this template and Module:zh/data/yue-pron to, for Jyutping, replace the Latin digits ⟨1-9⟩ with Unicode's superscript digits ⟨¹⁻⁹⟩.

Justinrleung reverted me because I didn't discuss it.

Does the bold, revert, discuss (BRD) process not exist here? If it does, then simply not discussing a change is not enough for a revert, there should've been a substantive (i.e. not procedural) reason given. I contribute characters to Unicode, I understand the purpose of the characters ⟨¹⁻⁹⟩, it is a clear improvement to the dictionary to be using them instead so that they appear in user documents when copied. As they are part of the representation of the text, they are necessary for proper plaintext interchange. The case is not like 2nd vs. 2^nd, because both are in common use and there is no possibility of confusion of "nd" with tone marks.

I request reinstatement of both edits. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 22:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Psiĥedelisto: The edit was a relatively large infrastructural edit that should not have been made without discussion. It would introduce inconsistencies since all of our Cantonese pronunciation is formatted with HTML superscripts, not with Unicode superscripts. This includes {{zh-pron}}, {{zh-usex}}, and translation templates like {{t}}. Our Jyutping entries are also at the "normal" digits (e.g. aa1). Also, the change should also not have been made to the data module, which is "raw" data. Formatting (such as converting the digits to Unicode superscripts) should be performed in modules that manipulate the data modules (e.g. MOD:yue-pron) should we do decide to switch over to Unicode superscripts. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: Since the characters exist for plaintext interchange, a Unicode jargon word used to justify the encoding of a character, they are actually part of the data. It is not formatting, in Jyutping orthography there is a distinction drawn between 1 and ¹. This is one of the ways character encodings are decided; for example, see the documents which led to the encoding of numerous superscript letters like ⟨ᶜ⟩, ⟨ᶠ⟩, etc. Those characters exist because there is an orthographic distinction in IPA. This is why we have a ² and a ³ and even a ¯ but not a superscript comma, because the superscript comma is only used to write chemical names, it is not distinct in a language's orthography (that the UTC knows of). However, if you'd like to make the argument that the data remain static for legacy reasons, that's fine, but new Jyutping data should use the correct Unicode characters to clearly mark tones apart from numbers in the text. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 22:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Psiĥedelisto: Official Jyutping documentation does not prescribe superscript for tones; in fact, it is usually written as normal digits. It is a formatting choice that we have decided on here on Wiktionary to use superscript for tones for consistency across varieties and aesthetics. Pinging @Suzukaze-c, RcAlex36, Erutuon for input here. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: That's a good reason for the reversion, thanks. Psiĥedelisto (talk) 23:09, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

I would like to add the following quotation from Classical Chinese literature: 祈父、予王之爪牙。胡轉予于恤、靡所止居。(Translation by James Legge: Minister of war, We are the claws and teeth of the king. Why have you rolled us into this sorrow, So that we have no abiding place?) --Apisite (talk) 10:45, 1 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Try this code in the page 苹果:

• {{zh-x|苹果酸\西瓜|watermelon}}

It becomes this:

• ]

恨国党非蠢即坏 (talk) 16:37, 20 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

On the page for 考背 under an example, it says zhù as the pronunciation of 著 instead of zhe. AmberWing1352 (talk) 04:18, 11 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

To at least @Erminwin:

What about the two following literary works?

• 《大醫精誠》
• 《庭訓格言》

Thanks for looking into them. Apisite (talk) 03:05, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Apisite: Dayi jingcheng 《大醫精誠》 is a chapter 備急千金要方 Beiji qianjin yaofang "Essential Formulas Worth a Thousand in Gold for Emergencies" written by Sun Simiao & published in 652. 《庭訓格言》 (Tingxun Geyan - "Guidelines for Families") is a treatise by Qing Emperor Kangxi. Shouldn't be too hard to code for them.Erminwin (talk) 04:41, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Erminwin: Thanks, now what about Qi Fu? --Apisite (talk) 04:52, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Apisite:: It's a poem in The Classic of Poetry. Just use code 'Shijing'! Erminwin (talk) 04:54, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

https://en.wiktionary.orghttps://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=耶提目&oldid=76846875 : Providing hanzi as the primary text doesn't seem appropriate to me, unless it's a quote from a Chinese study or something. I believe we should use {{ux|dng}} / {{quote|dng}} with Cyrillic in most cases. (pinging @物灵 as well; also; is the text on that entry a quote from an existing work? It is missing attribution.) —Fish bowl (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

The quote is from «Нэнэди гўҗир» (“Grandmother’s tales”) by Мащинxaeвa Фaтимa.

Also, having known your concern on scripts, is it better to create only Cyrillic entries and make soft redirection on Hanzi entries (for convenience since dialectical links are in Hanzi)? But it fails when Dungan and other Sinic languages share a word. 物灵 (talk) 03:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

@物灵, @Fish bowl: According to my sources: краткий дунганско-русский словарь (kratkij dungansko-russkij slovarʹ), orphan in Dungan is етиму (i͡ətimu) (tones: I-I-I), not етим (i͡ətim)

Instead of hard redirects, templatised soft redirects could be used, e.g. # Cyrillic spelling of 耶提目 but I don't know if it's a good idea. Dungan is written only in Cyrillic. I agree with Fish bowl, Dungan quotes should be written in Cyrillic. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

My Dungan–English dictionary gives both етиму (tones: I-I-II) and етим（no tone notations). But the dictionary seems not to be a formal publication.

The quote in «Нэнэди гўҗир» actually spells етим, while in «Ни бусы етиму» by Айша Мансурова, the entire book spells етиму. 物灵 (talk) 04:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Personally I think it makes sense to put borrowings such as this on a Cyrillic entry, while other Sinitic words are "unified into #Chinese". —Fish bowl (talk) 04:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Theknightwho (1) Why does this module have its own nonstandard variety codes instead of just using etym languages? I see that probably some of the varieties don't map to etym languages but IMO there should be etym codes for all such varieties and then we should do a bot run to convert to the etym codes. I can help with that. (2) There are at least three talk pages for {{zh-x}}: Template talk:zh-x, Module talk:zh-usex, Module talk:zh-usex/data. IMO we should merge them into one, probably this one (Module talk:zh-usex), and redirect the other talk pages. Any objections to me doing that? Benwing2 (talk) 01:41, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 I honestly couldn’t tell you - it’s one of the symptoms of the Chinese modules being in their own isolated ecosystem for too long. @Justinrleung, @Kc kennylau or @沈澄心 may know more.

I agree with both of your points, though. Theknightwho (talk) 23:41, 9 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

example: 島歌; @Wpi, kc_kennylau —Fish bowl (talk) 00:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Fish bowl: Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I have edited the module so that now if a "segment" (defined so that one segment has one link) matches the page title, then it is automatically bolded. However, it would be more difficult to implement the second kind of bolding that we have for usages without |simp=y, where the page title within a link also gets bolded (e.g. 乾道), so I have left that out for a later date. In any case, usages where auto bolding does not occur are tracked by Special:WhatLinksHere/Wiktionary:Tracking/zh-usex/no-bold. --kc_kennylau (talk) 14:03, 13 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello,

On the page for 九霄雲外, I tried adding the literal meaning to the quote (which I then copied to 早已), like this:
{{zh-x|他 早已 把 這 事 抛 到 九霄雲外 去 了。|He had forgotten it completely.|lit=He had long since thrown it '''to the highest heavens'''.}}
but all it resulted in was the same as if there were no |lit= parameter.
What is up with this template's dunderhead behavior? 2603:3021:3A96:0:618E:8229:1840:9EC6 16:35, 5 October 2024 (UTC)Reply