Hello, you have come here looking for the meaning of the word Talk:cothromas. In DICTIOUS you will not only get to know all the dictionary meanings for the word Talk:cothromas, but we will also tell you about its etymology, its characteristics and you will know how to say Talk:cothromas in singular and plural. Everything you need to know about the word Talk:cothromas you have here. The definition of the word Talk:cothromas will help you to be more precise and correct when speaking or writing your texts. Knowing the definition ofTalk:cothromas, as well as those of other words, enriches your vocabulary and provides you with more and better linguistic resources.
RFV
Latest comment: 12 years ago16 comments4 people in discussion
Google books is hardly the place to be looking for words in Irish. If you look on regular Google and add the word "bhfuil" to filter out dictionary entries and the like, you find lots of uses of the word, which incidentally is listed in dictionaries as far back as Dinneen. —Angr16:45, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Then the question is what are the durably archived sources of Irish quotations, and whether you would care to provide three links to these quotations. So please, if you do not want to copy and format attesting quotations to cothromas, at least provide three hyperlinks to them. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:36, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
The durably archived sources of Irish quotations are to be found in libraries, not on the Internet. Same as with all languages whose Web presence is minimal. —Angr17:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
But "well documented on the Internet" does not mean "well documented in what Wiktionary considers 'durably archived sources' on the Internet". I doubt if any of the languages on that list besides English and German are well documented in durably archived sources on the Internet. Our definition of "durably archived" basically requires real research of real dead-tree books for almost all languages besides those two. Also, WT:CFI says terms that have "clearly widespread use" don't need the 3 citations, and I think over 10,000 uses on websites--even those not considered "durably archived"--indicates clearly widespread use. For example, here and here are Acts of the Irish Government where the word cothromas is used in the Irish text and the word "equity" is used in the English text. Now, those URLs don't count as "durably archived" by Wiktionary standards because they could change at any time, but the Acts themselves aren't going anywhere and will presumably be findable in the archives of the Irish Government for as long as the state of Ireland exists. So can we list them or not? —Angr18:17, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Or here is a usage of the term cothromas diúltach (RFVed two threads up) in a newspaper article from last February. Again, the URL itself is not considered "durably archived", but the paper edition of the newspaper is. Even if the URL disappears someday, all a person has to do is find a copy of Foinse in the library and look it up. So can that be listed as a citation of the word or not? —Angr18:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Great finds! Yes, laws and legislative acts are durably archived (as discussed here). And yes, if the newspaper has appeared in print, it can be cited just fine... it's no different than citing the Google Books copy rather than a 3D paper copy of a book, AFAICT. :) - -sche(discuss)18:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
It does say on that page "This page may be modified through general consensus." The best way to cite this might be to argue to remove it from Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion/Well documented languages. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:58, 19 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Re: "I doubt if any of the languages on that list besides English and German are well documented in durably archived sources on the Internet": I beg to differ. From my experience, I have found almost all Czech words that I came across attested in Google books. Czech is a language with approximately 12 million native speakers. OTOH, as regards Irish in particular, Wikipedia tells me that "Around the turn of the 20th century, estimates of native speakers ranged from 20,000 to 80,000 people". --Dan Polansky (talk) 21:13, 21 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
I was exaggerating when I said only English and German, but in fact there is very little Irish at Google Books. There is enough Modern Irish literature published that it should almost always be possible to find 3 cites for any given lemma, but it may not always be possible to find those cites on line. Technical terms like these can probably be found, at the very least, in Irish-language textbooks, but the contents of those textbooks are probably not readily available on the Web. —Angr21:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Well, google books:"bhfuil" gets less than 66,000 hits, and that's a form of the verb "to be" and thus an extremely common word in Irish. (It's also peculiarly enough spelled that all hits for will be in Irish and not in any other language.) I agree that Embryomystic adds too many "dictionary words" that have very little attestable usage, though I don't agree that they are "alleged Irish" or "would-be Irish". And cothromas, which has been attested in various spellings since the 9th century AD, is definitely not "alleged Irish". —Angr22:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
While I agree with Mglovesfun that the best way to cite terms like this may be to remove Irish (and Welsh?) from the list of well-attested-online languages, I think I've cited this the old-fashioned way. - -sche(discuss)01:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
