I think "instead of" should be separated from "exept for". Just as the example demonstrates, that is not the same meaning. And perhaps the meanings should not just consist of synonyms and the synonyms should get their own section?
91.54.235.199 04:09, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
What meaning(s) of beside are obsolete for besides? In fact, the third meaning of beside reads "Besides; in addition to." --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:50, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
The entry of apart from says besides is one of its synonyms, is it right? --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Besides is inclusive, whereas except is exclusive, so that Besides Larry, we'll invite John, Jake, and Rene means that Larry is also invited. --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:35, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Page 593 of the CambridgeGEL reads
i) a. Kim too resigned. b. Only Kim resigned. ii) a. “Kim resigned” b. “Kim resigned” iii) a. “Someone besides Kim resigned” b. “No one except Kim resigned.” Both and entail that Kim resigned: the obvious difference between additive too and restrictive only is shown in . But there is also a difference with respect to the status of the component propositions given in . We saw that with only the main assertion is , with being backgrounded. With too, however, it is that is the main assertion, and that is backgrounded. And in fact (unlike ) is not an entailment, not a truth condition, but merely a conventional implicature. The only scenario in which can be false is one where Kim didn’t resign. To see more easily that this is so, consider a situation in the future. You say Pat will sign the cheque and I respond Kim too will sign it. And suppose that in fact Pat does not sign, and only Kim does so: it is clear that the prediction I made will be judged to have turned out to be true, not false. Correlating with this is a difference with respect to negation. We have seen that negating affects : Not only Kim resigned says that there was someone else besides Kim who resigned. But we can’t negate so as to cancel , while leaving intact. ∗Not Kim too resigned is ungrammatical, and Kim too didn’t resign has too outside the scope of negation, so that the two components are “Kim didn’t resign” and “Someone besides Kim didn’t resign”.
Also, "everybody" is a universal quantifier: http://www.glottopedia.org/index.php/Negative_polarity_item --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:28, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
____
@Backinstadiums, Equinox: Let me jump into the fray... This, from Merriam-Webster:
From my own lexicon:
So, I would interpret "Besides Larry, we'll invite John, Jake, and Rene" to mean that Larry is also invited according to M-W #2 and my definition #2. Prescriptively, I'd render it instead as "We'll invite John, Jake, and Rene besides Larry," which, IMHO, is unequivocally inclusive with "besides" as a periodic adverbial phrase instead of an incipital adverbial phrase. (I don't deem besides to be intrinsically inclusive or exclusive, as you'll notice from how my two definitions' meanings differ pretty radically. And I'll spare you the definitions for those two grammatical terms unless you can't figure them out on your own.)
I would interpret "Everyone besides Larry was invited" to mean Larry was not invited according to M-W #1 and my definition #1, but I wouldn't be nonplussed to learn the opposite had been intended. The prescriptivist in me would rather see it written parenthetically as "Everyone, besides Larry, was invited." In that case I'd be certain Larry wasn't invited. (Sorry I can't give you an audio rendering of how I'd offer the spoken differences between the two.) For me, the key distinction isn't vocab; it's context and prosody.
Re. context, affirmative versus negative content can be a dead giveaway: "Besides January, two other months start with the the letter 'J'" fairly obviously entails besides in an inclusive sense as indicated by the affirmation that ensues. "Besides February, no other month starts with the letter 'F'" pretty obviously entails besides in an exclusive sense as indicated by the negation that ensues. --Kent Dominic (talk) 09:10, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
P.S. I 100% agree that Equinox is audacious. Nonetheless, I'd sooner rely on his instincts and ability than on OED's. He's not right 100% of the time (esp. when he disagrees with me!) but I'd say he's more sensible than OED, whose editors need plainspoken English remediation to cure them of inbred linguisticitis and ipse dixital diarrhea. --Kent Dominic (talk) 09:26, 2 June 2021 (UTC)