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How do you change the pronunciation without changing the spelling for the hyphenation? E.g. "absido" is pronounced /apsido/, but if you enter that, it changes the hyphenation to ap-si-do. (Please ping.) kwami (talk) 09:28, 8 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
- Should be /ab'sido/ for standard Esperanto. —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:20, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
- According to the Plena Analiza Gramatiko, it's /apsido/. kwami (talk) 05:09, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
- Hey! I looked into Plena Analiza Gramatiko.
Kiam senvoĉa konsonanto staras tuj antaŭ voĉa konsonanto, multaj emas voĉigi ĝin: akvo → “agvo”, okdek → “ogdek”. Kaj inverse, kiam voĉa konsonanto staras antaŭ senvoĉa, multaj emas senvoĉigi ĝin: subtaso → “suptaso”, absolute → “apsolute”. Tiaj ŝanĝoj principe neniam estas regulaj, sed estas ofte tolerataj en la praktiko, se ili ne kaŭzas miskomprenojn.- When a voiceless consonant stands immediately before a voiced consonant, many tend to voicing it: akvo → “agvo”, okdek → “ogdek”. And vice versa, when a voiced consonant stands in front of a voiceless one, many tend to devoice it: subtaso → “suptaso”, absolute → “apsolute”. Such changes in principle are never regular, but are often tolerated in practice if they do not cause misunderstandings.
So it looks to me that we probably should extend this template to be able to write “/ab'sido/ and (standard), (many speakers)”. And it seems like we can do it automatically. What do you think? Enzet (talk) 11:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)Reply
- @User:Enzet Yes, it would be best if it were automated.
- I think the order should be reversed, though.
- K and W say that the change is 'inevitable' in normal speech.
- Only in very careful speech would the non-assimilated form occur as spelling-pronunciations, or among people from a few language backgrounds like English where mixed-voiced sequences are possible.
- Also, the pronunciations should both be between slashes, /ap'sido/ - /ab'sido/, as this is a phonemic distinction. kwami (talk) 07:48, 28 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Can someone do so this template will also add categories for number of syllables?
Maybe something similar to Italian it-IPA, for example for cribro it adds these categories:
- Category:Rhymes:Italian/ibro (We add this one already)
- Category:Rhymes:Italian/ibro/2 syllables
- Category:Italian 2-syllable words
I think it's possible and not hard to do for Esperanto, as 1 vowel always equals to 1 syllable.
If there's multiple words (Entry contains space) then I think it just shouldn't add Rhymes FitikWasTaken (talk) 16:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
- Rhymes should also be disabled if the entry contains a hyphen at the end, i.e. is a prefix or an interfix. 91.94.98.195 12:45, 27 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
- We need to get rid of 'interfix'. Esperanto doesn't have those, unless you count word endings such as -o being retained in the middle of a compound word. What we call 'interfixes' are just suffixes. kwami (talk) 07:58, 28 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
- I also just realised that not all suffixes have two syllables (i.e. they can't rhyme with anything else), so perhaps this should be detected as well? Or at least the rhyme pages of those should have a note about it, maybe... 83.28.247.254 03:24, 29 April 2025 (UTC)Reply
- Should suffixes be included into rhymes? I think not as it does not form a meaningful word on its own. It cannot be used in a sentence. TranqyPoo (talk) 00:37, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
- the point of rhymes is to make verse, and for that you can productively use suffixes, so i think that's fine. apart from the grammatical endings, only a couple suffixes don't take stress, so we could use a manual override for the exceptions. kwami (talk) 01:18, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
When using the template on a suffix term, the IPA portion only shows //>. As a workaround, I am manually inputting the suffix into the template without the preceding -, like: {{eo-IPA|ano}}. See: -ona TranqyPoo (talk) 22:24, 24 July 2025 (UTC)Reply
- note you need a grammatical ending for the suffix to have a rhyme. also, we can't tell whether or not it's stressed, so if it's just the bare suffix, we shouldn't show ipa, rhymes or hyphenation. even a sound file would be dubious, because the pronunciation will depend upon syllabification.
- also, prefixes cannot have rhymes, and if they end in a consonant, we can't determine syllabification.
{{eo-IPA}} only works when we have the stressed vowel and everything that follows kwami (talk) 21:06, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
- @TranqyPoo, could you revert yourself where you added the template to prefixes and bare suffixes that don't have rhymes? i made a start, but there are a lot of them. kwami (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
- yes, i think the template is fine for -ingo, but it doesn't make sense with -ing-. kwami (talk) 23:27, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
- It is done. There were only 2 edits of mine that meet your request criteria. Thank you for explaining the reasoning for your reverts! TranqyPoo (talk) 23:31, 7 August 2025 (UTC)Reply