User talk:Chernorizets

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki-editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

• Entry layout (EL) is a detailed policy on Wiktionary's page formatting; all entries must conform to it. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing same-language entry, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
• Check out Language considerations to find out more about how to edit for a particular language.
• Our Criteria for Inclusion (CFI) defines exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary; the most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
• If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
• If you have any questions, bring them to Wiktionary:Information desk or ask me on my talk page.
• Whenever commenting on any discussion page, please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) which automatically produces your username and timestamp.
• You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage to indicate your self-assessed knowledge of languages.

Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Vininn126 (talk) 08:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Never got around to thanking you for the warm welcome, Vininn126. But as they say, better later :-) Chernorizets (talk) 10:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I have come across this word and am curious about the senses and declension. I am relatively new to Wiktionary and Bulgarian, so please forgive my lack of understanding! I notice that the declension is singular only, whereas the reference “белило”, in Речник на българския език (in Bulgarian), Sofia: Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, 2014 seems to indicate that only the first sense is singular only and reference “белило”, in Речник на българския език (in Bulgarian), Chitanka, 2010 show a declension table with plurals. Should this have 2 senses with two declension tables? SimonWikt (talk) 13:25, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@SimonWikt good catch! I've fixed it, and also added a few related terms while I was there ;-) Chernorizets (talk) 20:46, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Chernorizets Cool!

SimonWikt (talk) 23:17, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hello, I'm sorry, it feels very selfish for having effectively hijacked your discussion of the IPA problems with the {{bg-IPA}} template. I think I got carried away... 😥 I think we should move some of the side-discussions somewhere else, such as under the new module. Benwing, from whom we need permission to port the changes, is evidently having a hard time taking in all the other discussion. Does this seem like a good idea? Kiril kovachev (talk) 08:15, 26 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev I don't personally know how to move the side discussions without messing up the flow of conversation, since some replies refer to both the original {{bg-IPA}} issues as well as other concerns. What I'd do is perhaps reply to my original thread with a sort of "summary" comment, for Benwing's sake and ours too, where:

• we say what needs to happens next for the original request of fixing Bulgarian IPA transcriptions
• we indicate that independent discussions will be started for any new features to bg-pronunciation

I recommend an incremental approach, where we make one change at a time, and limit our refactoring efforts to just what would support that change. There was an earlier version of your module code which simply fixed the IPA issues and added hyphenation as a standalone exported function. I'd very much like to go back to that, and tackle anything bigger in subsequent changes. We don't just get one chance to modify the module :) If that's too hard due to subsequent refactoring, let me know (I haven't looked at the latest code).

Thanks,

Chernorizets (talk) 20:35, 26 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Chernorizets True, I had a similar thing in mind with regard to the discussion. I think your plan is ideal, and we should go ahead and post this summary, etc., and wait for his input, with the code hopefully being pushed. I too was also thinking about how we were gonna port the code, and indeed it would make sense not to copy over the entire experimental contents; and that's not my intention either, in fact the hyphenation and IPA changes are still entirely independent and can be copied directly. I believe I will move the current WIP changes to a separate page and revert to the old state of the module.

Finally, am I right in saying that all of your original suggestions from that thread have already been implemented? Kiril kovachev (talk) 08:47, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev yes, all my suggestions have been implemented. In fact, I found the reference source that much of the Bulgarian phonology article's IPA treatment is based on, which has the benefit of a longer text sample transcribed into IPA. We are consistent with that. Chernorizets (talk) 09:03, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

If we have to be super-duper precise, what this describes is a "broad IPA" way of transcribing Bulgarian pronunciation, meaning that it doesn't capture all the small subtleties of real-life pronunciation. There is also "narrow IPA" transcription, which uses the full set of IPA diacritical marks to convey as exact a pronunciation as possible, but I'd rather we add more audio than use characters that only specialists can fully understand/appreciate. Chernorizets (talk) 09:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Chernorizets Sounds good to me. If we did need ultra-precise IPA then that could come much later.

My change to the module has cut out all the sundries I added since the point of hyphenation, but retained all the bug fixes, etc. from the later versions, so hopefully we are still in good shape, as the tests, and your reference to that source, suggest we are. If you are not already doing so—or if you don't prefer to write it yourself?—I will get to writing a summary response. Kiril kovachev (talk) 09:45, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev I'm on PST time so I'm about to go to bed - I'd be very grateful if you could post the summary on the original thread. Thanks a lot! Chernorizets (talk) 09:51, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

You got it, have a good sleep! @Chernorizets Kiril kovachev (talk) 09:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Congrats on гъдулка being nominated FWOTD for tomorrow! Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 01:08, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev I'm very happy about it! Thanks for providing the audio! Chernorizets (talk) 02:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

My pleasure, I only hope it was up to scratch! Great work on it yourself, of course, you did most of the heavy lifting :') Perhaps this can too be considered a "small victory"? ;) Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 09:25, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev oh it's going on the list, I'm just waiting for the 13th :) Chernorizets (talk) 09:30, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Oh, you're Bulgarian? Nice, what a rare sight. Anyway, Polish and Russian are still more interesting, but you seem nice, so I can forgive that. 22Pikachu9988 (talk) 19:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@22Pikachu9988 hahah, well I'm relieved :P Chernorizets (talk) 20:50, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev, Bezimenen, IYI681, SimonWikt: if you're using the accelerated entry creation links (which show up in green, if you have that option enabled), there are a few updates I've made you might find useful:

• Nouns: there are now green links to create relational adjectives, diminutives, augmentatives and female equivalents.
• Adverbs: there are now green links to create comparative and superlative degrees.

In both cases, the auto-created entry requires a bit of manual work to be fully fleshed-out, but it should be a decent start. Enjoy! :-)

Chernorizets (talk) 04:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Chernorizets Thanks, I was trying to implement this all manually in a local script, and it was needlessly complicated - this sounds it'll be very helpful. ^^^ Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 19:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Is it related to the West European words for ‘garden’? ―⁠Biolongvistul (talk) 07:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Biolongvistul I think so. English garden eventually goes back to Proto-Germanic *gardaz, which is from the same PIE root as Proto-Balto-Slavic *gardas, which eventually gives Bulgarian град (grad). градина (gradina) is a derived term from град (grad). Chernorizets (talk) 08:33, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

An independent formation? Fascinating. ―⁠Biolongvistul (talk) 09:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

It was sad to see that you lost various characteristics of the Bulgarian dialect that you grew up with.

Condolences aside, I asked Tashi (talk • contribs) about a certain dialect of Polish.

Does Bulgarian have any similar website or two to the website related to Polish dialects that's mentioned at Tashi's talk-page? -- Apisite (talk) 09:20, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Apisite,

The Bulgarian Dialect Atlas is a 2-volume work which has been digitized and made available online (as scanned pages) at this URL: https://ibl.bas.bg/bda/. The first volume covers dialect phonology and accentology, and the second volume covers dialect morphology.

A word of caution - Bulgarian linguistics still considers most dialects of Macedonian to be Bulgarian dialects, as shown on this example map from the atlas, which considers the presence or absence of count forms for masculine nouns (a morphological feature).

There might be other resources on the Internet about Bulgarian dialects, but that's the only one I know of OTOH. Is there something in particular you're interested in?

Cheers,

Chernorizets (talk) 09:41, 7 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Честита баба Марта! Да си жив и здрав, румен и засмян ти пожелавам! Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 16:54, 1 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev Честита баба Марта и на теб! Благодаря! Chernorizets (talk) 07:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply