User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan/Archive 3

Here is something for you with regard to User_talk:Vahagn_Petrosyan/Archive_2#Jingoistic_images - I am discussing with Ivan what caption to choose for an unified column for the two literary norms of the Bulgarian language - it is not a battle like the Serbo-Croatian one (due to the scarce number of contributors from FYROM we have) but it is still a heated issue ^_^ I would appreciate your opinion/suggestions. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:37, 25 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

I will comment, thank you. Don’t expect deep insight, though. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет. Ты мог бы создать статью об армянском глаголе xap'anem (мешаю, препятствую)? Согласно Фасмеру это слово родственно русскому хапать и латинскому capio, capere. Потом было бы хорошо кинуть его сюда, там уже куча родственных слов. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 14:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Создал и добавил խափանեմ (xapʻanem). Мой источник не подтверждает связь с capio и хапать, но раз уж Фасмер говорит, можем и добавить как родственное слово. --Vahagn Petrosyan 16:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, sorry about that. I saw it listed in the wanted-articles shortlist and then created a whole entry without checking whether any of the usual spelling variants had entries. I was going to get around to merging their contents at some point; you beat me to it. Thanks for retaining all the useful information from the two entries. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 02:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

No problem. --Vahagn Petrosyan 02:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет, ВахагВааг. Я заметил разногласия между тобой и Ketie-м и удаление с его стороны информации, оснащенной источником. Я сам столбенею от возмущения каждый раз, когда удаляется информация, оснащенная источниками и посему я поддерживаю твое решение. Предлагаю тоже пересмотреть его утверждения о еврейском происхождении, когда оно конкурирует с древнеармянском, а когда нет другой теории, вставлять Template:rfv-etymology, пока он не начнет указывать источники как ты. Вот здесь например ты восстановил подлинную этимологию, но и сохранил его правки. Он тебе предоставил источник об этой своей правке? Может быть, надо привести статью в изначальном виде (до необоснованной теории с его стороны). The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

По-русски Вааг :) Я как-раз пару минут назад убрал еврейскую этимологию. Я ещё давно просил у неё (Ketie, наверное, девушка) источники, но она ничего не отвечает и вообще, добавляет всякую фигню: вот тут, например, назвала источником грузинского სრა (sra) персидский کاخ (kāx). Но не хочется мне её indef-блокировать — нам нужны грузинские пользователи. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

В армянском языке есть слово p'inj со значением ноздря? Согласно Абаеву, его нужно сравнить (он не говорит, что родственно, но все-таки было бы хорошо связать их одним cf.) с осетинским фындз. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Это слово պինչ (pinčʻ) или պինջ (pinǰ). --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Да, точно. А как ты нашел правильное написание пуштунского слова? Я тоже хочу находить подобные написания, но в интернете о пуштунском (и таджикском) почти ничего не нашел (словари, грамматики). The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 09:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Пуштунское слово нашёл в этом словаре. Есть оно и тут. Таджикские материалы я тоже не находил. Если нужны какие-нибудь другие языки, спрашивай — я собрал коллекцию ссылок на достойные словари. --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет снова. В своем словаре Monier-Williams приводит армянское kamim рядом с काम (kāma), но не указывая значение (наверное обозначает что-либо, связанное с любовью). Есть такое слово? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 20:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Это слово կամիմ (kamim, “I wish”) и оно иранского происхождения. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi there Vahag. I think one month full protection of that Georgian page is a little overkill. I think a week long protection would be best, but then again, you're the administrator, not me. Just a friendly, helpful note, Razorflame 01:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I am not going to keep it protected for a whole month. Will lift protection as soon as I see the disgruntled Georgian contributor is not going to push POV anymore. --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I knew that you were going to do that. No worries :) Razorflame 01:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi there Vahag. Do you think you could modify the io-noun template to take the sg= parameter, please? Thanks, Razorflame 20:53, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

If you do this, make it head=... better to keep it constant for all languages and parts of speech. (not all languages have singular/plural, and sg= can't really be used for verbs...etc) — opiaterein — 21:21, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I just did both. --Yair rand 21:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well thanks for contributing to the lack of consistency. — opiaterein — 22:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome. :-) --Yair rand 22:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. But I'm just a lazy Equinox who doesn't always sign in :) 86.131.98.77 15:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Still, must feel good :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

You said earlier that you were serious when you said that I should learn Azeri. Now that you think that I can learn the language, I will need some tools in order to begin to learn it. If you know of any, please tell me. Razorflame 18:16, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I don't know the language and have not collected resources for it. You can ask User:Sinek. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hmmm..kk. Cheers, Razorflame 18:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Lol V, you know he's biting off more than he can chew. — opiaterein — 18:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

As far as I'm concerned, he can bite off Azeri as much as he wants: I am not going to discourage him. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

But, Vahagn, I was about to discourage him - Azeri is a Turkic language and one learns fastest if one is acquainted with languages from the same familily. Exempli gratia, knowing Russian and Bulgarian facilitates a quick familiarisation with Serbo-Croatian, of German with Danish and so on. Razorflame has no knowledge in Turkic languages and it would take a long time, whereas, as I conjecture, he is intent on proceeding as quickly as possible. Furthermore, there is the encumbrance of the two scripts - traditional Cyrillic and recently imposed Latin. Why not learn Ossetian or Russian instead? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 18:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Keeping in mind, of course, that Vahag is Armenian ;) — opiaterein — 19:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

>:D --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. It seems that you had a run-in with this user a few days ago about his entries being mostly wrong. I found several more errors in some of his Kannada entries, and he further editing in Armenian after you asked him not to. I think a short, 24-48 hour block is appropriate now as he is continuing to make mistakes. What do you think? Razorflame 05:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have promised myself to block him the next time he adds an incorrect Armenian entry: I asked him either to stop or to learn the Armenian alphabet 3 times now. Thanks for telling me he is reckless in Kannada too. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:41, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I had to correct the transliterations of more than 80% of the Kannada he added (and a lot of the ligatures look suspicious. He might have also had reckless abandon in Telugu and Tamil as well. Razorflame 11:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

It's finally fully online, in case you haven't noticed... Lots of interesting stuff inside! --Ivan Štambuk 13:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I downloaded it on the 13th. I expected a dictionary but this is more like a discussion of literature for select words. Still, will use it when I start editing actively again. BTW, I've heard a new comprehensive etymological dictionary by J̌ahukyan is being prepared for some time now. --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Can you add Armenian translations for the 6 quarks? up, down, charm, you know. :) — opiaterein — 16:58, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes I can :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:35, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi there Vahagn. Would you be willing to make a proper noun template for the Kannada language please? Thanks, Razorflame 02:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

I went ahead and made other templates as well. --Vahagn Petrosyan 03:25, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks and cheers, Razorflame 06:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Can you make it for all templates so that if the template is missing the tr= parameter, it adds the entry to a hidden category Category:Kannada words needing transliteration please? Thanks, Razorflame 06:55, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Randy already did that. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:36, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yep =D Razorflame 07:41, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Ողջույն, Վահագն Պետրոսյան: Վիքիբառարանում ձեր հայերենի ներդրումներից թվում է թե քաջատեղյակ կլինեք հայերենում ֆիզիկային վերաբերվող տերմինների մասին: Այդ պատճառով էլ ուզում եմ խնդրել եթե ժամանակ ունենաք մի հատ ստուգեք հայերեն Վիքիփեդիայում հիմնական մասնիկների կաղապարը, այն համեմատելով ուրիշ լեզուների հետ, քանի որ նրան թարգմանելիս վստահ չէի որոշ բառերի հայերեն համարժեքի մասին: Շատ շնորհակալություն :) Chaojoker 11:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Շատ լավ, վաղը կնայեմ: Հիմա գնում եմ քնեմ: --Vahagn Petrosyan 14:43, 22 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Բարև Վահագն ջան։ Եթե զբաղված չես, քեզ մի հարց ունեմ։ Ես հաճախ լսում եմ հայեր օգտագործեն «լոքշ» բառը և հասկանում եմ որ դա նշանակում է «boredome»։ Միայն չեմ գիտեր թե որտեղից է եկել ես բառը... հայերեն բառ է կամ օտար բառ է որ «հայացված» է։ Շնորհակալություն։ - Fedayee 02:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Բարև Ֆիդայի ջան: «Լոքշ» խոսակցական բառ ա ու ավելի հաճախ նշանակում է «boring», երբեմն նաև «boredom»: Կարծում եմ ռուսերեն локш (lokš) բառն ա, որը օգտագործվում ա քրեական սլենգում: Տես լոքշ (lokʻš): --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:21, 16 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Շատ շնորհակալություն բացատրության և հոդվածին համար Վահագն ջան :-) - Fedayee 18:17, 26 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Խնդրեմ: --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Большое спасибо, Вааг. Нет, русский не забыл, но бывают сложности с выбором шаблонов для склонениий и спряжений. Я как, ты заметил, не очень много сам создаю статей, всё больше занимаюсь переводами. Я по возможности добавлю сам - это как список пожеланий - для себя или других. Спасибо ещё раз. --Anatoli 23:31, 17 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Я так и подумал. Когда-нибудь надо будет написать туториал про русские шаблоны... --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:17, 18 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Спасибо, за вклад в русский язык в Викисловаре, Вааг. Продолжай в том же духе! Если напишешь руководство по шаблонам, я буду одним из первых потребителей! --Anatoli 22:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Before you ambark on this, you ought to get community consensus. The US/UK/Commonwealth spelling issue has long divided the community. That may no longer be the case, but previous discussions have usually concluded that some form of content duplication is preferrable to relegating one spelling to "alternative" status. --EncycloPetey 17:49, 27 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

I don't remember a discussion, concluding that "some form of content duplication is preferrable to relegating one spelling to "alternative" status". Can you point me to one? All I remember is a universal agreement that duplication is bad and the inability of the community to devise a mechanism of fair choosing the main spelling entry, apart from gentleman's agreement of favoring the chronologically first created spelling. --Vahagn Petrosyan 17:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

The major part of the discussion happened some time ago, and I can't say for certain where it ended up. It most likely involved lots of references to (deprecated template usage) color/(deprecated template usage) colour, as that was a centerpiece of attempts to work out a mechanism to minimize duplication. --EncycloPetey 05:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Here are two of the early discussions:

Vahag, I am sorry to disagree with you on this occasion, but with regard to similar edits I must join EncycloPetey's admonition. On perceiving anyone degrading a full-fledged entry about a Commonwealth spelling (Commonwealth speakers of English are the biggest part of native English speakers) to a mere alternative spelling of a regional US variant, I cannot but express my demurral and displeasure with such kind of edits. Duplication is always præferable in comparison with incessant altercations, let alone with edit wars, which would become imminent, if any of these two kinds of spellings were given præcedence over the other. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

I will start a BP discussion in one of these days. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:23, 28 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Just a note that Triwikanto is back, and seems to be doing the same thing that he was doing earlier. Razorflame 06:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have noticed. Not nice when people edit in languages they have no clue about, is it? --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I was just letting you know about it. I wasn't perturbed by it. I thought you would be. Razorflame 07:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes. I am very perturbed. Triwikanto must pay: no non-Armenian may edit Armenian on Wiktionary without consequences (an ancient curse of Armenian pharaohs). --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

By the way, I sent ya an email :) Cheers, Razorflame 01:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes. And the answer to your question is "I have no idea". --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Heh...ok. It is kinda interesting. Razorflame 01:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Vahag, could you help me out with the protection of inebriated - after a vandalism raid by a dynamic IP I decided to protect the article for one week, but after choosing the duration of 1 week the edit summary from 7:04 UTC to-day is as follows: (expires 07:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC). Is the article indeed protected for one week and whence this inconsistence with the summary? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:09, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

You did everything right, the page is protected from IPs and newbies for one week. You can see "inebriated" now listed at the bottom of this list of protected pages. The summary (expires 07:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC) means that editing is restricted to autoconfirmed users. As far as I know accounts are called 'autoconfirmed' if they are more than four days old and have made at least 10 edits. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I knew what autoconfirmed means. I was baffled by expires 07:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC), because this was the instant when I protected it. Thanks for the explanation. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

But why were you baffled? The instant you protected was 07:04, 2 April 2010 (UTC). +7 days is 07:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC). It is April 2 in Bulgaria, right? :) --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Ой, действительно! I am somehow distracted this morning, sorry. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет, Вааг. Ты посчитал бы слово прикащик(ъ) дореформенным правописанием слова приказчик? Речь идет о предложении:

это право вотчинной полиции на практике перешло бы из рук образованных людей, каковыми можно считать большинство помещиков, в руки безграмотных и грубых писарей, прикащиков и конторщиков

(переписал по правилам современной орфографии)

Я никак не могу найти слово прикащик в словарях, но гугл выдает какие-то результаты. Ты мог бы создать статью приказчик? Я был отважным (bold) и создал статью прикащикъ. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 09:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет, Богорм. Я считаю так: прикащикъ — это дореформенное написание прикащика, а приказчикъ — приказчика. Ведь реформа 1918-а не содержала никаких указаний насчёт щ -> зч. Многие русские и сейчас произносят щ вместо зч, как расскащик (рассказчик), закащик (заказчик), но пишут правильно, с зч. Spelling прикащик отражает их диалект и не связано с реформой. Сейчас, в связи с бо́льшей грамотностью, написания прикащик и расскащик недопустимы, поэтому их можно отмечать тэгом archaic. Я так думаю. --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Понятно. Это скорее всего так, однако из Речей консерватора князя Мещерского я нашел и другие интересные правописания такие как выйдти, через чур, подъискать и т. д. Все они в современном русском языке по-другому пишутся, не правда? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 11:15, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Правда. Когда-нибудь надо будет выловить такие архаичные написания и добавить как Alternative spelling. Я ценю такой эксклюзивный контент. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Я не понимаю, зачем эта правка? Петр І тоже проводил реформу (отменил омегу, пси и некоторые другие буквы), так что дореформенная вызывает двусмысленность, которая исчезает при выражении дореволюционная (во время Петра І не было революций). The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 15:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Я не нашёл общепринятого английского названия дореволюционной орфографии. Меняй на какое хочешь - у меня нет собственного мнения на этот счёт. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:19, 5 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I *think* on լույս it'd be better to write lui̯s... luɪs is like how we say the name Luis. Anyway, IPA j and i are kinda equivalent but apparently used in different contexts, whereas ɪ is just a lonely little fuck off to the side. I don't know why we use it in English IPA in shit like "die"... so wrong. Anyway I'll quit rambling now — opiaterein — 21:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I know. I didn't know diphthongs are marked by ̯ back then, so I had been wrongly using for ույ for a while. I am gradually fixing those entries. --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:09, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Alright, just wanted to get it out there :) — opiaterein — 13:05, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Dude, revert your deletion of 'citations'. 81.68.255.36 20:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

No. We do not allow YouTube videos as "citatitions", because they are not durably archived. See WT:CITE for citation rules. See Citations:mauve for citation examples. --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I didn't intend it as a "citatition" 81.68.255.36 21:05, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well, the Citations tab is for "citatitions" and only for that. I have put the transcript of your video as a citation in Citations:copy. --Vahagn Petrosyan 21:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Good, but what are you saying? Youtube isn't used because videos are often deleted? 81.68.255.36 21:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes, that is one reason. The other is that, as far as I know, we haven't even discussed including videos as citations, have no formatting rules and there has been no precedent. Anyway, even if we were to allow citing videos (and I would like to eventually allow citing movies and TV shows), YouTube won't be acceptable, because their videos get deleted too often and our citations should be “durably archived”. --Vahagn Petrosyan 06:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well, don't you think it's time to start discussing about including videos as citations? I'm not necessarily talking about Youtube (because I understand it's troublesome that a video is deleted 'often'), but from what you're saying I understand that movies and TV shows aren't allowed. That is ridiculous. Those media play a large role in so many people's lives. 81.68.255.36 10:14, 8 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Our forum for such discussions is Wiktionary:Beer Parlour. You are welcome to start one. I myself have neither time nor willingness to prepare a proposal, sorry. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Wow, thank you — what little sex appeal there was has indeed increased; I felt like I was contributing, but now I just feel ashamed :p

Perhaps you could help me in other ways: I spent the better part of two hours reading up on the IPA and Armenian transliteration for work I was doing on Wikipedia. Could you let me know where I went wrong, and what improvements you made to this entry?

Could you also comment on the validity of another transliteration I've been working on: I started with 'Haroutune Krikor Daghlian' and then looked for the Armenian versions, coming up with 'Հարություն Կրիկոր Դաղլիան', and from there created the IPA '/hɑɾutʰjun kɾikoɾ dɑʁliɑn/'. Are the last two Armenian names incorrect? I'm sure now the pronunciations aren't perfect... I used Wikipedia's IPA for Armenian. – Quoth 10:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

:) Well, you did nothing wrong, I just expanded the entry. Few things though: you removed the transliteration Harutyun and added Haroutune, Haroutioun, Haroutyoun. These three are valid transliterations, but so is the first one. In fact, Harutyun is the official transliteration you will find in Armenian passports; the other three were made by members of Armenian Diaspora, not following any set rules but by looking at the orthography of the country they found themselves in (USA, France) and their taste.

Another small thing, յու is a diphthong and is pronounced as , not . Also, Armenians of the Republic of Armenia would pronounce the ending -ություն (-utʻyun) as , not (I think this is Russian influence).

As for 'Haroutune Krikor Daghlian', the correct Armenian spelling is Հարություն (Harutʻyun) Գրիգոր (Grigor) Տաղլյան (Taġlyan) in Reformed Orthography and Հարութիւն (Harutʻiwn) Գրիգոր (Grigor) Տաղլեան (Taġlean) in Traditional Orthography. The pronunciation in Eastern Armenian is /hɑɾuˈtsʰi̯un gɾiˈkʰoɾ tɑʁˈli̯ɑn/ and in Western Armenian /hɑɾuˈtʰi̯un kʰɾiˈkʰoɾ dɑʁˈli̯ɑn/. As you can see the English spelling 'Haroutune Krikor Daghlian' reflects the Western Armenian pronunciation, obviously because that man was a Western Armenian. If you are going to put this in Wikipedia, use the Western Armenian pronunciation and the Traditional Orthography.

If you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:11, 10 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Again, thank you for for all of this useful information and advice — I was way off. Do you know how the English forms are pronounced, I've read somewhere the surname could be something like 'dolly-an'? And so similar mistakes don't happen again with regard to the IPA, is there someway I could improve Wikipedia's IPA for Armenian entry to be more correct? Just add this missing diphthong (is it the same for Eastern and Western)?

One more question: I've read the relevant Wiki articles on the IPA, and understand what a phoneme is, but still couldn't grasp when I should use '' or '/ /' except that '' is used for exact phonetic transcriptions... which just makes me confused as to why there is a need for anything else. Could you help me understand? – Quoth 15:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I don't think there are any rules for English pronunciation of Armenian names/surnames. People just look at the spelling and come up with some (inevitably distorted) pronunciation, or, rather, I should say some noise. No English speaker can say my name, for example.

I have expanded Wikipedia's IPA for Armenian to include diphthongs. There are no differences between Western and Eastern Armenian pronunciation of vowels/diphthongs but there are differences in orthography: Western Armenian uses Traditional Orthography and Eastern Armenian (except Iran) the Reformed one. E.g the diphthong is written իւ in Traditional Orth. and as յու in the Reformed.

You are right that '' is used for exact phonetic transcriptions. We use '/ /' for English pronunciations. For example pet is transcribed as /pɛt/. With square brackets it would have been , but because the difference between and is not phonemic in English, we don't bother elaborating on it and so use '/ /' instead. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:48, 10 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for all your help. Concerning the changes, are the 'ոյ' and 'օյ' diphthongs in Traditional and Reformed Armenian, or just the latter? – Quoth 04:44, 11 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I removed that diphthong altogether. I could think of only one word where it occurs as a diphthong: բոյկոտ (boykot). --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:49, 11 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Does that look good for Russian? I've never seen a Russian adjective that ends in ый. — opiaterein — 00:00, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Iya, there are tons of Russian adjectives ending in -ый. The transliteration is wrong tho; should be sólnečnyj véter. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Damn I looked right at that and tried to make a mental note to put in the y. Glad I asked you haha :D — opiaterein — 00:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Allah akbar. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

لا - أنا أكبر. وإنت, وأفترض.— opiaterein — 01:08, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

What's that shit? --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Man, get on google translate. :D — opiaterein — 01:31, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

There is an Armenian word in the etymology. Originally, there was just the transliteration, but I added the (hopefully correct) Armenian spelling. It's just that the meaning doesn't seem to match up with that of the entry տեղ. Could you take a look at this? – Krun 13:23, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

You spelled it correctly: տեղ (teġ). I now added the homograph referred to in tallow etymology. Thanks for bringing this up. --Vahagn Petrosyan 18:38, 15 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I was unable to find μετωνυμία (metōnumía) in online LSJ when I had worked on this. What other source do you use for this kind of thing. Is this etymon post-Classical? I have added a post-Classical Latin intermediate term. DCDuring TALK 15:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I used LSJ. The word is also found in this Ancient Greek - German dictionary. Because according to LSJ the word was used by Cicero and Pseudo-Plutarch (3rd to 4th century AD), it is not Medieval (Byzantine) Greek, if that's what you meant by post-Classical. Latin metonymia, though, is late. --Vahagn Petrosyan 15:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Right. My transliteration mistake in using LSJ. Sorry and thanks. DCDuring TALK 16:24, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hey man, can you check the Armenian spelling? There's not enough Armenian on google. — opiaterein — 00:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

You should have reconstructed the spelling basing on Western Armenian pronunciation, not Eastern. Jack Kevorkian is a Western Armenian. --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

You know I don't know shit about Western Armenian. Or... if you didn't you do now :) — opiaterein — 13:40, 25 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

( & also somewhat low-browed). Please Vahagn, could you add a phonetic transcription after your russian translations ? It would be useful to those who can't read cyrillic : for ex. , today's "napiform" in russian begins for me by something like "peno" or "penu" , while "simony" is simply unreadable BTW , was it voluntarily that you left one entry (the italian one) of "simony" blank ? . Thanks beforehand , t.y. Arapaima 08:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Vahagn can be on a short break. I have added the transliteration. Note that the translit. letters are not to be read "the English way", notably letters j, c and x are approximation y (yes), ts (its) and kh (Scottish loch). --Anatoli 09:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I used to always add the transliterations in translations, but lately I have been leaving them blank hoping that Conrad's transliterator will do that job for me when it is installed (which it looks like won’t happen before Jesus’ second coming). I will try to be less lazy. But mind you, transliterations in translation tables are not phonetic transcriptions; they are transliterations - mechanical substitution of one letter of Cyrillic alphabet with one letter of Latin. You should look for pronunciations in the ===Pronunciation=== section of Russian entries. I don't add those yet because I'm too lazy to learn IPA for Russian. As for Italian translation of simony, I left it out by accident, of course, not intentionally. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks a lot A. & V.P. ("penu" instead of "repo" ! :-)))... VP, how is the sun on the roman tiles roof across your street ? Here , we are waiting for some rain, my daffodils & tulips are blistering away ... ). BTW ("esprit de l'escalier") it'd be good also for the greek to have the phonetic, I thought I remembered its alphabet, though... ( "goggneloeidés" ???) So, you see... T.y. Arapaima 10:13, 30 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I added the Greek transliteration: it's gongyloeidis. PS There is no Roman tiles roof across my street. --Vahagn Petrosyan 13:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sadly, but that wiktionary doesn't exist. I will try to work here according to the policies you mentioned. Thanks. -- Bugoslav 22:02, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Happy editing. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:05, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Why did you delete my page MacinCrash? 72.251.2.249 00:53, 30 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

See {{notwikipedia}} and {{asdfg}}. Conrad.Irwin 00:55, 30 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет, Вааг. Сегодня я написал статью в немецкой Википедии о Вагане Эдуардовиче Ованнисяне. Дело в том, что согласно русской статье он был вице-спикером парламента с 2003 по 2008 год, а согласно статье в англоязычной версии с 2007 по 2008. Ты наверняка можешь помочь мне разобраться в этом. Последний параграф в армянской статье упоминает год начала вице-спикерства? Прости, что я здесь пишу, однако если напишу вопрос на твоей странице разговора в немецкой википедии, возможно, прочтешь сообщение через несколько недель. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 19:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привер, Богорм. Ты правильно сделал, что написал тут. Только, как ты уже исправил, я Вааг = Վահագն (Vahagn). Это он — Ваган = Վահան (Vahan). А вице-спикером он был 12 июня 2003 — 22 февраля 2008. Я даже за него голосовал, хотя взглядов не разделяю. Спасибо, что пишешь про армян. А как тебя зовут, если не секрет? --Vahagn Petrosyan 20:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Я ответил по электронной почте. Спокойной ночи. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 20:37, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Are Antiochian or Antiochan more usual synonyms? I think (deprecated template usage) Antioco is the Italian translation, but it's a bugger to confirm. SemperBlotto 22:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi. Antiochian and Antiochan are synonyms, but less usual, especially the latter. The Italian translation is antiocheno or antiochèno for the adjective and the citizen; the city is Antiochia or Antiòchia. I don't know about (deprecated template usage) Antioco. --Vahagn Petrosyan 22:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

It appears that Italian (deprecated template usage) Antioco is the translation of (deprecated template usage) Antiochus. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure about the Romanian? When I visited the Romanian Wikipedia rticle, it seemed to call it an Italian word, and seemed to simply be translated from the English article. I've no confidence that the word is actually Romanian from their Wikipedia entry. --EncycloPetey 02:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I am sure. I used several dictionaries to verify. One Romanian-Russian, one Russian-Romanian and the DEX. --Vahagn Petrosyan 02:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I keep forgetting about the DEX. --EncycloPetey 02:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the correction. It was my independent coinage from ἔργον (érgon, “work”); google books:"ergocratic" backed me up. I think your substitution is etymologically closer to what I meant.  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 00:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Plus, ergatocratic is in the OED, s.v. ergatocracy. Yes, I too have now OED. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:47, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Aah, but said source has ergo-, whereas it lacks ergato-, so the two are fairly equal in terms of argumenta ad verecundiam. I'll collect some citations at some point to see whether there is a difference to be divined between ergatocracy (&c.) and ergocracy (&c.).  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 00:52, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I stole ergato- from Webster's Unabridged. I just looked into citations: “ergatocratic” is 'ruled by workers', “ergocratic” - 'ruled by work'. Both pass CFI and merit inclusion. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

GDGD, just as their etymologies would suggest. We should have them with (deprecated template usage) cf.s in both entries, linking them to each other.  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 00:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi. Why are you doing this? Why not turn neutralize into an alternative spelling of neutralise? Has there been a discussion or decision concerning this issue? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Because I don't have to maintain duplicate translation/etymology/pronunciation sections for the same word. As to why I chose neutralize over neutralise, the answer is because “neutralize” was created first. You know there have been many discussions on this issue but no consensus was achieved. In this situation of no-consensus and no formal rules I am free to make judgment calls. You are free to move the main entry to the British spelling spelling, if that appears fair to you. --Vahagn Petrosyan 08:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

I think it would/will be pretty funny to see the rfd on that. No one would want to say, "I'd never use that phrase."  :-) -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 12:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

^_^ It's on. I'll go grab a bowl of popcorn. --Vahagn Petrosyan 12:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

And forgot what it was because I'm angry, so instead tell me whether or not you hate User:Opiaterein/fa-conjoissie, which naturally will show translit without having to hover or anything. — opiaterein — 18:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

I don't hate it, but why are the English columns on the right? Just because Persians write their letters in the wrong direction, doesn't mean our tables too should be wrong. Make it like {{de-conj}}. I'm glad you're finally making Persian conj-tables. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:11, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

There already were somePersian conj templates... but I decided I didn't like them. Mostly because I'm an arrogant bastard and if I didn't make it it's not good enough. The direction thing did kinda get on my nerves, but I think it looks exotic now haha

On a slightly related note, do you know of a list of all the actual tenses in Persian? I always find sources with wildly different stuff... — opiaterein — 19:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

No, I know nothing about Persian grammar. Sorry. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

It's weird, I don't blame you. — opiaterein — 19:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Oh yeah, look at Tarkanian. I think that's what it was — opiaterein — 18:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Taken care of. --Vahagn Petrosyan 19:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет Вааг.

Если не затруднит, посмотри тему Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#Translating_Sarkozy_and_Berlusconi. Я думаю, что ты что-то знаешь, чего я не знаю :) --Anatoli 03:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Поделился мыслями, хотя на прогресс не рассчитываю. Механизм дискуссий и достижения конкретных решений у нас сломался давно. --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Do you mind if I delete that? I was gonna request the Latin.  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 01:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

I.e.  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 01:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

No matter. EP's added the Latin.  — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 01:56, 8 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sorry Vahagn, I've never blocked an admin before. But you can't go around vandalising pages like that. I look forward to seeing you back in business soon. Ƿidsiþ 09:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

It also discriminates women because they have no ability to vote D: -- Prince Kassad 09:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Of course women can vote. Women usually know more about penises than men do, and are in a better position to judge their size and aesthetic qualities (since they often have broad experience with a number of different ones, while men usually have no experience with more than one and are unable to be objective about it). —Stephen 18:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Heh. Well... — opiaterein — 18:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

But, Widsith, one hour is just too long for the block. Plus, Vahagn's vote must not have been removed. Vahagn has a sense of humour and this is such a precious (for him) and exhilarating (for the people around him) quality. Even though I admit it may be misapprehended or taken literally, it was facetious and harmless, with no malice in it. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 10:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

I agree there was no malice, and I think Vahagn is generally a great editor. Still, I'm sure we can get by unexhilarated for an hour. Ƿidsiþ 10:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

It was a disruptive edit (in that I had to take a little time away from building the wiki to investigate it and then undo it. "disruptive edit" is a valid reason for a block. SemperBlotto 10:23, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well, but Vahagn has the right to vote. By undoing it completely, you erased his vote. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 10:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

but Vahagn has the right to vote No. -- Prince Kassad 10:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

How so? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 10:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

He still has that right. A selective removal of his edit would have taken longer - and I couldn't be bothered. SemperBlotto 10:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

You're all just jealous of my big you-know-what. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Ego? :p Conrad.Irwin 11:50, 15 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yo Vahagn :) Can you possibly make this entry for me please? It is used in a text that I am trying to translate for practice, and this one has me stumped. Thanks, Razorflame 08:11, 17 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the help :) Razorflame 08:20, 17 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет Вааг,

Если найдёшь минутку, добавь перевод на армянский, пожалуйста. Я нашёл транслитерацию прописки: պրոպիսկա. А на грузинский можешь? (Гарнитур генеральши Поповой меня интересует, но меньше :) ) --Anatoli 04:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Привет, армянский добавил, но грузинский не могу. Нам очень нужны грузинские пользователи, но им бы только хачапури жрать, петь и танцевать — работать не хотят... --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

Спасибо :) В Мельбурне тоже хачапури есть. --Anatoli 12:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)Reply

After seeing a very strange example sentence that you added that contained your name, I did a quick search of Wiktionary for "Vahag", and found some very ... odd bits of text in entries: իշլի քյուֆթա usex "Վահագը չի սիրում իշլի քյուֆթա — Vahag does not like kibbeh", Scotch usex "Vahag has drunk a lot of scotch.", երազ etym "Vahag thinks it must be of Iranian origin.", սիգար usex "Վահագը ծխում է սիգար սկոտչի հետ (Vahagë çxum ē sigar skotči het) — Vahag smokes cigar with scotch", ինչու usex "Ինչու՞ է Վահագը սկոտչ սիրում: (Inču ē Vahagë skotč sirum?) — Why does Vahag like Scotch?", բուրբոն usex "Վահագը չի սիրում Ջիմ Բիմ — Vahag does not like Jim Beam" (what is that supposed to be an example of?), պուպուլ usex "աշխարհի ամենամեծ պուպուլը պատկանում է Վահագին — the biggest pee-pee in the world belongs to Vahag", մահկանացու etym "Vahag doesn't know where the middle part -kan- comes from.", հանձինս usex "հանձինս Վահագի մենք ունենք աշխարհի ամենասեքսուալ էակը — in the person of Vahag we have the sexiest creature on Earth", սկոտչ usex "Vahag drinks Blue Label scotch from Johnny Walker.", -ար definition "Found in several words. Vahag doesn't know it's function.", and finally հայ, which contains usexes saying that Cher, Napoleon, Micheal Jackson, Mickey Mouse, Noah, and a large amount of other well-known individuals are Armenian, ending with "Վահագը հայ ա, ամենագլամուռնի հայը: — Vahag is an Armenian, the most glamourous one.". Could you clean these up, and please refrain from editing while drunk in the future? Thank you. --Yair rand (talk) 06:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Oh, and I forgot the original entry. ՛ contains usexes saying "Վահա՛գ, դու աշխարհի ամենասեքսուալ հայն ես: — Vahag, you’re the sexiest Armenian in the world." and "Ի՞նչ ես տանը նստել: Գնա՛, մի էրկու թուրք սպանի՛: — What are you sitting here? Go, kill some Turks!". Hmmmm... --Yair rand (talk) 06:56, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

More searching shows similar edits in other entries. վիսկի usex "Vahagn Petrosyan drinks Jack Daniel's whisky.", մանսարդ usex "Petrosyan Vahagn lives in his glamourous mansard." (now removed). Please don't do things like this again, and please try to remove any similar edits that you happen to remember doing. --Yair rand (talk) 07:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

No. All those are valid usexes. I will not refrain from adding valid examples with my name in it, unless you show me where exactly WT:USEX prohibits that. If you can replace my examples with more illustrative ones, go ahead. Re killing Turks: very common expression among Armenians. Re my comments in etymology sections: they are useful, they acknowledge the presence of unresolved problems not addressed in available dictionaries. Finally, would you Jews climb out of my ass already? Go edit Hebrew, it has less then half the number of Armenian + Old Armenian entries I have made single-handed with my "drunk edits". --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

• They are not usexes that we want at Wiktionary. We would rather have no usexes than those. Also, please keep politics and ethnic hatred off Wiktionary. DCDuring TALK 11:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I love your use of "we" there. — opiaterein — 14:22, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

It is my prediction of the outcome of a vote - should it come to that. DCDuring TALK 14:48, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Let's vote not only on using your own name in example sentences, but also on using anyone from your own religion, gender or age bracket. — opiaterein — 15:10, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I used some Wiktionarians' names in example sentences, usually inspired by RC activity. Yours on e.g. ]. I hope you're not sexually offended. --Ivan Štambuk 18:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sexually honored, more like. — opiaterein — 18:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Uncertain comments in ety sections might be useful but should not be egotistically adorned with your name. Equinox ◑ 15:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Yes, that's the only issue Yair brings up that I would take at all seriously. — opiaterein — 15:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Such childish usexes would bring a block upon any other user. Please stop making them and go through the entries and clean them out. DCDuring is right. WE don't want them here. Anti-Semitic and other racist comments are also not allowed here. We've all got our prejudices, but they have no place on this project. C'mon Vahagn, this is all dictated by common sense. I've made a few drunk edits myself, but let's not pretend like they belong. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:47, 9 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

We're not talking about any other user. We're talking about the man who single-handedly made the English wiktionary the best English-Eastern Armenian dictionary online. What you call childishness I call joie de vivre and to be honest I think you guys are just jealous you can't get as much done, even without booze. So, suck it up and get something done. — opiaterein — 00:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

There is no arguing the extraordinary Armenian work, but being one of our more productive editors does not exclude a person from our editing and civility standards. Also, let me just say that I've put an assload of work into this project, and continue to do so, so the latter argument's pretty weak. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I don't have prejudices against Jews. I love and admire Jews. I have prejudices against sanctimonious people who think there are untouchable topics and untouchable peoples. Everybody is mockable, Jews including. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Bullshit. Were this an isolated incident you might have a shot at convincing me, but it's not. You obviously do have a prejudice against Jews, and I'm not the only person here who's sick of your sporadic anti-Semitic comments (and not the only non-Jew, if that means anything). Your work here is brilliant, and I'm glad you're here, but pull it together a little, man. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I can't be anti-Semitic, I haven't met a single Jew in my life. If you look around, I have made Turk-jokes, Puerto-Rican jokes, Gypsy-jokes, black-jokes, Georgian-jokes, Muslim-jokes... Jew-jokes eventually became more numerous as a reverse reaction to harassment from Mushy and Ruakh and claims from other Jews that they are exclusive and cannot be mocked. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:53, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

You're hardly defending yourself when you explain that your reaction, on discovering that you've offended people, is to intentionally aggravate the offense. (Incidentally, could you link to any of the claims you say you've received? Honestly, I'm guessing you're full of it; I cannot imagine an editor saying that it's O.K. to mock all those other groups, as long as you lay off the Jews.) —Ruakh_TALK 00:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

12th comment from above in this discussion. Now let's se who started all this: my first block for my first ever Jew-joke here. Was it offensive? Really? Seriously? Another block for my second Jew-joke. Was that one offensive? --Vahagn Petrosyan 01:24, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Neskaya stated that anti-Semitic jokes aren't ok. They didn't say that they're exclusively so. I'm all for joking around, even in a tasteless and/or macabre fasion, but in a world with a whole lot of genuine racism, let's just avoid jokes on that topic. I mean, if some random Turk made an offhand joke about how bad burning Armenians smell, you probably wouldn't take it as funny, right, because there's some genuine and ghastly history there. Likewise, the Jews have done their fair share of genuine suffering at the hands of anti-Semites (I suspect we don't need any links on that), and so it's understandable if they're a little touchy on the subject. Feel free to make fun of people, but just try and avoid quips about a whole race/religion/etc, eh? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Neskaya's statement was in response to opio's question "why isn't it ok to joke about jews being evil?". Neskaya immediately equated stereotype-jokes with "anti-Semitism" and called them absolutely unacceptable. Why can't one joke that Jews are evil? I never made Holocaust jokes, my Jew-jokes are tasteful and funny. It is ok to joke that Armenians are hairy, that Russians are drunkards, that English have bad teeth, that Welsh fornicate with sheep, that Americans are stupid and fat! Why am I not allowed to joke that Jews are evil? Why did Msh block me for completely innocuous joke? Why did he and Ruakh keep harassing me after that? When after all this Yair Rand came moralizing me about 5 joke-usexes, you can understand how I could snap at him like that. So I made few joke (but still valid) usexes among thousands ordinary ones. Boo-hoo! For gods sakes, you copy-pasted large chunks of copyrighted LSJ 9th edition to Wiktionary; worry about that. --Vahagn Petrosyan 02:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Allow me to try and explain: No discriminatory, racist, or offensive jokes are acceptable, according to the overwhelming majority of the Wiktionary community. No incivil comments are acceptable. No insults, personal attacks, overly snide remarks, rude or offensive behavior, or any action of personally targeted behavior that causes an atmosphere of greater conflict and stress among the Wiktionary community. Does that sound reasonable to you? --Yair rand (talk) 08:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Again, my jokes are offensive only if you have a distorted worldview wherein you're a member of an untouchable God-chosen race. Of course you can pretend they are offensive, brand me as an anti-Semite, and "chastize" me to boost your community karma as a protector of the poor and oppressed, which is what some people I respected did in this topic. As for "causing greater conflict", it's your nagging me about valid usexes, then vandalizing all of them that promotes bad atmosphere on Wiktionary, not my comments. --Vahag 12:03, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Oh, shut up. If you've never met a Jew in real life, and every Jew you've met on Wiktionary agrees that your anti-Semitic "jokes" here are offensive, then obviously the problem is with your understanding of what is offensive to Jews, not with each of us having some "distorted worldview". Anti-Semitic bullshit like "Jews are evil" and "Jews are trying to take over" is offensive not just because it patently is, but because many people worldwide actually believe it — heck, publication of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion has resumed in some countries — and it's motivated many a synagogue-bombing and Jewish-cemetery–defacement within the past decade alone. If you don't understand why we find your "jokes" offensive and threatening, or can't accept that it's reasonable that we find them so, then that's unfortunate; but you do need to accept that we find them so, and that many or most other Jews would, and that you should therefore stop making them anyway. I'm sorry to tell you that you have to change your ways without understanding why, but you do have to change your ways, and if you don't understand why, then that's just the way it is. (And yes, you should stop making jokes about all those other groups as well. But if your jokes had remained relatively harmless — making fun of Jews' big noses, say, rather than our alleged evil scheming — I don't think we'd be needing to have this conversation.) —Ruakh_TALK 12:55, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have trouble seeing how a stereotype like the big-nosed Jew is less offensive than the clearly silly idea that Jews or more evil (than Muslims?!?!) or that a 1% of the world demographic wants to control the world. I'm thinking maybe the problem is that you've picked an arbitrary line that you can't cross. Which stereotypes would it be acceptable to mention?

Anyway, it's not like Jewish wiktionarians are giving Vahag any reason to be positive about Jews. As far as I've seen, you all haven't been remarkably friendly with him, so why does he have any reason to think Jews aren't evil assholes? Maybe if someone said "can you please not talk like that? We'd realy appreciate it" instead of "stop that you racist cunt" you might get somewhere. — opiaterein — 13:20, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

To you, perhaps, the idea is "clearly silly". But do you have any idea how many synagogues have been bombed, how many synagogues and Jewish cemeteries defaced, because of that idea, in the past decade alone? Just Google synagogue bombings and skim through the hits. (And woah, please don't go around saying that Muslims are evil, either. I don't know if we have any Muslim editors, but if we do, then they surely deserve better treatment than your casual implication there.)

If you have trouble seeing why it's so offensive, even threatening, then that's your business, but it doesn't really change anything. It's still offensive, even threatening, whether or not you see why. This is a problem that privileged groups often have — they don't understand why a targeted group is bothered by something, and they think that their inability to understand it is somehow relevant. It's not. I'd like it if you understood, obviously — and if you want to e-mail me, I'm happy to try to explain further — but it doesn't really change anything.

Anyway, Vahag isn't giving non-Armenians a reason to be positive about Armenians, either — did you notice his statement above that he's started making more Jewish "jokes" recently because he's realized that it pisses us off? — but I still have the good sense to assume that Armenians are a diverse bunch, and even if he's made some stupid decisions and I don't get along with him, I'm not going to start making anti-Armenian comments now.

—Ruakh_TALK 13:40, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I enjoy your assumption that I'm somehow privileged. Minus the enjoyment. Some of us are not only in huge minorities, but minorities within even those minorities. Not exactly privileged, unless if by privileged you mean not Jewish. Your argument has an air of self-victimization which I understand, but which I can never take seriously. It's not quite as bad as mentioning Hitler or the Nazis, but it has the same I'm-running-out-of-arguments-so-I'll-pull-this-easy-one feel to it. There's no need for you to explain further. I understand what you're saying, but I prefer the right to free speech to your right to not ever be offended. — opiaterein — 14:45, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I am offended and annoyed by ethnic, religious, nationalistic, sexual preferential, or ageist insults etc, whether or not directed at anything that folks may attribute to me. I don't even like these discussions. If I didn't dislike rules so much, all discussions of any individual's ethnicity, religion, etc would simply be banned. Insults of these kinds seem as bad as personal insults. I find it very hard to AGF regarding folks who have recourse to such a manner of discourse. DCDuring TALK 15:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

What assumption? Are you now claiming you're Jewish? I'm not saying you're privileged in all ways, I'm saying you're privileged in this way. (I'm also privileged in many ways — I'm white, I'm upper-middle-class, I'm a man, I'm an American, I speak Standard English as a native language, etc., etc., etc. — and neither my gayness nor my Jewishness changes that. Heck, gayness and Jewness both count as privilege in some situations. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just something to be aware of. Neither my "minority" status, nor my right to free speech, makes it O.K. for me to knowingly offend a targeted group.) —Ruakh_TALK 15:32, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Also, at the risk of sounding totalitarian here … freedom is an essential part of life that requires no justification, but that doesn't mean it's an essential part of Wiktionary discussions. On Wiktionary all edits should be constructive toward building the dictionary, or at least trying to be. This doesn't mean all comments must be completely on-topic and joke-free (building the community is constructive), but I think it's within bounds to say that some kinds of destructive speech are unacceptable, even on talk-pages, as long as there's a clear reason for the restriction (and as long as we don't go all Gestapo about it, since that can have a destructive effect of its own). —Ruakh_TALK 18:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

By the way, returning to the original topic for a moment: I think most of the usexes are pretty OK. Google suggests that Vahag(n) is a reasonably common Armenian name, so while we know that Vahagn is talking about himself in the third person, our readers won't. It's not as though every Armenian entry included that name. The definitions and etymologies that Yair mentions are problematic, as is the usex that doesn't include the headword (though I assume that one was simply a mistake), but the bulk of the usexes don't seem to be worth making a fuss over. (Of course, this does not justify Vahagn's "snap at him" with anti-Jewish animus. But that's a separate issue.) —Ruakh_TALK 13:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I, of course, appreciate any recognition that we are not representative of normal users. We could leave the usexes, but the behavior is to be discouraged. Allowing inclusion of personal names of contributors in usage examples invites the use of usexes as a tool for provoking or waging interpersonal and other battles on our pages. I suppose we could allow it and use it as a marker of possible or likely bad behavior. DCDuring TALK 14:36, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Look, it's a bit childish, but if it's the most childish thing going on here, then we're really doing OK. I don't really agree with your second sentence. Allowing anyone and everyone in the world to contribute invites the use of Wiktionary as a tool for all kinds of evil (though fortunately mw:Extension:StabInFace has not yet been installed here), but we do it anyway. Certainly a usex could both use the first name of a contributor and be a problem, but I really don't see that the former entails the latter, and if our best way of addressing the latter is to ban the former, then we do have a problem. (Especially because all the really common names are taken, at least for English. Though we don't have very many woman contributors at the moment, so I suppose that leaves half the name-space open.) —Ruakh_TALK 14:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I am not advocating a rule. I am advocating good user behavior. This is by no means the worst behavior we experience here. However, based on casual observation, I suspect that it positively correlates (statistically) with some much worse user behavior. DCDuring TALK 15:24, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

I think I see what you mean. More generally, not taking things seriously seems to correlate here with being obnoxious to those who do take things seriously. (Though in some cases it may be an affectation; I've seen several things deemed "jokes" after-the-fact that didn't seem like jokes to me.) Certainly, if users want to straighten up and fly right, I'm not going to stand in their way. —Ruakh_TALK 16:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Could you do one of these for Armenian? That'd be awesome. — opiaterein — 00:14, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

You sure do like physics :) Isn't there a nice university in your North Dakota you can go to? --Vahag 11:36, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Lol physics is fascinating, but I'm really horrible at math and science. But it's North Carolina, North Dakota is across the country and even as much as I dislike NC, I'd much rather stay here :D — opiaterein — 13:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Dakota, Carolina, what's the difference? I don't have to remember the administrative divisions of your puny country. No, wait, I know California, it has Schwarzenegger and 1 mln Armenians. Then I know Florida, because it's shaped like a penis. Then there's Tennessee, they make Jack Daniel's there. I also know Louisiana, hillbillies and crocodiles live there. Yes, Utah; it has all those crazy sectants... The only good state you've got is Massachusetts. --Vahag 16:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply

Massachusetts is way too close to New Jersey. But it's true, I can't think of any state that would be ideal. Florida is shaped like a very sad penis, though. — opiaterein — 16:33, 13 July 2010 (UTC)Reply