Talk:-geddon
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RFD discussion: June–October 2020
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-geddon#english seems like it is just a common portmaneuau component, rather than bona fide noun forming suffix. All listed attestations are poorly/sparsely used, which definitely suggests this term is more of an ad-hoc conversational utility than an independent linguistic lemma. Achierius (talk) 03:26, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. All words using it are portmanteaus of Armageddon, and can be listed as derived terms there. This ain't a suffix. DonnanZ (talk) 08:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- How does it differ from -gate? Is that a suffix? Or are all words using it portmanteaus of Watergate? —Mahāgaja · talk 10:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- The difference with -gate is dictionary recognition, perhaps because it is better known than -geddon, which I can't find in Oxford. If it can be found in other reputable dictionaries, keeping it can be considered. DonnanZ (talk) 11:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- I do query Etymology 2 of -gate though (in place names), which probably come straight from gate. A tollgate or gate in a town wall are sources I have come across. DonnanZ (talk) 11:40, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Probably in some placenames in Scotland and Northern England it's from gate² “street, lane”. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- That certainly applies to some streets up north, but there can also be terrible corruptions - Bathgate, according to a book I have, comes from Cumbric badd + ceto- ("boat wood"), recorded as Batket c1160, definitely not from bath + gate! DonnanZ (talk) 15:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- "boar wood" actually, I misread it. DonnanZ (talk) 09:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
- That certainly applies to some streets up north, but there can also be terrible corruptions - Bathgate, according to a book I have, comes from Cumbric badd + ceto- ("boat wood"), recorded as Batket c1160, definitely not from bath + gate! DonnanZ (talk) 15:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Probably in some placenames in Scotland and Northern England it's from gate² “street, lane”. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- The main difference is that -gate is used by people who don't seem to be referring to Watergate. You still have combinations like "carmageddon" that show awareness of the word "Armageddon". Chuck Entz (talk) 03:17, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
- How does it differ from -gate? Is that a suffix? Or are all words using it portmanteaus of Watergate? —Mahāgaja · talk 10:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Abstain
Delete. Words built on this should be indicated as— SGconlaw (talk) 11:57, 22 June 2020 (UTC){{blend|en|XYZ|Armageddon}}. - Abstain
Delete. It's not productive enough to be considered a suffix like -gate.There is also carmageddon used to refer to the consequences of closing a major highway, possibly limited to Southern California. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 16:08, 22 June 2020 (UTC) - Keep. There's a point at which a word is used enough to construct portmanteaus that it creates a productive suffix. This is not as popular as -gate, but it's crossed that threshold. Coronageddon appears robustly attestable. Then there's a thousand nonce words like potatogeddon, which while not independently attestable by our standards, still exist. Not every iteration of -ception is independently attestable, but the fact it exists as a productive suffix is. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 19:15, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per WaN. @Sgconlaw, Vox Sciurorum, I encourage you to look at the evidence of productivity of this suffix. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:51, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: Struck through delete to abstain instead. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 10:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: I also think I don't know enough on the subject. Abstaining. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:30, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: Struck through delete to abstain instead. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 10:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per the above. There is also a band called Hairmageddon, and an annual haunted house in Tampa, Florida, called Scream-A-Geddon. The term has become imbued with meaning as a suffix. bd2412 T 04:11, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Also, per the Daily Mail and others, "spermageddon". bd2412 T 04:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- @BD2412: Your example "Hairmageddon" supports -mageddon (and not -geddon), so why did you vote to delete that one? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:49, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Because -ma- exists as an infix, so Hairmageddon would be hair -ma- -geddon. bd2412 T 05:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- The -ma- infix is etymologically distinct from the -mageddon suffix, though. -ma- is a nonsense syllable arbitrarily inserted into words for humourous effect (edumacation, saxomaphone), whereas -mageddon is formed by shaving off the first syllable of Armageddon so that it preserves syllabicity when attached to a one-syllable noun. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 08:33, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- I still think that the actual productive portion of the term is just "-geddon", and the rest is just adjustment to get to that portion. bd2412 T 17:27, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- FWIW, comparing google:"suffix mageddon" to google:"suffix geddon", I find more people (including the editors at MacMillan Dictionary) talking about -mageddon as a suffix than -geddon (although there are a few of the latter, including a bar journal article, whose examples look more like blends, however). Meh. - -sche (discuss) 18:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Words You Should Know 2013 has an entry for -geddon, and also lists a few more examples. The book also considers -pocalypse a suffix. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 19:16, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- I have created -pocalypse, with citations to "gunpocalypse", "cookiepocalypse", and, of course, "Trumpocalypse" (though the last one could also be interpreted as an "-ocalypse"). bd2412 T 21:11, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- On second thought, I have removed "Trumpocalypse" in favor of an earlier citation for "foodpocalypse". bd2412 T 21:17, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Words You Should Know 2013 has an entry for -geddon, and also lists a few more examples. The book also considers -pocalypse a suffix. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 19:16, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- FWIW, comparing google:"suffix mageddon" to google:"suffix geddon", I find more people (including the editors at MacMillan Dictionary) talking about -mageddon as a suffix than -geddon (although there are a few of the latter, including a bar journal article, whose examples look more like blends, however). Meh. - -sche (discuss) 18:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- I still think that the actual productive portion of the term is just "-geddon", and the rest is just adjustment to get to that portion. bd2412 T 17:27, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- The -ma- infix is etymologically distinct from the -mageddon suffix, though. -ma- is a nonsense syllable arbitrarily inserted into words for humourous effect (edumacation, saxomaphone), whereas -mageddon is formed by shaving off the first syllable of Armageddon so that it preserves syllabicity when attached to a one-syllable noun. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 08:33, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Because -ma- exists as an infix, so Hairmageddon would be hair -ma- -geddon. bd2412 T 05:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- @BD2412: Your example "Hairmageddon" supports -mageddon (and not -geddon), so why did you vote to delete that one? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:49, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Also, per the Daily Mail and others, "spermageddon". bd2412 T 04:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per WordyAndNerdy and per my rationale above for -mageddon ... anything using -mageddon also uses -geddon. —Soap— 15:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: and 'geddon and geddon are possible words. Purplebackpack89 17:40, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
- Abstain: Not clear to what extent we should document blend/portmanteau formation patterns as suffixes. Multiple dictionaries do have -gate for Watergate-based blends, but we can note that Category:English words suffixed with -gate has 151 items. For Armageddon, the implied quasi-suffixes would include -mageddon and -geddon. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- RFD-kept. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)