Reconstruction talk:Old English/sceadl

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This entry solely exists to back up our etymology of Old English sċēada as being akin to Old Dutch skethila and Old High German skeitila, but this isn't supported by the evidence. The Old Dutch and OHG forms are (feminine) ō-stems, while the OE form is a (masculine) ô-stem; the only similarity is in meaning. Rather than positing a mysterious loss of -l and gender/declension swap, Old English sċeāda is better explained as a deverbal formation in -a from sċēadan (similar to dēma from dēman); it's hardly a large jump from "to part (of hair)" to "the place where the hair parts". If one accepts this etymology, there's no reason to posit the existence of *sċēadl.

Even if one believes that Old English sċeāda really does come from a earlier *sċēadl; it's best to mention it as a possibility on sċeāda rather than give it its own page, because of the uncertainty that surrounds it. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 09:09, 19 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Tentatively keep Delete. Connection to *skaidilu comes from Koebler. See ] (click the word to see more info - disregard the PIE reconstruction ). Etymologiebank also groups sceada with Middle Dutch schēde, scheide, and further groups these two with descendants of *skaidilu ]. It's certainly a dissimilation from *sceadl to sceada, but it's not impossible for a dark l to be morphed into an a and the noun decl to change accordingly. It's also possible there was a Proto-West Germanic *skaidō, *skaidā (the Middle Dutch word, however, means "vagina" rather than "part of the hair/crown of the head") or that the word is a deverbal as stated above, but I believe in this case sceada would mean "that which parts/parter/divider" rather than 'that which is parted'. We're still left with *skaidilu as being the one that makes the most sense. Mentioning it as a possibility is not a bad idea. Deletion of the reconstructions is also not a problem with me. Leasnam (talk) 10:40, 19 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

I don't think the change > (or even > is attested at all (in any language!); if it is from *skaidilu after all, I think we're looking at a grammatical, not phonological process at work (speakers back-forming sċēada to go with the diminutive sċēadel?) As for the semantics of a formation with -a, I posit that the original meaning of sċēada was "top of the head". Therefore the nomen agentis construction makes sense; the sċēada is that which causes the hair to be parted (ġesċēaden); ergo, it is that which sċēat parts the hair.

Despite my etymological quibbles, I don't care as long as the reconstructions are deleted; after all, the link to *skaidilu isn't impossible. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 12:01, 19 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Ok, I've deleted the reconstructions...certainly don't think we need them. I've also updated the etymology at sceada. Leasnam (talk) 11:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC)Reply