User talk:Roger.M.Williams

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 04:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hello @Roger.M.Williams, regarding your latest edit on this entry, I disagree with you on the derogatory label. Mazsch (talk) 09:53, 24 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@User:Mazsch Hello! This is interesting... Well, you can definitely strike that label out if you do think it inaccurate, but I would like to know how or whether the "connotational attitude" of that term contrasts with other expressions in Modern Persian, as I removed the word "gay" on the assumption that, like the Arabic, the Persian does not parallel the use of "gay" in English (for example, "gay rights", "gay marriage", "gay pride", and so on).

Before the edit, I tried to look for a Persian term for "sodomite" (that is, a condemnatory word) and one for "homosexual" (a neutral word). The results I found were as I expected—the evaluation implied by the Arabic etymon appeared to have transferred to Persian, but I opted to delve a bit further to verify my conclusion since my Persian is very poor. I found this article on Encyclopedia Iranica, which examines the formal similarity between the Arabic-borrowed term for sodomy and a number of stigmatic designations that were historically used to refer to various groups. Below are the two paragraphs that I based my decision on:

"LUṬI, also luti (pl. alvāṭ), has a variety of meanings. The term was first mentioned by the tenth-century poet Kesāʾi, who equated the luṭis with catamites (tāzand mikyāz). For Jalāl- al-Din Rumi (13th century) and ʿObayd Zākāni (14th century) luṭis were pederasts, and the related word lavāṭi (sodomy) is still used as such. Not every text offers this negative sexual connotation. Nāṣer-e Ḵosrow (11th century) equated the luṭis with wine drinkers, thieves and whore-mongers, while Suzani warned that luṭis cannot be trusted in commercial dealings.

The etymology of the word luṭi is uncertain. Given the meaning of loose living, gambling, wine-imbibing, and pederasty, many have argued that the term was derived from liwāṭ (‘sodomy’), a derivative of the Arabic maṣdar of lāṭa or lāwaṭa, a denominative verb from LUṬ the prophet (EI², s.v. “Liwāṭ”)."

Roger.M.Williams (talk) 11:44, 24 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hello Roger.M.Williams,

Really sorry for the inconvenience. This is a gentle note to request that you check your email. We sent you a message titled "The Community Insights survey is coming!". If you have questions, email [email protected].

You can see my explanation here.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hey- I wanted to let you know the answer to the question posed here: . My intention was to provide the reader with a faithful reproduction of the text that can be seen in the picture. Since the time of my edit, the utility of adding pictures like this on Wiktionary has been debated and discussed. I think the current edit is fine as is, but I wanted to respond to the question you had posed. Also: I see that you can speak Arabic- please check out this list of English loan words from Uyghur if you are interested. I can't speak the language and was working blind when making many of these pages. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@User:Geographyinitiative Hello! I did indeed suspect that the caption was thus written after how the board of the factory is stylized. My "question" was not really a question or a criticism but rather how I personally perceived the caption when I read it (that is, as "shouting").

As for the list of terms borrowed from Uighur, I skimmed through them and could not recognize any of them as "Arabic", so I assume they either are from historically Turkic items or are heavily altered borrowings possibly through intermediaries (as the current etymology of راۋاپ (rawap) speculates, for example). However, since I know a negligible amount of historically Turkic vocabulary (mainly Ottoman words that passed into Arabic) and am not familiar with the variations in the Perso-Arabic script that are peculiar to written Uighur, I do not think I can help much here. Thanks for your tremendous and impressive work on those pages though! Roger.M.Williams (talk) 18:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Reply