Reconstruction talk:Proto-Italic/spektrom

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RFD discussion: October–December 2021

Latest comment: 3 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process (permalink).

It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.

Reconstruction:Proto-Italic/spektrom is now listed as a Proto-Italic ancestor of Latin spectrum. However, I think this must be incorrect, as there is good evidence that Latin spectrum was a neologism invented to translate Greek εἴδωλον (eídōlon). Per Wikipedia: "Catius's spectrum is equivalent to simulacrum in Lucretius, but the term spectrum does not appear again in Latin until the 17th century and must represent Catius's attempt to create a specialized vocabulary" (citing David Sedley's Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom). "The Proto-Indo-European Instrument Noun Suffix *-tlom and its Variants", by Birgit Anette Olsen (1988), gives a fairly comprehensive overview of inherited Latin vocabulary with the suffix *tlom (or any of its variants such as *trom), and does not mention spectrum; furthermore, a Proto-Italic form in *trom is inconsistent with the pattern Olsen identifies for the original distribution of *-tlom vs. *-trom (she says *-trom is found immediately after *s or when the stem contains *r or *l, while *-tlom is expected to occur elsewhere; therefore, *spek- should be followed by the allomorph *tlom, which we do in fact find as the source of the more frequent word speculum). As the Proto-Italic reconstruction is unsourced and seems to conflict with the information in the sources I mentioned above, can we delete the entry?--Urszag (talk) 08:09, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

See also Wiktionary:Etymology_scriptorium/2021/October#Special:Contributions/2A01:CB05:8B96:E000:8874:6626:412E:1159/64.
Arfrever (talk) 02:28, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
On the brighter side, there's Wiktionary:Information desk/2021/October#Editing's problem... Chuck Entz (talk) 04:51, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply


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