User talk:Atitarev/2020/2014-2015

You have made a roll back of my edits: . I had started a discussion on bear parlour about it. Please take part in that discussion. I can understand you will want to roll back the headline but why also my definition and example on use of ma? Kinamand (talk) 17:30, 1 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Я надеюсь что ты заметил что я передвинул эту страницу. --WikiTiki89 20:34, 3 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Я сказал в edit summary "This is not what the talk namespace is for. If you want to preserve the entry in case of re-creation, do so in your user space: User:Atitarev/викифицировать." Ты это не видел? --WikiTiki89 23:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Just letting you know I corrected the Mandarin translation for this one. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:07, 7 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I have split your translation into lemmas and added a shorter version, which also has an interwiki link. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:13, 7 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, as you may have noticed I've added support for all of the parts of speech and added automatic transliteration. One thing is different because it was harder to reproduce in the module, and somebody who knows more maybe should work on them: instead of e.g. "infinitive 짊어지어 or 짊어져", it displays "infinitive 짊어지어, infinitive 짊어져".

The automatic transliteration has hyphens between syllables, and the manual romanizations (that I've seen) do not, and I don't know if the hyphens should be stripped or what.

At this point I would start beta testing by replacing templates with calls to this module while watching for bugs but I thought it more prudent to stop here until everybody is on board and knows what's going on. It's still missing the proposed changes for 하다-verbs, but besides that, it is complete (I think) and (probably) works. Haplogy (話) 02:16, 8 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Just letting you know I corrected your Mandarin translation here (母乳 is breastmilk not breastfeeding). ---> Tooironic (talk) 03:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Какого рода рыба-кит (ryba-kit)? Конечно по отдельности, рыба (ryba) — женского, а кит (kit) — мужского. --WikiTiki89 16:41, 11 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Женского. Обычно по первой части, как кресло-качалка--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:59, 11 January 2014 (UTCVladio (talk) 07:22, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Anatoli, род слова "рыба-кит" мужской, как написано в сказке: Поперек его лежит Чудо-юдо рыба-кит; Десять лет уж он страдает...Vladio (talk) 07:22, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Я думал, это как в немецком Mädchen - грамматически среднего рода, но когда говорят о девушке, то используют sie, а не es, если это не очень маленькая девочка. Да, спасибо, подтвердил, что это мужской род, исправлю. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:33, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Я когда искал цитаты, находил и мужского и женского. Но мне тогда казалось что женский чаще исползывается, но может быть и не так. --WikiTiki89 15:51, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Если используется как женский, то надо добавить "g2=f-an". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 19:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hello. Long time no contact, drug moj. I wonder if you can make a template for adverbial present verb forms? For example {{past passive participle of|VERB|lang=????}} for past passive participle verbs? Thank you. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 10:46, 12 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

예, 오랜만이야, 친구 :) It's there, you can model on чи́танный (čítannyj). I think it will be possible to generate inflected forms in an accelerated way and the bot will be able to make them much quicker. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you very much. In a casual conversation between two people, you can say 그래, 응, or 그럼 instead of 예. I feel very uncomfortable that Colloquial Korean is extremely too different from Standard Korean. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 14:19, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, you shouldn't feel uncomfortable :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 19:34, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

— — 18:47, 15 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Did I? Oh fuck, have you deleted it? :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Of course not lol. Lason pula mea de CodeCat. — — 03:05, 16 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

It was more of a negative example... There can be millions of these, eg. 西紅柿炒黃瓜, 黃瓜炒肉, 肉炒蘑菇, 蘑菇炒魷魚, 魷魚炒芹菜, 芹菜炒木耳, 木耳炒山藥...... But anyway. Wyang (talk) 03:43, 17 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I understand what you mean, I just look differently at this. Look how many English and Japanese dishes we store in Wiktionary compared to Chinese, many of which are multi-word terms. Also, as a traveler, I'd like to make a life a bit easier for those who try to unscramble foreign language menus, especially with common, atomic food items. I've got both 番茄炒蛋 and 西红柿炒鸡蛋 on my dictionaries, anyway. You can, of course, RFD them ... BTW, I didn't create them out of spite or something. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:52, 17 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Привет? Можно спасить?

1. Эта фраза - правильная? -> Я плохо говорю по-руски, но учусь много(?).

2. Когда-нибудь много украинцы прийдут в Чеджу(?).

Концом, эти дни я учусь французский(^^). --Russ (talk) 21:11, 18 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Конечно можно!

Привет! Правильно будет "спросить".

1. Я плохо говорю по-русски, но много учусь.

2. Когда-нибудь много украинцев приедут в Чеджу. "Придут" если они придут пешком, не на самолёте, поезде или машине.

3. И ещё/и последнее, в последнее время я учу французский (язык).

Удачи! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:06, 18 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Большое спасибо(^^). До свидания(^^). --Russ (talk) 00:45, 19 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Am I going crazy, or does that pronunciation clip sound like zhànshēng? ---> Tooironic (talk) 22:30, 19 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think she's got a bit of a southern accent (Taiwanese?) but she pronounces the first and the second initial identically, it's closer to "zh" than "sh" but not the way Beijingers would speak, IMHO.

BTW, here's a source for new vocabulary to add - Appendix:Mandarin Frequency lists, apart from HSK. There are some duplicated rows and pinyin is either Taiwanese pronunciation or wrong in some cases (also wrong capitalisation, missing ', etc.). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:58, 19 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Did you use some kind of script to create this entry? If so, can you tell me which? —CodeCat 00:54, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I used Ruakh's User:Ruakh/Tbot.js, which is in my User:Atitarev/common.js. It creates entries from translations. It works better with Russian, by my request but for Japanese I need to tweak the entry a lot. For accelerated entry creation, I have started using a bunch of good templates in User:Atitarev/New Entry templates, including Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, created by User:Wyang. Template:cmn-new (a newer version of Template:cmn new) works the best but seems to have a few flaws, which I either fix manually (PoS are not all covered) or ignore and remove (IPA for erhua). I had some issues with the Korean template but I will test more and give feedback. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for letting me know. The script used Module:language utilities, which I'm trying to orphan. I fixed it now. —CodeCat 01:10, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I just noticed that currently, hanja proper nouns are not placed in Category:Korean proper nouns. It's a bug in the module, but to know how to fix it, it has to be decided if a Korean proper noun in hanja such as 太平洋 should be in Category:Korean proper nouns or Category:Korean proper nouns in Han script or both. What do you think? Haplogy (話) 01:47, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'd say in both, if possible. Ideally, other PoS in Hanja should be in both cats, sorted by hangeul. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm trying to make all transliteration modules invoked either through {{xlit}}, or if it's in a module, through Module:languages#transliterate. Could you help me track down all cases where templates or modules directly call the transliteration module? —CodeCat 17:59, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

It seems complicated to me, what you're doing. I would do advanced search in templates and modules by some keywords and "pages that link to" using template and module namespaces. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I tried that, but it doesn't seem to find anything. —CodeCat 23:34, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I can suggest to check headword and declension templates for the following languages: Armenian, Georgian, Mongolian, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tajik, Adyghe, Bashkir, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Russian, Sinhalese, Bulgarian. Perhaps it's better to check with some editors to see if they are willing to check templates they work with. Sorry for not being very helpful. :) I hate working with too many templates at a time, I prefer to work with words and phrases. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:44, 20 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

@CodeCat, why can't you just search the dumps for all modules that appear as translit modules in Module:languages? --WikiTiki89 06:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to make this entry a soft redirect for 鵜鶘, could you do it for me? I've forgotten what the script was. Cheers. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:23, 23 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

What I mean is an "alternative form" entry. Thanks. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:23, 23 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done. Please take a look. I've changed 鵜鶘 and the simp variants of both as well. Please take a look. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:31, 23 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, when creating multi-component words you should decompose characters in hanzi-box by component of compound, not by character. eg. 八卦掌. You can use |type=... (|type=21 in this case) in Template:cmn-new to achieve this. Wyang (talk) 07:03, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Do you mean like this: {{zh-hanzi|八卦掌}}? I usually do but I missed this one. I don't the compound types, could you document them? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:09, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

It is in Template:cmn-new#Additional parameters. Wyang (talk) 07:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I can only see |type=21,12,22,211,112 but I don't know their meanings. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:13, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have added some examples to that page. Wyang (talk) 07:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Could you find a quote for this, and add IPA (if anyone even ever says it out loud)? It's nominated for FWOTD. —CodeCat 01:53, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Also, the Latin script spelling is nominated for RFV, so would you be able to find citations of it in running Russian-language text? —CodeCat 01:55, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've edited лытдыбр as requested but it's harder to add much useful to lytdybr. There are a few mentions but little uses. It's used in LJ but I can't find anything in Google books. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:07, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Google Groups has tons of hits for the Latin spelling, some of which would make good citations. But I'm not very good at telling which ones are actually Usenet and which ones aren't. --WikiTiki89 03:22, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I thought we can only use Google books, not Google groups for valid citations? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:23, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

We can use Usenet, which is archived by Google Groups. But not everything on Google Groups is Usenet. --WikiTiki89 03:29, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Feel free to add something. I'm not very familiar with Usenet. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:08, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Neither am I, that's the problem. --WikiTiki89 17:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Would it be possible to create a new part of speech category for "attributive nouns", e.g. 公共, 食用, etc.? They are not really adjectives per se... ---> Tooironic (talk) 11:05, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree but it has to be discussed in BP, I think --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:08, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Japanese has adjectival nouns (categorised as nouns), see 便利. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:02, 26 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

В песне Владимира Высоцкого «Честь шахматной короны» (текст; ютюб: ч.1, ч.2), не понимаешь ли ты, почему Высоцкий несколько раз (Бобби) Фишера называет «Шифером»? --WikiTiki89 20:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Он просто обзывает Фишера, совершенно по-детски, на мой взгляд. «Фишер» звучит почти как «шифер» (шиферные крыши очень распространены в России). Если бы мальчик с такой фамилией учился в русской школе, ему бы, скорее всего, дали такую кличку. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 21:59, 28 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Понятно. Я думал, что может быть там был какой-то более глубокий смысл. --WikiTiki89 23:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

What makes you think this is Taiwanese Mandarin? I've heard Mainlanders use it many times to describe op shops. ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:24, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree it's not limited to Taiwan. Check the edit history, mate, the last edit is Wyang (talk • contribs)'s. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:26, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please look at Category:Pages with script errors. There are a few pages where Malayalam translations are apparently causing Module:ml-translit to choke.Chuck Entz (talk) 03:52, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I was hoping someone might fix the module, so I left it with errors intentionally. Since nobody does, I've taken it out from Module:languages/data2 for now. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:57, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think I fixed at least some errors. Can you stop with the shotgun debugging? It is not helping. Keφr 07:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

OK, thanks for fixing the problems. Which part did annoy you? Adding the modules to Module:languages/data2 or adding larger passages for testing? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hoping to fix a module without first understanding the problem. You added code which would set c and d to empty strings if they were ever nil, to avoid error when concatenating them. But c and d were never themselves concatenated; what was concatenated were the results of looking up the consonant and diacritic tables with keys c and d. And some table keys which could be looked up were missing. Never mind c and d were never nil. And instead of modifying the substitution pattern to find visarga-marked consonants, you added code to find them after the bare consonant has already been transliterated. Keφr 08:11, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I stuffed it up. Thanks for fixing. You're under no obligation to help, though. If you're not available or you get irritated by other people's mistakes, just don't do it, I won't approach you. I don't want to be told off. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. On Talk:еслибы, an IP has questioned whether or not еслибы is a valid spelling. Do you know? Ngram data suggests that it was used in the past but may be {{cx|now|rare}} or {{cx|dated}} / {{cx|archaic}}. - -sche (discuss) 06:20, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Just for some added reference, here's an Ngram with all of the variants. --WikiTiki89 06:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

It's a common misspelling, at least in the modern Russian. Particle бы (by) is often erroneously attached to the preceding word as it bears no stress and can be abbreviated to б (b) and there are words where it is attached. Dostoyevsky used it spelled solid, so some other words and other authors. I will look more closely when I get to my desktop but I would mark it as old spelling of если бы (jesli by). Modern grammarians would definitely frown at such a form. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:46, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm trying to add pǔpiàn as a common Taiwan variant pronunciation, can you help me? ---> Tooironic (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Done. What do you think? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:49, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is there a way to integrate that information into the Pronunciation header? Because technically I don't think it can be considered a Usage note per se. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:45, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Also, if you have time, would you mind combining Category:cmn:Variant_Pronunciations_in_traditional_script, Category:cmn:Variant_Pronunciations_in_simplified_script and Category:cmn:Variant_Pronunciations? Plus I think the "P" should not be capitalised, right? ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Fixing categories is quite time-consuming. I don't know why you still use in_traditional_script/in_simplified_script suffixes. We just need to phase them out and stop using them, fix entries we edit. I have requested a bot job but nobody has done it yet. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

醫務. More to come. ---> Tooironic (talk) 03:17, 6 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

對外. ---> Tooironic (talk) 10:35, 8 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Carl. I agree about 對外, not 醫務, which is just a noun. Not sure if you read my responses on my talk page but you're probably better off posting here. That discussion is not going anywhere. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, you might find this useful - Template:ja-new. Cheers, Wyang (talk) 00:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Beautiful! I'll test it and let you know if there are any major issues. Why do you have k= with hangeul examples? Is this to be used inside Japanese entries or was it meant for Korean and you left it there by mistake? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:25, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Oh, I see. You kill two birds with one stone with this revision. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:27, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes. (out of laziness :)) Wyang (talk) 00:28, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Great that you have motivation to develop such templates. Do you feel interest in improving the way we work with Thai or any other abugida scripts? Lao or Khmer would be easier and they seem more predictable and regular but I'm more familiar with Thai and I'm planning to brush it up. Burmese script is a bit too hard, would be great if we had modules/templates to transliterate those (at least the predictable pronunciation) and have accelerated creation. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have interest in this - although I am more familiar with Burmese (as a result of the closer affinity with Chinese) than Thai, Lao or Khmer. It shouldn't be too hard to autotransliterate these, but I would need to brush up my knowledge of these scripts beforehand. Also, the Korean templates and modules need an overhaul like Japanese. There is too much redundancy at present. Wyang (talk) 01:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Wyang Sorry, there's one more case at Module:PinyinBopo-convert/testcases - hyphens are not uncommon in standard Pinyin. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:13, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Zhuyin doesn't seem to use any other symbols, so I have removed hyphens in the conversion. Wyang (talk) 01:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, that's what I meant too. Dōngnán-Yà = ㄉㄨㄥ ㄋㄢˊ ㄧㄚˋ :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

It does in fact exist as an attributive adjective, but is never used alone (or at least it seems to be the case), either predicatively or as a noun: here and here. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 01:20, 11 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, James, could you change the usage notes at 羅宋湯/罗宋汤, please? In my Pleco dictionary, it did say old transliteration of "Russian". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:24, 11 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Never mind, I'll do it myself, please check. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:26, 11 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Let me know when you need a reset, or if anything is wrong (i.e. entries with translations being listed). Note that entries with translations to be checked are included in the lists. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 01:50, 28 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks a lot! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:00, 28 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

You have left a note in 一目惚れ saying that you would "fix it later". Please fix it now. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:43, 28 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 19:21, 28 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

КосаясьКасательно этого изменения, {{ping}} работает только если ты в том же изменении подписываешься четырьмя ~~~~. --WikiTiki89 05:19, 12 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Спасибо. Я не знал. Ну ничего, если они не появятся, я повторю. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:24, 12 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli. Is there a way to make "alternative forms" entries of 麻痹 for 痲痹 and 痲痺? ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

What is the issue? You can use {{cmn-new}}, copy definitions? These can, in turn, have "alternative forms". I'll make later, if you don't come around. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:19, 17 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hmm, I had a try, take a look. Seems OK but it's not creating an "alternative forms" category though. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:15, 18 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

The categorisation has been removed by @CodeCat, I think. The rationale being "alternative forms" are synonyms, misspellings, regionalisms, erhua, etc. as far as I remember. I don't fully agree but she might be able to explain it better. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:20, 18 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

В отличие от арабского, у иврита есть отличный онлайн словарьчик со всеми гласными: http://www.morfix.co.il/en/. Надеюсь, тебе пригодится. --WikiTiki89 01:22, 19 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Спасибо, но он у меня уже есть в списке: User:Atitarev/Language resources :). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:25, 19 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, could you approve me for using AWB? Neitrāls vārds (talk) 05:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. OK. Where? Could you give me the link? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:36, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I believe that you must make a request for registration as an AWB user here: w:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser. —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:46, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

On second thought, I think you might only have to be added to Wiktionary:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage. An admin will have to do it for you. —Stephen ^(Talk) 06:53, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry for not giving the link right away. It says you're a both an admin and bureaucrat though, –Stephen...? Neitrāls vārds (talk) 07:08, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I have no idea about AWB. I never used it. I am an admin but I may not have the authority to use AWB myself. I don't know. My account doesn't appear on the list. @Stephen G. Brown, could you add both of us, please? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:17, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don’t know much about it either. However, I have added you both. —Stephen ^(Talk) 07:40, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! Neitrāls vārds (talk) 08:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, Stephen. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:08, 20 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• I wonder if you can fix взглядывать. It's not that good.
• As mentioned here, I think there is a good need to have new Perfective Counterpart and Imperfective Counterpart (for example, here). What do you think? The imperfective/perfective distinction is very important in Russian. If it's ok, I want to hear your input on this.

Thank you.--KoreanQuoter (talk) 12:29, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry about the whole change of the header thing. I just want to make things better for the Russian verb forms. Maybe my idea wasn't that good in the long run. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 13:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

No problem. As long as you learn and improve. :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hello. I just wanted to let you know that both Module:sa-translit and Module:yi-translit are ready to be used. Sanskrit does not have any schwa deletion at all, so it functions perfectly well the way it is. DerekWinters (talk) 16:55, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is Module:sa-translit based on IAST? That's the system we use. --Vahag (talk) 18:22, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, it does seem to follow the standard. I have added both to Module:languages/data2. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think you reverted my changes to "official" because you didn't like me changing "football" to "soccer". Did you know there are at least six other football games, five of them played internationally, to which the example does not apply?

In any case, did you realise that you wiped out a quote at the same time? I'm in the habit of making minor changes while I'm adding quotes (my main editting activity) so maybe I'd better stop doing that. ReidAA (talk) 22:25, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. The reversal was 100% accidental, sorry, I didn't even see what I have reverted. I have reverted my own reversal immediately after that, please check the history. Sorry, if you lost something. It means that Wiktionary reversal didn't work. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:33, 23 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I've set up a template which only applies to this pronoun as the accent changes to the first syllable in the nominative and accusative plural. Please let me know if this template is OK and if I could also use it for the same pronoun in Russian and Ukrainian.Vedac13 (talk)

Do you mean this one Template:be-pro-sam? (You could've given me the link). It looks accurate. Perhaps User:CodeCat could check it for quality. You can go ahead and do it for Belarusian and Ukrainian but for Russian, I'd prefer a transliteration function, which is aware of exceptions and transliterates "самого́ "(gen., acc. sg of сам (sam)) as "samovó", not "samogó". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is there a standard for this? I have put the pinyin first in synonym/antonym/see also lists for many years. I did this because if there are multiple entries such as at 魔鬼 and 主義 the user can navigate the list alphabetically. I know it's not perfect, but I don't think it's particularly useful to have the pinyin after the word in brackets. I hope we can reach a compromise on this. ---> Tooironic (talk) 04:44, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I know you've been doing this all the time but I never agreed to it. There's definitely no standard for putting wikified romanisation in front of a native script term in any language. No pinyin at all is a better alternative than the way you do it. Sorry, I can't agree with you.

1. Having {{l}} converts characters to the correct format, defined at one place - MediaWiki:Common.css. 政客 (zhèngkè) is better formatted than 政客 (on some computers the latter will appear as squares)
2. There's no need to wikify and promote pinyin red- or blue-linked, they're not words, as you know. Why "zhèngkè" should be wikified?
3. You can still sort long lists by pinyin (but I don't see why you need sorting). In any case, here's one of the possible sorted alternatives:

Wyang's accelerated creation tool has "syn=" parameter, which will add a formatted synonym. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:00, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Tooironic (pinging you in case you forget to come back again :). Note that your list didn't show traditional forms of 凶煞 and 凶神. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:23, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• Chiming in from the sidelines, as it were --

As a student of Chinese, I would greatly appreciate it if such lists of synonyms could also include some kind of gloss to help me differentiate. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 05:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Glosses are problematic, especially on large lists like this (some can definitely be removed from the above), they may have remote "devil" sense. You can use Perapera Chinese plugin with CEDIC dictionary, which may give some clues. Now that creating Chinese entries has become easy, thanks to User:Wyang we should try to fill those red-links :). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• All right, no worries, I'll follow this new way from now on. Just keep in mind there are hundreds of entries that I have edited this way over the years. We may never get them all standardised without some kind of automated tool. ---> Tooironic (talk) 08:59, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• What if I need to display both tra and sim scripts? How does the script look then? E.g. at 董事. ---> Tooironic (talk) 12:12, 27 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I usually do like this:

• 董事會 / 董事会 (dǒngshìhuì), 董事会 (dǒngshìhuì)

"Or you can do like this:

• 董事會 / 董事会 (dǒngshìhuì) (trad.), 董事会 (dǒngshìhuì) (simp.)

Note that {{l|cmn}} also links to the right language. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:26, 27 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

• • Gotcha, thanks. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

No worries, mate. I personally have no problem if you do just 董事會, 董事会 (dǒngshìhuì) or even without pinyin, {{l|cmn}} is just preferable (Wyang's tool can add formatted synonyms automatically), it's using wikified pinyin I objected to and positioning it at the front. Don't worry about all entries, they will be reformatted eventually, as long as we agree on the correct format going forward. Don't forget about the Unified Chinese vote, starts tomorrow. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Don't you think it's a bit premature to be merging them? The vote hasn't even started yet. —CodeCat 03:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

You must have misunderstood. I messed up categories previously, ending up with Category:Cantonese Mandarin, etc., which don't make sense. Category:Chinese language already existed, I only fixed it partially. If you object, reverse but it's not in a good shape now. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:44, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

There aren't any Mandarin speakers in Canton? —CodeCat 04:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Cantonese is a topolect label, "Cantonese Mandarin" doesn't make sense (Mandarin = 1. Putonghua/Guoyu/Huayu = standard Chinese; 2. or a set of Northern and South-Eastern dalects), "Cantonese Chinese" does make sense. Perhaps I should remove Hong Kong, Guangzhou, etc. as synonyms and leave just Cantonese. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:28, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

But isn't "Cantonese Mandarin" the same kind of thing as "Irish English"? The variety of Mandarin spoken by Cantonese people? —CodeCat 04:31, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

No, Cantonese is a specific name of a topolect of the Chinese language, not a regional name, even if it originated in Canton (Guangzhou city or Guangdong province), cf. with "Norwegian Nynorsk" (not limited to specific regions), it doesn't matter where it's spoken, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken in Malaysaia, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, Canada, etc.. There is to some extent, Hong Kong, Guangzhou type of Mandarin (regional), though. I've taken out synonyms. "Cantonese Chinese" is the right plain category name. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:35, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I know that Cantonese is also a language, Category:Cantonese language. But Irish is a language by itself, and there's also Irish English. In the same way there could be both the Cantonese language, and Mandarin spoken by Cantonese people, right? —CodeCat 04:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

There is no definition of Cantonese Mandarin, though but as I said, there can be, potentially Hong Kong Mandarin, "Cantonese" is reserved, "Guangdong Mandarin" would be better, using the modern name, otherwise, as I said, it doesn't make sense. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hiya. What's the standard way to mark synonyms of different senses, e.g. at 轉行? ---> Tooironic (talk) 12:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done. Pls take a look. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Your inclusion of the final #ifeq statement was causing issues with the formatting of the headline, so I removed it for now. What were you trying to do, just wondering? Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 08:36, 3 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. Thanks. I was trying to fix the sorting tracking category that appeared on a number of entries. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:30, 3 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

No one has discussed changing headers in any language other than Chinese, so you have no consensus/permission to do so. If you've made any changes to Japanese, please stop doing so immediately and undo them at once!! Chuck Entz (talk) 13:51, 3 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm working on converting script templates like {{Cyrl}} to use {{lang}} instead, which has Lua support. It's easy to convert it automatically, but in some cases the language is missing, so the bot can't tell what language to give to {{lang}}. Those are listed here. Would you be able to fix some of those? You'd only have to add a lang= parameter to {{Cyrl}}, or alternative you can convert it straight to {{lang}} if you prefer. —CodeCat 21:31, 12 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Okey. I'll fix them. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:15, 13 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Could you do the rest? I've nominated the script templates for deletion now. —CodeCat 23:09, 18 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The category seems empty. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I have been attempting to create a сам declension template for Ukrainian (https://en.wiktionary.orghttps://dictious.com/en/Template:uk-pro-sam). For some reason the template is not appearing as it should. I've tried a number of variations to make it appear properly - but to no avail. Could you check to see what is missing? Vedac13 (talk)

Well, you need the template you're calling by the template - {{uk-decl-pron}}, it doesn't exist. You can model it on {{be-decl-pron}}. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, AnatoliVedac13 (talk)

Пожалуйста жди хотя бы неделю после закрытия до того, как архивировать дискуссии в WT:RFD и WT:RFV. Я заметил, что ты часто закрываешь и сразу архивируешь. --WikiTiki89 02:33, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Не пойму зачем ждать, если она уже закрыта? Ещё ждать несогласных с закрытием? Каждый, кто закрывает несет ответственность и судит по тому как шла дискуссия. Несогласные, конечно, могут открыть дискуссию снова. Если пользоваться новым инструментом Kephir-а, насколько я понял, то всё делается одновременно - закрытие и архивация. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Надо дать время всем увидеть чем кончилась, особенно тем, кто могут быть несогласны. На странице WT:RFV даже написано сверху: "At least a week after a request has been closed, if no one has objected to its disposition, the request may be archived to the entry's talk-page or to WT:RFVA." --WikiTiki89 03:17, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Хорошо, не буду сразу архивировать. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Мой инструмент не закрвает, только архивирует. Даже и я дал там информацию: "Keep closed discussions unarchived for at least 7 days." — Кефир 10:16, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Понял, спасибо. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:38, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli. Could you please unprotect this template for a while? I'd like to edit it further. Thanks. Wyang (talk) 10:46, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Done. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:56, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for that. I have finished editing now. Wyang (talk) 11:26, 15 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Why did you delete this template? Now none of the links to the appropriate page of the Kangxi dictionary work in thousands of entries. 90.245.20.199 14:29, 16 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry. The template itself looks like an error. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:24, 16 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Have you ever heard of Special:Whatlinkshere? You don't delete a template that's used on 20,000+ pages according to Special:Mostlinkedtemplates. -- Liliana • 20:50, 16 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes. I have, sorry again. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 21:11, 16 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have created entries for Camellia oleifera, tea oil camellia, tea oil plant, oil-seed camellia, and tea oil, based on your (flattering) mention of my name in Chinese requested entries. I am happy to work on any entries for taxonomic names, English "vernacular" names of such taxa, and English true vernacular names not in a one-to-one relationship to a taxon, especially if it helps others with specific needs. Otherwise I usually work on the taxa which have the most uses within the {{taxlink}} template, based on analysis of the XML dump. Sadly I have not been able to work on that for the past 2 months, but should soon get back to it.

Let me know what you need. DCDuring TALK 23:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@DCDuring. Thank you for that! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:56, 20 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I just made бежал. I wonder if you can check to see anything wrong or something. I'm being very cautious about organizing the verb forms in Russian. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:12, 20 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Good job. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:16, 20 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you kindly. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Can you explain what objections you have to my edit? In its current form the Usage notes section doesn't describe usage of the term in the slightest, it just makes an irrelevant remark about politics while ignoring that the term Serbo-Croatian is seldomly used by native speakers and that it is mostly avoided. 78.0.211.21 22:21, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The usage note referred to "native speakers", but it's an English term, so it would be assumed to refer to native English speakers. However, English speakers would have no problem calling it Serbo-Croatian, so the usage note doesn't seem appropriate. It's really the term in Serbo-Croatian itself, i.e. srpskohrvatski, that would warrant such a note. —CodeCat 22:26, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

That doesn't explain why the currently present Usage notes is prefered. 78.0.211.21 22:27, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Why can Holland have a Usage note where it's stated that Dutch can find the term to be offensive? 78.0.211.21 22:29, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's different. "Holland", as an English term, can be used when speaking English to Dutch people, and those Dutch people might consider it offensive. "Serbo-Croatian" could also be considered offensive by one of the Serbo-Croatian speaking people when speaking English to them. But that's relevant to English usage. What people call their own language in their own language is not relevant to English, unless it affects how English speakers speak English. —CodeCat 22:32, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

But that's the entire point. My addition is there to make it obvious for English speakers that native speakers use different terminology. As such, an English speaker speaking to them could potentially offend them. Similar to how a Dutch person from Gelderland might be offended using the word Holland. I still don't see why the current Usage note is relevant to the entry. Can you explain? 78.0.211.21 22:37, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

But in the context of an English word, "native speaker" refers to a native speaker of English. --WikiTiki89 22:37, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes. A native English speaker using the word Serbo-Croatian might offend a speaker of Serbo-Croatian if they use the term Serbo-Croatian. I do not see how that is not relevant. The entry to which I made an analogy (Holland) has a Usage note section for the English word Holland, wherein it is explained that Dutch people might find the usage offensive. Is that also out of place? 78.0.211.21 22:42, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The complaint being made here was that the usage notes referred to "native speakers". As Wikitiki said, in an English language section, that refers to native speakers of English. So the usage note ended up saying that English speakers don't use "Serbo-Croatian" and might be offended, which is obviously not true. It should really be clarified that it's Serbo-Croatian speakers who could be offended. —CodeCat 22:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The usage notes have been edited by me and WikiTiki to address these concerns. I agree with the IP that Wiktionary is not the place to take jabs at people who think the SC lects are distinct languages. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 22:46, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

We see "Serbo-Croatian" in a positive light, which is Wiktionary policy. Frowning upon "Serbo-Croatian" is nationalism (even if it's supported by governments), which was mentioned in the original notes. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:53, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wiktionary does that only for linguistic/practical purposes. But language usage doesn't have to be linguistic or practical, or follow Wiktionary's practice. We shouldn't judge whether people are using words wrong, we should be descriptive here. If people are generally offended if you say they speak Serbo-Croatian, we should say so. It wouldn't do to say they're wrong to be offended, that's not up to us. —CodeCat 22:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The problem is, I think there is no real analysis on what percentage of native speakers consider this term "offensive", they just avoid it and call it "naš jezik" (our language) or similar. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:59, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we need to be that exact about it. From our own personal experiences at Wiktionary, we know that offence will be widespread enough that one would want to be careful in using the term. —CodeCat 23:03, 23 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli, While checking the Belarusian Category page for countries ], I found links to two different pages for Англiя. I think the link to the page including the Ukrainian information for Англiя underneath should be retained, while the other page for Англiя should be deleted.Vedac13 (talk)

I don't get it. А́нглія (Ánhlija) is just one page (both be and uk). It also appears in the categories Category:be:Countries and Category:uk:Countries. Which page should be deleted? It appears only once in both lists. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:43, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Already fixed. — Keφr 11:47, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have added frequency tables in わたし on the Japanese Wiktionary. Do you find them useful also here? — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 11:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think so but could the tables be made expandable? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:57, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Like this?

— TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 12:24, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, Shinji, it's a great and useful table! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:28, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

→ Template:Japanese first-person pronouns. Please improve it as you want. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 12:49, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

• Yes, that is very useful information indeed, thank you Shinji! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:43, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hello Atitarev -- I do not understand your rollback here. Silent Sam is a solid, longtime editor, and his edits were straightforward, reasonable improvements to that page. I think you made a mistake. Respectfully -- · (talk) 22:18, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree with the Talking Point. --WikiTiki89 22:22, 26 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry. It was an accident! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's what I suspected. --WikiTiki89 00:39, 27 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've made a few changes to how Unicode character codes are added in these modules. Now you can use a special u with the character codepoint directly, prefixed with 0x. So there's no need to convert numbers anymore. —CodeCat 20:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank G-d! I assume there's still not easy way to do it in strings though other than "foo" + u(0x1234) + u(0x4321) + "bar". --WikiTiki89 20:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. That's a good change! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:48, 27 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli. Do you know where I can find a list of romanised pronunciations for Wu? Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 02:27, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Good question. If I knew, I would add to 北京#Chinese. Wyang is using WT transliteration (i.e. Wiktionary). I think that's his own invention, he's making it from the sound recordings. He gave me a link with audio recordings in Wu but I don't remember where that discussion is. Well, if we have no standard Wu translit., we should make one?

I think it's a good idea to add various examples in different topolects but if there's nothing available, we shouldn't bust our balls. As long as nothing from the existing stuff (Cantonese, Wu, Min Nan) is lost, we'll deliver on the promise that merging Chinese hasn't caused any damage. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:35, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

So far, I've only seen only IPA or makeshift transliterations of Wu, often without tone indications and inconsistent. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:44, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Right. It would have to be based on one of the dialects though as they do sound distinctively different (especially between Northern and Southern Wu dialect groups). I suggest Shanghainese as it has the most speakers and it's a member of the larger of the two groups. Might also run into issues where two words are homophones in Wu (e.g., 宁愿 (would rather)/人缘 (popularity with other people)) but not in Mandarin and words/characters that have the same pronunciation in two different compounds in Mandarin, but different pronunciations in Wu (e.g., 间 in 房间 (vang gei) and 间谍 (ji deh). The lack of tone is also a concern. Some have claimed that Shanghainese is not tonal. They can't be more wrong. 房 in 房间 shares the same basic phonetic components as 方 in 方块, but suprasegmentally, the two are different. This is a hard one. Maybe I will have a look around for any more established romanisation schemes. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 03:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Homophones are always a problem and they don't have to coincide with Mandarin. Yes, please check, if you can find. You could check with Wyang's findings as well. He may have something automated. See Module:wuu-pron and what links to it. Adding tones may be a hurdle. Note that our Lao transliteration doesn't cater for tones either (it's not shown how consonant classes and other things affect tones of vowels) but a dictionary I use has IPA with tones. Would you say no transliteration at all if tones are not indicated for Wu? Shanghainese should probably be used as prestigious Wu but there are ways to mark any regional accent too. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Atitarev, @Jamesjiao The WT romanisation is a system I invented for Shanghainese. I'd like to document it somewhere, alongwith a fairly systematic introduction of the tone sandhi in Shanghainese. What would be a good place to put it? Wyang (talk) 04:26, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

It depends how big and where used. Wiktionary:About Chinese Wu, Wiktionary:Chinese Wu transliteration or documentation for Module:wuu-pron, I'm not sure. Wiktionary:About Sinitic languages has lots of policies on Chinese (it's getting out-of-date).

BTW, I think all Chinese PoS need sorting, preferably by pint, otherwise, it's too hard to find anything in categories. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:35, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Jamesjiao. I have romanised 禮物/礼物 as "2li veq" as per and Wiktionary:About Chinese/Wu (li2 + meh/veh). Please join adding Wu pronunciations to Chinese entries. Now I know how but there are multiple readings. has audio recordings. Thank you, Wyang for the resources. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:44, 10 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Will indeed. I am familiarising myself with Wyang's romanisation table. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 22:20, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Does this look about right? 刑法. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 22:48, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

To me yes but I made a few mistakes before. (I've added Min Nan, Cantonese, Korean and Vietnamese to the entry) @Wyang, does it look right? My simple approach to Wu transliteration (assume each character has only one reading) is 1. find wu-chinese transliterations, 2. note the tone of the first character, 3. check changes as per Wiktionary:About Chinese Wu document. Sometimes this approach works, sometimes it doesn't. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:38, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I made some modifications to the romanisation. The first character is null initial followed by glide 'y', hence should have 'hh' initial. Second character is a checked-tone character - 'faq'. Wyang (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ah, yes, I haven't checked the edit history. wu-chinese gives "yin fah" but as per Wiktionary:About_Chinese/Wu#Resources initial "y" changes to "hh" and final "h" changes to "q". Question: why is it 3rd tone, if wu-chinese says it's the 1st tone for character 刑? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:56, 11 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

It says it's the 1st MC tone (level - 平). MC level tone can have two consequences in Shanghainese - dark level (1) and light level (3). /ɦ/ is a voiced consonant, hence it is tone 3. Wyang (talk) 00:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please look over this new entry. Thanks. —Michael Z. 2014-04-30 04:00 z

Thanks. I'll add translations and fix word stresses. It's банде́рівець (bandérivecʹ) in Ukrainian and банде́ровец (bandɛ́rovec) in Russian. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:07, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Interesting. In Canada it is always банде́рівець бандері́вець. Any idea how they say it in Lviv? —Michael Z. 2014-04-30 14:55 z

@Mzajac Is that a typo, you stressed it the exact same way. --WikiTiki89 14:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Oops, copy/paste error: бандері́вець is the only way I have heard it pronounced by Ukrainian Canadians and Galicians who left Ukraine during WWII. —Michael Z. 2014-04-30 16:10 z 16:10, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't know how they say it in Lviv but бандері́вець is a possibility in some dialects, due to Polish influences, I only heard банде́рівець and this pronunciation can be confirmed on the web (use quoted stressed string to search). Other Ukrainian words formed the same way are also stressed like this. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:26, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

A blogger insists that -рів-" should be stressed "...Ярош - президент "Тризуба" для бандерівців (наголос на "-рів-"!), а не для всієї України..." here. The comment says "... Yarosh - a president of Tryzub (Trident) for Banderites (stress is on "-рів-"!), not for the whole of Ukraine... "--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Mzajac Do you also say "доля́р" for "dollar" in Canada? Modern Ukrainian is "до́лар". This might explain it. You guys speak older Ukrainian version.--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 21:08, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

They speak Ukrainian v19.4.x while Ukraine has upgraded to v20.1.4. --WikiTiki89 21:22, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's understandable but there were alternative forms in that version too, not necessarily official and wide-spread, as far as I can tell, e.g. класичний/клясичний, блок/бльок, ефір/етер. It's similar to Belarusian Taraškievica orthography, which is used by supporters of this orthography and pronunciation but hasn't gained universal acceptance. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:07, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Apparently, the so-called "Ха́рківський право́пис" was cancelled in 1933 as pro-Polish and nationalistic but is still used in overseas Ukrainian communities. I'll just add that Ukrainian is a dialect-continuum from East to West. At various points in time various accents and pronunciations were favoured. Poltava used to be the base. Now that Eastern Ukraine is very Russified, it's probably Lviv, which is the most distant from Russian and has lots of Polish and local words. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yup, a.k.a. w:Skrypnykivka, but Ukrainian Canadian publishing predates WWI, and the vocabulary is Galician. Post-WWII immigration probably has the most influence on urban Ukrainian in Canada, but the language also has some use from earlier immigrations, for example in rural areas of the Canadian Prairies. We say до́ляр/доля́ри, клясичний, бльок, авто (not машина), кошиківка and відбиванка for баскетбол and волейбол, and I suspect many of our casual words might be considered Lviv slang (кобіта, кнайпа, шинок, батяр). Sometimes surprised that what I assume to be completely Canadian terms are used by Ukrainians, like ка́тедж/ко́тедж (“cottage”), визнесмен (not sure about the spellings). To me, the use of Г for G stands out in standard Ukrainian (мітинг looks unpronounceable, which I would call a демонстрація. We might say either мі́тінґ or сходини for a meeting). —Michael Z. 2014-05-02 01:22 z

Interesting. To me кобі́та (kobíta) is very Galician and a Polonism, most Ukrainians just use жі́нка (žínka). кошикі́вка (košykívka) and відбива́нка (vidbyvánka) are hardly used. As for loanwords from English, there are plenty of them, like коте́дж (kotédž), бізнесме́н (biznesmén), аутсо́рсінг (autsórsinh), дефо́лт (defólt), etc. /g/ is almost lost in Ukrainian but there is some revival but even when words are spelled with "ґ", people would pronounce "г". мі́тинг (mítynh) is a rally, mass demonstration but now also used as a business meeting. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:40, 2 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Кобіта and кнайпа are uncommon slang; кобітки = “chicks”; жінка = “woman,” or colloquially “wife”; пані = “lady.” I wonder if пан/панови, па́ні/пані́, панна/панни are common in standard Uk. Is there a word for Ms./mizz? And of course the washroom is кльо́зет, and привіт may be starting to become as common as сервус. —Michael Z. 2014-05-02 16:48 z

пан, па́ні (indeclinable), панна never got completely out of use and now also official but they're a bit too formal. сервус is regional (West Ukrainian) and кльо́зет is dated (same category as клясичний). клозе́т is used. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:23, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Привет, may I bring this entry to your attention? Если бы вы могли потратить на этом несколько времени (исправить ошибки, добавить произношение), я был бы очень благодарен. --Pyprilescu (talk) 05:59, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done. Adding pronunciation to phrases, especially long one is very cumbersome. People usually look up individual words but I made an exception today. I don't normally work much on the Russian wiki but you can ask them yourself. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:25, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Template:thumbs up Thanks a lot, Anatoli, огромное спасибо! --Pyprilescu (talk) 14:17, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Could you update {{zh-pron}}? It makes a red link unless it has a jyutping reading added to it, or so I noticed. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:06, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Do you mean the red link to Template:Pinyin-IPA? I moved it to Template:cmn-pron with all subtemplates by User:Wyang's request . It seems to have caused some problems. Waiting for his response at Template talk:cmn-pron. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:11, 1 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I trust that you did the right thing, but why did you rollback my edit to 柑橘? I've seen some complaints that Chinese listings are too often unnecessarily segregated with regards to its variants (Cantonese, Mandarin, Min Nan, etc.), but what is the standard? I always thought that Chinese listings were supposed to be this way, looking at most of the other listings. I don't think I've ever seen a Chinese section with a listing that said "regional Cantonese" in a Chinese section, unless it was "Translingual" instead of "Chinese." --WikiWinters (talk) 14:45, 4 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi and welcome. I'd like to refer you to Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2014-04/Unified Chinese, which has changed the policy on Chinese. There are a lot of entries to be converted. As for the implementation, it's the pronunciation section that adds to Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. PoS categories. Context labels are used when, e.g. Cantonese sense is different from standard/common Chinese or when it's used only in that specific variety.

I planned to explain my reversal to you later. Thanks for addressing me directly. BTW, please update your Babel on your user page. For technical questions, please talk to @Wyang but you can observe how entries are done in, e.g. Category:Chinese nouns, which is growing. Among them there are many of those that were Cantonese. When Cantonese, Min Nan, entries are converted and merged, the remaining Mandarin entries will be converted to L2 header Chinese by a bot. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done and  Done. I read the article you referred to me and I added the Babel templates to my page. Tell me if anything else needs to be done and I'll do it. --WikiWinters (talk) 19:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli, could you remind me whether Category:zh:Variant pronunciations or Category:cmn:Variant pronunciations is the correct category for variant pronunciations? Entries like 日期 are in both. And I'd like to clean up entries like 友誼, 因為, 蝸牛, etc. which are in the old category. ---> Tooironic (talk) 10:16, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Honestly, I'm a bit confused myself. We now have new zh categories for most cmn categories but this readings are only applicable for China/Taiwan Mandarin variants. Some Mandarin categories will have to stay after migration. I think they should be in Category:cmn:Variant pronunciations if we're talking about Mandarin variations. @Wyang what do you think? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:04, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Neither. Language-code categories are topical, meaning that Category:zh:Variant pronunciations should contain Chinese words about "variant pronunciations" (which I doubt is useful). What you probably want is something like Category:Chinese variant pronunciations, Category:Mandarin variant pronunciations, Category:Chinese Mandarin variant pronunciations. --WikiTiki89 13:19, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree it should be in Category:Mandarin variant pronunciations or Category:Chinese Mandarin variant pronunciations. I wasn't involved in the original creation of these categories and was confused why we have Category:zh-cn:Variant Pronunciations‎ and Category:zh-tw:Variant Pronunciations‎ (originally "cmn"), which contained the same entries with different mainland China and Taiwanese tone patterns and other differences in pronunciation. Let's see if Wyang responds. There's a lot of entries to move. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:30, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your advise about {{zh-usex}}. it will greatly help me.

I have a question about the new layout for Chinese entries. How to indicate the Simplified / Traditional character and pronouciation associated with a particular definition ? For example like what is done with the characters 累 or 里. Apparently the {{zh-...}} templates don't take pinyin and traditional/simplified argument like the {{cm-...}} templates

Meihouwang (talk) 20:09, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi. Simplified / traditional variants are indicated the same way, using {{zh-hanzi-box}}, not in the header. The pronunciation is indicated only in {{zh-pron}}, also all PoS categorisations happens there. See 茶 (chá). Monosyllabic entries are much more complicated and a few things still need to be discussed and agreed on. Any questions, ask me or User:Wyang. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:22, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

So character with different prononciation will have several {{zh-pron}} ? I am programming a chinsese dictionary and I used to parse Wiktionary data. I stored definition the same way as CC-CEDICT, ordored by Traditional/Simplified/Pinyin (see here for example ]). But there is no standard way to link prononciation to definition in the new Chinese layout. The same for Traditional/Simplified pairs. Meihouwang (talk) 11:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Words/characters with different pronunciations for the same sense and the same SoP would use the same {temp|zh-pron}} and variants would be separated by commas. Toneless endings, erhua have a special parameters, so that those are generated automatically. A different pronunciation, which is also a different sense or different SoP would use a different {{zh-pron}}. Sorry if we caused you problems with your programming. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:51, 27 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The different pronunciations will be included in one {{zh-pron}} usage. See 血液. --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank for your awnser. Does the same apply to {{zh-hanzi-box}}? A different Traditional/Simplified pair with a different sense will use a different {{zh-hanzi-box}} ? Meihouwang (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Since I started working in Special:WantedCategories, there have been a few I left alone because, although I knew they were the result of bad wikitext, I had no idea what to do with the language sections in question. Unless I'm mistaken, the Chinese merger should make it easier to figure out what to do with these entries. In case you want to have a go at them, they're Category:Mandarin hanzis, Category:Min Nan hanzis and Category:Wu hanzis. There may be equivalents for one or two of the other lects, but since they don't really exist, the search can't find them. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 01:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure I understand. Can you give a link to an existing category? Note that single-character (hanzi) entries will be addressed later. Our hands are full with the merger, which affects multicharacter entries first of all. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:05, 12 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

If you click on the links, you'll see that the categories may not exist, but they have entries listed on their creation pages. Those entries contain wikitext with something like {{head|nan|hanzi}} which automatically generates the wikitext ]. What to do with such entries is a part of the whole Chinese merger issue, but if you're concentrating on the multi-character entries, these aren't a priority: although it would be nice to get rid of these misbegotten little critters, they've already been there for a while, so they can wait. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:37, 12 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I see, it's caused by {{head|cmn|hanzi}} type of headers used. Until hanzi entries are properly merged, one thing can be done with a bot, I think. Update all instances of "head|cmn|hanzi" (with nan, wuu, yue, etc. as the language code) to use {{zh-hanzi}} instead. See 茶 (chá), which is better formatted, in my opinion. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:51, 12 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli, I seem to be having a problem when I create a new template - the template link on an entry page doesn't show the template anymore - but when you click the link it goes to the template page. Here is the Ukrainian entry for два as an example. This has happened before with a recently created template.Vedac13 (talk)

It's working now - but it seems to be taking much longer than usual.Vedac13 (talk)

• I made агитировать, укрывать, забояться, гаснуть a while ago. I don't know whether there is a need to fix them. I wonder if you can check them.
• I don't know whether this suggestion is okay or maybe I'm just naive. I think there biaspectual verbs should be respected while editing Russian verb articles.

Thank you --KoreanQuoter (talk) 07:57, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Good job, thanks! I've added IPA, past passive participles where exists and some cosmetic changes. The perfective form забоя́ться (zabojátʹsja) has the sense of beginning of "being afraid", while побоя́ться (pobojátʹsja) is simply a perfective equivalent of

боя́ться (bojátʹsja).

Biaspectual verbs need two conjugation tables, e.g. казни́ть (kaznítʹ). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:40, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't know Russian at all, but their pronunciations are all missing. --kc_kennylau (talk) 08:22, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Not all pronunciations are missing:). While IPA is important for any language, Russian is very phonetic and its pronunciation is mostly predictable with a small number of documented exceptions. One needs to know Russian pronunciation rules, sound changes. Word stress and spelling out "ё" (most adult native writer use "е" instead, which has a different reading) is all one usually needs to pronounce Russian correctly (+ a small number of exceptions, which follow some pattern). --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:40, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you very much, Atitarev. I like to get some "clearances" to make more verb forms for Russian. It might be cumbersome, but this is what I like to do here. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 12:45, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I won't stop you from making verb or noun forms but it would be much more useful for you and for Wiktionary if you work with lemmas - make new word entries, not their forms, which can be found from declension/conjugations tables. It may be more challenging and error-prone but it's better still.

User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ru-a, User:Matthias Buchmeier/en-ru-b, etc. Shows how many red links there are (some translations are bad or SoP). ] (after 2000 has red links as well). Please make some more words, I will help you. You can use to get correct senses, Russian Wiktionary to get grammar info and consult anyone here. IPA is a bonus - the main thing is semantics and grammar, correct basic format, word stress, IMO in any Russian entry. You can make good entries but it's up to you. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:54, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I try to make entries on Russian verbs occasionally. Does it help? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 13:05, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Of course it does. You're welcome to send me a list of words to check. BTW, I've just made another Korean entry - 질량 :) but I'm using accelerated methods. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:09, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

BTW I prefer editing and adding entries on Russian verbs mostly because the Russian verbs in the Korean Wiktionary are usually "pathetically" poor. I try to improve a lot of entries in the Korean Wiktionary and the easiest way to improve them is to focus on the verbs. And it's much easier for me to track my progress if I do it in both Korean and English Wiktionaries. It's my best way despite I am exceptionally busy in real life. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 13:19, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

And it's more useful to add lemma forms with a full conjugation table, rather than individual forms, which are visible in the lemma tables. It's not just Korean Wiktionary, which is poor with Russian verbs. Russian has quite a complicated conjugation and declension systems, so you either have to develop a module like was done here or a large number of templates, learn conjugations and stress patterns/type or add each form manually (like old style templates here). Eg дви́гаете (dvígajete) is a form of дви́гать (dvígatʹ), which has a full conjugation table and "дви́гаете" appears there and can be found through a search. Besides, if someone writes a bot to generate those forms automatically, then you'll see that you wasted your time ... --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:29, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I know I'm wasting my time. But I have to waste my time because the Korean Wiktionary is figuratively dead. Non-active moderators, communication issues, and no activity in adding non-Korean entries besides me. And my main base of operation is the Korean Wiktionary. And I usually contribute once per 1-2 weeks and it's easier to contribute verb forms instead. Of course, I apologize that I'm not being productive. I wish I could help more..... --KoreanQuoter (talk) 13:39, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

You can try exporting {{ru-verb-1-pf}} and {{ru-verb-1-impf}} to the Korean Wiktionary and full verbs, not just inflected forms. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

In Module:languages/data3/c, can you add the Chippewa Language, code ciw, script Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics, code Cans, family alg. Thanks. DerekWinters (talk) 21:00, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Chippewa not a distinct language from Ojibwe, so you should use its code, 'oj'. (Why some of the other varieties of Ojibwe have not also been merged into 'oj', I am not sure... possibly only because no-one has raised the issue, Wiktionary being a work in progress and all.) FYI, this and other language considerations are documented on WT:LANGTREAT. It can be good to check that page when considering a 'missing' code, to see if it has been intentionally excluded. Cheers, - -sche (discuss) 21:32, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

-sche is probably right, I can't comment on Chippewa Language. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

RT Wyang (talk) 23:37, 18 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Here is a little ... er... love-note from a big... fan. ;) Chuck Entz (talk) 00:57, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Zhuyin hasn't been high priority, I might just block him and fix them later. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад)

Probably pointless, since I've seen similar edit comments recently that had to be the same person using another IP. For what it's worth, I find the sheer volume of over-the-top verbal abuse over something as trivial as using slashes with pinyin to be pretty funny. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:20, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

After doing about 200 edits, it appears the Min Nan, Cantonese, Wu etc. pure-hanzi multisyllabic ones have all been dealt with. I'm checking if any of them still contains the topolect heading. Judging from the nil result after scanning about 1/6 of them, I think we can have a celebration prematurely. :) Wyang (talk) 12:45, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yeah! Congratulations! Now, there are many thousands Mandarin terms, some with non-standard pronunciation. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:52, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Here's one word I came across that you could give a Wu transliteration to, 寫真 / 写真. You could find the aforementioned IPA transliteration in its Chinese Wiktionary pages. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

And here's the Wu IPA reading: /ɕiᴀ³³ z̻ə̆ɲ⁴⁴/ --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:54, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Did I get this transliteration right? I guess so. 4xia zen --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 23:35, 24 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm not yet comfortable with transliteration/IPA for Wu/Shanghainese. I'm using scanned dictionary Shanghaihua dacidian sometimes - searching there takes time. Wu mini-dictionary online, the tones are not always right - and I don't always get the right tones when converting. User:Wyang is best to check for this. What is your source, anyway? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:57, 25 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The Chinese language Wiktionary --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

It's 2xia tsen. Wyang (talk) 07:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wyang, I could display both transliterations. Is that okay? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 14:23, 25 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

In this edit (diff) you somehow manged to unintentionally duplicate a large swath of the English section. I did my best to consolidate the duplicates without eliminating the edits that came afterwards, but you might want to check that I didn't wipe out any changes that you actually intended to make. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 17:44, 26 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for fixing this. I don't know what happened there. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Isn't that supposed to be either waa2 or waa6? Or is there a third reading like the one you are using? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 02:32, 31 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Oops. Thanks for spotting. I don't know how it happened. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli. I've created about 100 for start. Please see here and check for possible issues :) --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 23:11, 31 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, Ivan. All entries look good but I don't know what will happen to your idea with such opposition. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:14, 1 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

haters gonna hate.. I'll proceed in small batches for uk and sh, leaving empty definitions only for terms I can't figure out or verify the exact translation. I have two huge databases for ru as well BTW, but it's not on my immediate radar. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 10:17, 1 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree but... Perhaps we should limit the download. I'll comment on the BP discussion. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

• 10-20% of these words (taken from corpora) are not listed in any dictionary, and translating them can be challenging. I'll switch to frequency lists after finishing the current batch. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:04, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

1. Thank you. I have been adding translations as I was busy with Chinese and Russian but I will do translations from Ukrainian, just can't promise how often and how many :). Using frequency lists sounds great. Do you have them? It would be more motivating and easy for others to join the efforts. I can definitely consider doing the same for Russian words, even if you don't add inflections. {{ru-pron-auto}} is not done yet but is promising and one needs to cater for exceptions, variants in pronunciations (to do). User:Wyang is progressing quite well with Module:ru-pron. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:50, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

   There are several frequency lists for Ukrainian available, and I even have a lemmatizer so it's no problem. First nouns, then verbs and adjectives, and then other languages. I didn't actually plan to focus on this in particular, but the vocal opposition has motivated me :) --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 22:54, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

   OK. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:56, 5 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is it a consensus that we put nothing on the definition lines in the translingual section? --kc_kennylau (talk) 04:26, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's what me and Wyang do. The translingual sections has been discussed multiple times, AFAIK but there is not much consensus and not much attention either. Nobody seems to care but they confuse users, if they don't match language sections. Many translingual sections have definitions for the lack of definitions in Mandarin, etc. sections. I only recently added definitions to 水, 年. You can see what state single-characters are in now. The purpose of translingual sections is not semantic, it's not a language - stroke order, etc. Definitions should be in language sections. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:37, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

To provide a bit of background info (for kenny): early in Wiktionary's history, bots created stub entries for a lot of Chinese characters by copying from other databases; these databases included some vague "definitions", which the bots put into the ==Translingual== section because they weren't able to tell which actual language sections to put them into. This is why some characters' translingual sections have definitions. Whenever it is possible for a human editor to move the definitions into specific language sections, my opinion and my understanding of past discussions is that doing so is desirable. For slightly more information, see Talk:佦. - -sche (discuss) 19:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I don't see any quick solution to missing definitions in Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. Now, with the merger, some of this will be solved but there's a lot of work. User:Wyang suggests using ===Definitions===. This may not be perfect long term (IMHO) but using this header, all missing Chinese definitions could be imported (or rather moved) from ===Translingual=== sections. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I would like to ask you to post in English whenever you post to multiple editors something that looks like soliciting opinions or input to a discussion. I generally oppose posts to talk pages in any other language but English, but in the mentioned scenario it is even more important. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for the suggestion but I decline. I have nothing to hide, these are not private talks and I use the language I want. If you're curious, you can use Google Translate or something. You can't impose what language people use, try making a rule and see what happens. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:07, 3 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Google translate is generally unreliable. I used Google translate on the messages you posted and it seems you asked in Russian some people to join a Beer parlour discussion. I found nothing wrong with the communication. Nonetheless, I think it discourteous to post these kinds of things in Russian on English Wiktionary, since such posts cannot be readily understood without help of unreliable tools. There is no "rule" or policy forbidding such posts, AFAIK, but I think that is a matter of civility and courtesy, recognizing that he who has nothing to hide has no good reason to post in a language that other editors do not understand. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:14, 3 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's only your opinion. I disagree. It was in Ukrainian, not Russian. You can raise an alarm in your style in the Beer parlour, smth. like - Alert! Atitarev is soliciting people to support generating definitionless entries and it's not in English!!! And if there's no policy or rule, please leave and stop bothering me.--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

There are not just policies and rules, there is also courtesy and British queueing. But I quit this page before I get accused of disruptive edits and harassment, since I find "if there's no policy or rule, please leave and stop bothering me" quite threatening. --Dan Polansky (talk)

Moved to User_talk:Bumm13#Hanzi_sections.2C_pronunciations. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:39, 6 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm adjusting okay so far to the new unified Chinese formatting for the most part. One thing I'm not seeing in Template:zh-pron is the option for adding the older Wade-Giles romanization for Mandarin. Wade-Giles isn't used as much anymore but is still found frequently in older texts and is still preferred by many Chinese linguistics experts in academia. It'd be really good to have the ability to automatically (or manually) convert from Hanyu pinyin to Wade-Giles. This page is good for showing most of the conversions from Hanyu pinyin to Wade-Giles (doesn't use IPA charts, though). Bumm13 (talk) 03:25, 6 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Este În regulă, it is all right, este un cuvânt "multi-sens"ǃ BAICAN XXX

Apologies, I accidentally reverted your edit but then reverted back, if you haven't noticed :-) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:21, 10 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi Anatoli! You seem to be the most proficient Arabic-speaker/-knower who's still active here, since User talk:ZxxZxxZ seems to be away. Could you take a look at يجري and يسبحون and فلك and الصمد and بحسب? I found them as I was going through old, neglected {{attention}}-tagged entries. There's a mismatch between the header (noun) and the headword line template (adjective). - -sche (discuss) 19:06, 14 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done - entries had a few issues, الصمد turned into a redirect, it's just a word with a definite article (Will I be considered deletionist?). I'm not proficient, though. You can also check with Mahmudmasri or Stephen Brown. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! I forgot about Mahmud, since he wasn't listed in Category:User ar. - -sche (discuss) 21:23, 15 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

The Mandarin example given seems to contain an error. Shouldn't it be Ní hǎo ma, not Ní háo ma? ---> Tooironic (talk) 07:31, 16 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

You're right. Changed accordingly. --kc_kennylau (talk) 07:34, 16 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Replying on Talk:tone sandhi --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:05, 17 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I see you sometimes create Pinyin entries, where Pinyin is a romanization for Chinese. Since you appear to dislike romanization entries, I wonder: why do you go out of your way to create romanization entries yourself? --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:45, 21 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't really dislike romanisation entries, I just don't see the need to have them for most languages. Hanyu pinyin and Hepburn rōmaji are two standards that were adopted for Mandarin Chinese and Japanese a while ago and they make red links - meaning an entry is missing where there could be an entry. Even if I don't create them, someone may. I don't really go out of my way - it takes me only two clicks with accelerated creation method but pinyin and romaji is one of the ways to maintain homophones. They (also Gothic) are also protected by the vote. The current vote for Sanskrit doesn't mention a specific standard of romanisation, e.g. IAST, just anything "attested". Besides, languages and scripts of India seem to be in danger due to excessive use of romanisation and English instead of native scripts and languages. Some proponents suggest that Sanskrit is often written in Latin, so I see the proposed method as not really indices or soft redirects to native script entries but an alternative to Devanagari or its gradual replacement. If it passes, I'll respect it but I don't approve it in the current state. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:25, 21 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, if you need material for 'Пу́тин хуйло́!', just look for these words on YouTube, you'll find quite a lot ! For instance whole soccer stadions shouting it. Just watch and enjoy ! Best greetings. 86.74.119.241 13:30, 21 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've seen them, they don't meet the requirements for CFI or references, though :) --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:39, 21 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, your edit here caused a module error. --Z 17:44, 24 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks and welcome back! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:04, 24 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, why did you delete 既成事実? At WT:RFD#既成の事実 it was mentioned, but not enlisted for deletion. Whym (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Restored, sorry. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:31, 24 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

As the first person I could think of who's familiar with Turkish, I thought I'd ask you to look at my comments at User talk:Brainy J#Turkish and either address my concerns or let me know why I'm off base. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 19:01, 27 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

You seem to be right but I don't know enough to comment, sorry.--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

You're right, Chuck. — — 21:06, 27 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Are we going to modify {{zh-pron}} to include Min Dong categories? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 03:20, 30 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I hope User:Wyang will do it. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:24, 30 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Added. Wyang (talk) 12:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Разве прошедшее время не "чла", "чло", "чли"? Как поправить таблицу? --WikiTiki89 02:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Исправил, спасибо. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:25, 2 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is there a special reason you added simplified forms in the derived forms for 科學 and vice versa for 科学? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of having separate entries for simp and trad forms? For the past many years we have only listed words in the script the entry is in, right? ---> Tooironic (talk) 05:19, 9 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

You're right. It's better to list terms in the same script. Feel free to remove the other script, although ／ is a sign, which is used to show both. It's also easier to maintain both trad. and simpl. forms without a lot of conversion work. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:27, 9 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Why don't we keep the entire content at one place and enable all the trad-simp conversions in quotes, terms, etc. on that page? Wyang (talk) 05:35, 9 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

We will all have to discuss this in a group. This idea has merits but I personally haven't made up my mind whether we should do it. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:39, 9 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm going to edit those entries now so simp is with simp and trad with trad. If you wizzes in come up with an elegant solution that would be great, but for now we may as well make sure that these entries are designed the same as 99% of all the other ones. ---> Tooironic (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

If you unprotect the page I'll make the necessary changes. DTLHS (talk) 00:46, 14 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, please! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Done. DTLHS (talk) 00:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks heaps! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:00, 14 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I tried to edit your user page to remove the deleted babel template, but the system automatically classed my edit as harmful for no reason (seriously somebody needs to get rid of that stupid user page filter). Template:User zh-3 has been deleted, just to let you know, and on your user page it tries to call a deleted template. It's your choice if you want to delete it or not, but I was just going to let you know in case you didn't already notice. Rædi Stædi Yæti {-skriv til mig-} 06:52, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

It's some kind of double-redirect or something, since I'm not using {{User zh-3}} but {{User cmn-3}}. I have restored the redirect, anyway. It may need to be a template on its own, since zh is a valid language code again. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:00, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Maybe we should bring a discussion about this to the grease pit or something. Rædi Stædi Yæti {-skriv til mig-} 07:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

But now it just repeats cmn-3 on your babel! Rædi Stædi Yæti {-skriv til mig-} 19:44, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

It doesn't repeat, it shows only once. I'm fine with that. Feel free to open a GP discussion, though. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Two cmn-3s. On your user page. Rædi Stædi Yæti {-skriv til mig-} 23:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

OK, I got it. This should be fixed and I'm sure it will, just can't be bothered about GP right now. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:35, 22 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Hi, do you remember where you got this list from? I'm really curious who thought that "Boston" and "Chicago" belong to the basic vocabulary of Burmese. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 01:55, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think it was from . The list needs attention of course. I only imported it. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:38, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Of course; I wasn't holding you personally responsible for it! But now that I know it's originally a list of English words for Burmese speakers to learn, it makes sense that it includes placenames in the English-speaking world. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:16, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

(Also pinging User:Wikitiki89 and User:CodeCat)

While I was working on orphaning {{impf}} and {{pf.}}, I noticed that there are many "hybrid" headword lines in Bulgarian verb entries — i.e. headword lines that put some of the information inside the headword template, and some next to it. Like so:

{{bg-verb|tr=izsícham|a=impf}}, ] (izseká) {{pf.}}

I decided to integrate the complementary aspect verb into the template call. The problem is, this template does not accept a transliteration argument. Integrating transliteration into the template might be tricky, and I am not sure if desirable; but simply removing transliteration would remove information about stress, which is something I would rather avoid. So I decided to write a module which recovers stress marks from the transliteration and applies them to the Cyrillic. But then I realised that I do not remember us actually using stress marks for Bulgarian.

Can you take a look at it? Tell me if the output is okay, whether we need this at all, can I go use it? I guess something similar could be useful for Russian.

— Keφr 23:08, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I made a bot script to do something like this for Russian a while ago. It was crude but it worked. Basically, what it did was go over each vowel in turn and put an accent on it, then transliterate it using Wiktionary's transliteration. If the output of that matched the given translation, then replace the headword with the one it guessed correctly. —CodeCat 23:12, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

As I understand it, the convention for Bulgarian is to use a grave accent rather than an acute one (as in Russian) to indicate stress. At any rate, that's what I do in translation tables when I remove the redundant transliterations and put the stress mark directly on the Bulgarian word itself. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 23:19, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

(After multiple E/C) Thank you both. Module:User:Kephir/untranslit looks good. The only thing, which needs fixing is "ъ" uses ̀ for stress, not ́, so the stress mark should be like this тръ̀гна (trǎ̀gna). Also, User:Bogorm made a list of imperfective/imperfective verbs here: User:Bogorm/Verben, which should be applied to the new template. Bulgarian doesn't need manual transliteration, if terms have stress marks. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:21, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Angr, grave is only used for ъ, other vowels use acute. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:22, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Quite strange. Why so? — Keφr 23:34, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

WT:BG TR has this, I only added it there as it was the status quo. I don't know why but I noticed that if I want to find a Bulgarian word with stressed "ъ" on the Web, I have to use the grave accent, not acute. User:Bogorm may know the reason but he is usually not very active. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:39, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Also… if ъ is supposed to have an grave accent, then why the transliteration has an acute? Module:bg-translit contains no accent conversion, for one. — Keφr 08:48, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Accents are not converted, Russian or Bulgarian, they are simply retained. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:54, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Well, yes, and so they are in my back-converter. Are they supposed to be changed to graves now? — Keφr 10:51, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Yes, please. E.g. it should be тръ̀гна (trǎ̀gna), not тръ́гна (trǎ́gna) when "ъ" is stressed. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:55, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Just wanted to point out that in Bulgarian the grave is not only used on ъ̀, but also on а̀ and я̀ when they are stressed and pronounced the same as ъ̀. --WikiTiki89 21:55, 2 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

In that case, we are in trouble. It definitely lacks consistency. There's no sufficient online dictionaries with this type of info and no committed Bulgarian editor. Neither WT:BG TR nor WT:ABG doesn't mention this. Occasional correct stresses (grave on а̀ and я̀) are not good enough. We should adopt more consistency, IMO. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:27, 4 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've checked some Bulgarian dictionaries and apparently they simply indicate all stress with the grave accent. Now that I think about it, I cannot even remember where I read this rule that differentiates the grave from the acute. --WikiTiki89 13:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

There is a similar situation with Russian verbs, which I am going to fix the same way. I adapted the module for Russian. It looks okay to me, but can you also take a look? — Keφr 20:26, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

They all look good, thanks! --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:40, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Here is something that bothers me. A lot of Russian verb headwords have one aspect specified, and list verbs not only of the opposite aspect, but of the same aspect as well in the headword line. Like:

{{ru-verb|оберну́ться|pf|impf=обора́чиваться}}, {{l|ru|обёртываться}} {{pf.}}

This makes no sense. Either they are synonyms, in which case they should be listed in the synonyms section, or they are some variants with subtle semantic differences (semelfactive vs iterative or such), in which case they should be probably described in more detail, not just listed in the headword line. — Keφr 21:18, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

оберну́ться (obernútʹsja) was incorrect - оборачиваться and обёртываться are both imperfectives. Fixed now. Let me know, if you find similar ones. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 21:29, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

My script currently fails to correctly process: мыть, е́здить, приве́тствовать, пуга́ть, стеба́ться, по́лзать, плати́ть, относи́ть, ка́пать, ска́тывать, везти́, рыть, компенси́ровать, меша́ть, зимова́ть, ма́зать, грызть, пу́тать, дрема́ть, интегри́роваться, руга́ть, мелька́ть, сёрбать, по́льзоваться, трясти́, посади́ть, гото́вить, лиди́ровать, пожа́ть. For reasons which may not necessarily be related to this. — Keφr 22:00, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

OK, I'll take a look at them when I have a chance. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:06, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've checked all, some with no changes in the header. I saw your "hmm" edit summaries. Yes, there are multiple forms, like pf2, pf3, etc. I have put all the forms into the header, removing all comments. Labels like "semelfactive", etc. will go to the appropriate entries. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

] and ] also look like this. I will also leave ] to you. — Keφr 07:14, 28 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

Done. You seem to have not read to my comment about Belarusian verbs. They don't need transliteration but occasionally missing stress marks. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:41, 28 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

There are still 165 entries transcluding {{impf}} and {{pf.}} with which my script is unable to deal. They will have to be eventually fixed manually; I think you will want to look at them. Most are Russian verb translations with misformatted qualifier labels. Other use {{impf}} and {{pf.}} in definitions and usage examples (not sure if that is wrong). And there are three Arabic verbs using {{ar-verb (old)}}, which I have no idea how to convert. For now, I will probably just change these entries to use {{g}}.

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