Wiktionary:Grease pit/2025/July

in Category:Terms containing unencoded characters, there are many entries with unsupported titles due to technical restrictions. for the purpose of this topic, I am focusing on the ones that are absent from Unicode. these are of interest to me, and I want to edit these in the future. before that, I want to lay down some consensus on how to name these pages, as it is currently a mixture of several systems. ignoring the Han characters, these are subpages in Unsupported titles and are tagged with {{wrongtitle}}. below is a general proposal:

Pages for characters not encoded in Unicode are included as subpages under the Unsupported titles mainspace page. The title should provide a short and simple description of the character. If the unencoded character is composed of other encoded characters (as in a ligature or variation), include them in the title. Symbols and ligatures should be indicated. These titles should use the capitalization guidelines according to Wiktionary:Capitalization.

As exceptions, characters using combining characters should be located at that title, even if it these are poorly supported in current fonts. Unencoded Han characters should use Ideographic Description Characters.

this move mean moving the following pages:

• B with left hook → b with left hook
• b-beta ligature → b-β ligature
• Church ruins → church ruins symbol
• Cifrão → cifrão
• D with hook and tail → d with hook and tail
• Double qoppa → double qoppa
• Double qoppa with diaeresis → double qoppa with diaeresis
• g-gamma ligature → ɡ-ɣ ligature (use U+0261)
• Hɥ ligature → h-ɥ ligature
• Latin small letter reversed f → reversed f
• Linearized tilde → linearized tilde
• Mid macron → mid macron
• Old Israeli shekel → old Israeli shekel
• p-phi ligature → p-φ ligature
• Pansexual → pansexual symbol
• q-chi ligature → q-χ ligature
• Reversed r → reversed r
• Turned ezh → turned ʒ
• Turned small cap A → turned small cap A
• Turned small cap U → turned small cap U
• Z with left hook → z with left hook

I would like to request an easier way to include images in the head templates, especially {{mul-symbol}}, for easier editing and to deal with night mode, by adding class=skin-invert-image:

• input: {{mul-symbol|image=c-ç affricate ligature.svg}}
• output:

Juwan (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Most of these changes seem reasonable to me, but I wonder if, in the case of things like p-phi vs p-φ or ezh vs ʒ, we should prefer to keep the more easily typeable form. (Then again, I suppose people might not often have to type these...) If people do prefer φ to phi, etc, then why qoppa and not ϟ...? Oh, is it (as ϟ implies) not actually using qoppa, just a similar shape, in which case perhaps ϟ#Zulu should also be moved to an unsupported title and both should use some other name...? (Or do other people, not just us, identify the Norwegian-Zulu symbol as qoppa?) - -sche (discuss) 19:47, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

typability may not be a priority when we have entries for marginal characters using their Unicode points. I would be in support for keeping the easier ones as redirect (p-phi to p-φ, or vice-versa depending on what others think. my opinion on this detail is not too strong). Juwan (talk) 19:59, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

A related issue: at Proto-Indo-European *gʰerdʰ-, the Phrygian name for the city spelled in Ancient Greek as Γόρδιον (Górdion) looks like it's in the Phrgian script- but that hasn't been added to Unicode yet. Instead it's a hodgepodge of (sort of) lookalike characters from various historically related scripts. I'm not sure what we can do about that, but I thought I'd mention it. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:19, 7 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

as I have thought for some type, I have changed my mind slightly. I believe that it would be better to rename these pages similar to Unicode points (if a glyph is currently in a proposal, then use that proposed name). later, I will compile another list in this manner. pinging @-sche for the second request (see also Template talk:mul-symbol). Juwan (talk) 14:08, 15 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I want to add this word as it is used in today's modern hipster community and its popularity rises. for some reason i get blocked.

suggested content:

Coined in the early 21st century; possibly a blend of miasma and chaotic, or an original invention to describe destructive social behavior in the face of existential threats.

• IPA(key): /ˈmaɪ.ə.tɪk/, /ˈmiː.ə.tɪk/
• Hyphenation: Mi‧at‧ic

miatic (comparative more miatic, superlative most miatic)

1. Relating to a situation in which, when faced with an existential threat, people or groups begin to fight each other rather than unite, even though cooperation is the only path to survival.

Often used to describe political or social collapse scenarios in which infighting obstructs effective collective response.

• self-destructive
• divisive
• fratricidal (figurative)

• unified
• cooperative
• solidaric

• miatia (alternative noun form)
• miatium (pseudo-Latin variant)

• The evacuation effort became miatic when rival factions sabotaged each other’s escape plans.
• A miatic response to climate change is the most dangerous outcome imaginable.

miatic (plural miatics)

1. A condition or dynamic of internal conflict in the face of a common existential threat.

• The pandemic response was shaped by a dangerous miatic.
• Many historians now refer to the fall of the republic as a miatic.

77.126.21.9 18:20, 3 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

The reason your edit was stopped by an abuse filter is that the formatting is all wrong- see our Entry layout page. As for the content, a quick search on Google didn't turn up any usage that meets the requirements of our Criteria for inclusion. Wiktionary is a descriptive dictionary based on usage- no usage, no entry. Period. If you had succeeded to create your entry, it would have either been deleted as "no usable content given"/"creative invention or protologism", or it would have been tagged with {{rfv|en}} for verification of usage and deleted if not enough usage was found to meet CFI. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:40, 3 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

When =true was added to Module:labels/data/lang,Template:label/list failed with the error:

Lua error in Module labels at line 354: attempt to call method 'find' (a nil value)

I haven't been able to find anything obviously wrong in the data submodule. It does have a lot of lists in the regional_categories parameter where most modules have a single value, but that should be allowed according to the documentation at Module:labels/data (which, incidentally, says: "See the documentation of Module:labels/data for more detailed information"). Is this something wrong with the data submodule, the template and/or Module:labels doc, or some combination of the above? Chuck Entz (talk) 20:31, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'll take a look but I suspect the issue may be with the `parent` settings, which are lists and should probably be strings or the value `true` per the documentation. If that's the case, I'll make the code throw a more sensible error. Benwing2 (talk) 21:18, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Actually I think it's line 77, where `display` is being set to a list, because the error is in processing the `display` field. Benwing2 (talk) 21:24, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

OK, I added type checking, so now we get approximately:

Lua error: Module:labels:131: For label 'Zêkog', langcode 'bo', property 'display' should be of type 'string' but is of type 'table' with value 'table#1 {

metatable = table#2

"Zêkog",

}'

Benwing2 (talk) 21:54, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi there!

I recently added a modern reclaimed usage of "assface" as a slang verb (e.g., "to assface your life" — meaning to turn your health or habits around after burnout or unhealthy choices). The usage is humorous and informal, and it has gained some traction in connection with a real-world nutrition plan called the ASSFACE Diet® (Trademarked by the USPTO, seria number 98144933), and plays off the acronym “Added Sugar Sucks, Fruits and Veggies Also contain, Carbs, Eat Those.”

I noticed the addition was reverted, and I completely understand Wiktionary's standards for attestation and avoiding brand-heavy content. I'm more than happy to reformat or rephrase the entry to keep it non-promotional and in line with community guidelines. I can also provide examples of usage in published articles and online platforms if that helps support inclusion.

Would it be possible to get feedback on how best to format or cite this so it meets Wiktionary’s standards?

Thank you so much! H1e2a3t4 (talk) 21:47, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

There are zero Google search hits for "assface your life". Are you the inventor of this phrase, trying to promote your trademarked diet? 2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:99CF:F100:308A:414D 21:53, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Would we change the example golpe de estado in Template:es-noun#Multiword expressions, because it's a masculine, not feminine phrase. Gender is later mentioned in the text, but I dunno with what purpose. ※Sobreira ◣◥ 〒 @「parlez」 22:11, 7 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Fixed. This was because I copied over the text from Template:pt-noun/documentation and didn't manage to convert it completely. Benwing2 (talk) 03:06, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 00:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

in many quotations from Reddit, I have noticed that subreddits are treated as "locations", while this parameter as far as I know is reserved for physical locations. I ask then, how should these be handled, and when a decision is reached, may a bot be deployed to automatically fix these and warn for future uses? Juwan (talk) 10:55, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I put it under |work=, since the r/subreddit syntax is widely understood as referring to a subreddit. Fay Freak (talk) 21:56, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Fay Freak is Reddit a publisher then? it still needs to be presented somewhere. Juwan (talk) 22:36, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@JnpoJuwan: yeah, I don't think that's a correct use of |location=. I don't use Reddit, but maybe |work= could be used to specify the subreddit like this: |work=r/subreddit, Reddit. — Sgconlaw (talk) 23:15, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: I use |format= because we use it for Usenet (e.g., “net.unix (Usenet)”). J3133 (talk) 05:27, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Would there be a not too time-consuming way of having some script search for all Rigveda lines mentioned here in the form of "insource:/Q\|sa\|\|RV\|1\|8\|8/" and so on? Exarchus (talk) 18:14, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

OK, my solution can now be found at the bottom of this page. Exarchus (talk) 14:30, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I went to add some information from the DCHP-3 at https://dchp.arts.ubc.ca/ and found that {{R:DCHP}} already exists, but it only has links to the first and second editions and is linked to a different URI. Before I tinker with it, I just want to check and see if there's any good reason that it should keep on linking there instead of https://dchp.arts.ubc.ca/. @Mzajac, Sgconlaw: as the primary editors on that template. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:46, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Koavf: I’d say just add on functionality to allow for the 3rd edition to be referenced, in case there are differences between the editions. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:41, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

It includes material from all three editions. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:46, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Koavf: if there is a consistent way to refer to all the editions in the new website, then go ahead and switch the URL. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:51, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi everyone,

I was trying to create this category, and it disallowed me. I was unable to use {{auto cat}} so I just created a blank page. However, it said it was "probably vandalism". Please help. Thanks! 106.51.177.7 04:53, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Currently, the quotation at मूष् (mūṣ) has 'vyàdánti' when I specify it to be 'vyàdanti', and at वेश्य (veśya) it has 'vyáìráṃ' when I'm telling it to be 'vyaìraṃ'.
What does this 'subst' parameter actually do under the hood? Exarchus (talk) 16:45, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Reading Template:Q, maybe 'subst' isn't exactly intended to have transliterated text after the slashes. Simply use |tr= with the whole quote then? But it works at e.g. कुह (kuha). Exarchus (talk) 16:51, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

A substitution parameter that would intervene after the transliteration (with something like tr_subst=vyadanti//vyàdanti) would certainly be helpful for Sanskrit to indicate independent svarita's. With |tr=, one has to remember to put the right word in bold, and for good measure an outcommented note should be added for why the transliteration is there, which could run the risk of getting removed. And all that for one silly accent. Exarchus (talk) 18:03, 10 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I found a possible solution using ᳡: subst=व्य॑दन्ति//व्य᳡दन्ति (this code does show up with boxes in some browsers/fonts) Exarchus (talk) 08:49, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've been suggested about the English words used to know.
Examples:

• police stabbing (countable)
• technology (uncountable)
• bass drop (uncountable)
• community (countable)

2001:44C8:411C:6CB0:D003:1952:C051:4A02 05:39, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry, your comment isn't clear. Can you explain further? Thanks. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:02, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Many (most? all?) English nouns can be used both countably and uncountably, though not necessarily with sufficient attestation to warrant inclusion or mention. IMO, all of the terms listed can be used both ways. For common cases we try to have distinct definitions for countable and uncountable uses. One the inflection line {{en-noun}} allows: "usually uncountable; plural ..."; "uncountable"; "countable and uncountable; plural ...". Missing is "usually countable". Definition line labels are more reliable when present. DCDuring (talk) 15:46, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can someone with the perms add "rsk" (for Pannonian Rusyn) to langs_to_generate_syllable_count_categories? The vowels are a ɛ i ɔ u, with no exceptions. Diphthongs are transcribed solely with and . Thanks. Insaneguy1083 (talk) 13:51, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Done. Benwing2 (talk) 04:04, 14 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I wish to create a series of networks-specific templates to simplify the addition of quotations from these social media. however, I am not great at wikicode, I request that others please take a look at my work also continue adding further templates. in the talk pages for the existing templates, I have left some checklists for features that I would want added.

• {{RQ:Twitter}} (alias {{RQ:X}})
• {{RQ:Reddit}}

to be created:

• {{RQ:Bluesky}}
• {{RQ:Fediverse}}
  • primarly the microblogging services (at first): Mastodon, Misskey, Pleroma, etc.
• {{RQ:Tumblr}}
• {{RQ:YouTube}}

some platforms, such as Instragram and TikTok, (I assume) due to searchability and archiving concerns are not widely used on Wiktionary and do not need to be templatised. Juwan (talk) 14:09, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@JnpoJuwan: I think it first needs to be ascertained which social media platforms the community has agreed are durably archived media in order to comply with WT:CFI, and these platforms should be listed somewhere. (Personally, I am unsure which ones satisfy this requirement.) Otherwise, we are putting the cart before the horse. (I made a similar comment at the discussion on a related proposal below.) — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:44, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw thank you for pinging me about the proposal below. I will continue there, as it has a similar scope to mine. Juwan (talk) 19:51, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I request the creation of a new inline modifier vern: to replicate the usage of the {{vern}} template in list templates, such as for column templates ({{col}}) and for semantic relation templates. below is an example of the requested formatting, going from a separate synonym list to an inline list with {{syn}}:

====Synonyms====
* {{vern|en|African lynx}}, {{vern|Asian lynx}}, {{vern|Indian lynx}}, {{vern|Persian lynx}}, {{l|en|desert lynx}} {{qualifier|varying with location}}; {{l|en|lynx}} {{qualifier|improper}}

{{syn|en|vern:African lynx|vern:Asian lynx|vern:Indian lynx|vern:Persian lynx|vern:desert lynx<q:varying with location>|lynx<q:improper>}}

Juwan (talk) 14:24, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I request that a new template be created to display a gallery of emojis from different sources. I tried to make one at {{U:mul:emoji gallery}} but encountered the issue that the gallery syntax is stubborn and doesn't let wikicode inside it, it seems. the parameter is supposed to be the Unicode codepoint (in lowercase without a prefix), there are tools to handle this but I lack the knowledge to use them. I would appreciate if someone could take a look. Juwan (talk) 18:26, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can we get the tok language code added to Module:category tree/lang? I've created a submodule Module:category_tree/lang/tok and am trying to get it to work with categories like Category:Toki Pona words classified as uncommon in sona Linku. Thanks, LesVisages (talk) 23:28, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

The Spanish phrase rendición de cuentas means "accountability," but we have no page on it. (See here for proof.) Could someone please set up a page for rendición de cuentas? Could someone also please place a link to that page on the rendición page? 103.113.205.85 08:39, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

This page is not really the venue for this kind of request. The Grease Pit is for technical issues. You want Wiktionary:Requested entries (Spanish). I will add your request there. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:43, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

We have {{quote-newsgroup}} and {{cite-newsgroup}}, which are still useful — and I have seen used in quite a few entries — however:

1. They are limited in their scope: modern social media have virtually infinite content, orders of magnitude more than Usenet could have ever dream of, with great many posts and comments to quote or cite from, which is useful especially for slang entries — some of which are attested only on those spaces.
2. They are widely used, much more so than forums, and richer in text content than they, which means we should have specific templates for them, but not for forums.
3. Usenet quotations are useful for historical or timeless slang; for anything newer or recenter, there's only social media content (which is also useful for historical slang, because no longer only people in their teens and early 20s use it ; and for timeless slang, because all age groups use it by definition).
4. Quotations from Twitter have been used here already in a number of entries, by means of {{quote-web}}; I myself have quoted from Reddit and Threads.
5. {{quote-web}} should be used only for general websites: social media sites are fundamentally different in content, the generation thereof, and in structure (including groups/communities).
6. Contributors need a unified, standardized way to quote and cite social media, to make our content more consistent, and {{quote-web}} is simply not (well-)made for that.
7. If a term was coined in a social medium and we need to cite the original post in the Etymology section, a social-network citation template ought to be the most appropriate and fitting.
8. Usenet is obsolete — and has been since discussion forums were invented in two thousand and long ago (in the '90s... perchance); long live Reddit! (its spiritual successor).
9. Emojis!!!! (We have entries for them all; we need quotations for those, and what better place to find 'em than social media‽)

Edit: I started this thinking about the likes of {{quote-newsgroup}} and Reddit only, but now I realize that {{quote-web}} should be the focus of the discussion (in that regard), because it's the one Wiktionarians use in the absence of this proposed template.

For those reasons, I propose the creation of new such templates, catered for social media sources specifically (the mostly text ones, so we exclude video/photo ones like YouTube, TikTok, Instagram etc. There's {{quote-av}} for that).
At first, I had been thinking of {{quote-reddit}} and {{quote-twitter}} (because {{quote-x}} sounded pretty bad), but now I think that one all-encompassing template is better.
Therefore, here are my ideas:
> names: {{quote-social}} and {{cite-social}};
> supported social networks: Reddit, Twitter, Threads, Facebook (maybe Quora too?), and others;
> supported Fediversal networks: Mastodon (and its forks), Bluesky, MeWe, Pleroma, Micro.blog, Misskey, and others;
> should not support obsolete ones like Myspace and Orkut;
> shall intelligently recognize the social network by its domain name in the provided source url (including shortened ones like t.co, fb.me and redd.it), so no need to give it explicitly by name (we won't need something like {{quote-journal}}'s type=magazine/news/journal parameter);
> any other URLs outside those which they use shall be invalid (wayback machine urls are valid iff the archived url is valid);
> just like with the existing templates, there shall be no need to specify number of likes/upvotes/shares/comments to the template, nor to show those on its output — just like quote-book doesn't show how many copies a book has sold; such vanity numbers have no value or place in a dictionary.

See information on the templates' parameters and usage examples here.
(Also see there the original entries I based the examples on; it's an inconsistent mess without those templates!)

Anyone willing to take on this project if this proposal is accepted?
Note: I have programming experience (with Python, C, shell scripts, etc.) and know wikitext and have edited templates before (example); however, I am not proficient in Lua nor in template programming, so I'll be glad to help and learn along the way, but I cannot carry this project out by myself as of now.

Any further ideas (including for parameters), whether to add, change or remove, will be appreciated.
Bytekast (talk) 17:36, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sorry that I'm not understanding here, but what is a "general website" versus a social media website? I still don't understand why a social media website is inherently different from anything else on the Web. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:47, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

A "general website" is one with either a single author or a professional team of authors, who produce content for it, usually content with a specific end, such as to entertain, (mis)inform, tell the news, give tips, etc. Pages may have a comment section, but that's not true for all sites, and definitely wasn't before Web 2.0. Examples: blogs, news sites, magazines, knowledge hubs, wikis, etc.

As for "social media websites", their content has no single author, nor a team — no one went there and created the site to write about something. Rather, there is a multitude of users, billions or hundreds of millions of authors, each writing their own thing, sharing each other's content (the closest we have to that on general sites are "blog pinging" and reproduction of content from another source); they may write with a purpose, or with none (just to vent or out of boredom). There are groups/communities (as I mention in my proposal), likes/dislikes, comments (which have always been present as a feature, and are more interactive than discussional). They are fundamentally different, yes.

In short: a general website is a formal producer of content, akin to the press in essence, while a social medium is an informal free space to socialize and write anything you want, anytime you want. Bytekast (talk) 18:01, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

No objection in principle, but such a quotation template should be limited to social media platforms that the community has agreed are durably archived media in order to comply with WT:CFI, and these platforms should be listed somewhere. (Personally, I am unsure which ones satisfy this requirement.) Otherwise, we are putting the cart before the horse. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:40, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think every social media website is prone to ephemerality. They can't be durable; the durability of their content is unstable by their nature, because at anytime can the user delete what they wrote, or their account be suspended, or the written content be edited by them. The most durable socials in my opinion are Facebook and Reddit, which are also (comparatively) pretty old by the way. Do you know what's a durably archived medium? The Internet Archive's Wayback Machine! Unlike social media, it has been around for a long time and likely will remain so for centuries. That's why I proposed (see the archiveurl parameter in the TemplateProposal appendix) an autoarchiving feature for those templates (both quote & cite), which'd be unique to them, to avoid that pitfall of social media. And of course, we won't quote social media content for everything; most entries will keep quoting books, journals, the web at large, etc. The thing is that, when there's a slang word or a neologism that's better attested in social media than anywhere else, among other situations for use, there should be a specialized template readily available to showcase usage of said term, and to reference its etymology. Bytekast (talk) 19:23, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've never seen this distinction before and I still think it's false and arbitrary: as you pointed out, it's common for blogs and online newspapers to have comment sections. Plus there are parts of the Internet that are not social media sites or even the Web at all that function by having someone post online without an editor: message boards, BBSes, and Usenet for example. To get in the weeds, I really don't see why we should make a distinction between current and defunct sites or how you chose MySpace, which is not actually defunct, etc. This just all seems totally unnecessary and needlessly complex for no benefit. Citing and quoting websites is already done here in a rational and structured way and I don't see the need to exempt certain kinds of websites based on their content or the credentials of who writes said content. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:00, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

There'll always be disagreements. I just hope I can gather enough support here because I think it's a great idea, it'd improve the formatting of quotations from social media posts and replies, it separates two pretty distinct kinds of websites (just as quote-book and quote-journal do for their own written kinds, and also quote-av vs quote-song). Yes, it absolutely is an arbitrary distinction, which I made up for the purposes of this dictionary, of quoting and citing in it, and nothing else. That's why you haven't seen it anywhere else. Quoting from a website article vs a tweet require different formatting, metadata (info), and even linking. There's no publisher, no location (let's preserve "OP's" privacy!), not even a title (!), and no translator or editor, plus archiving can be automatic. That's why I deem using quote-web for social media to be inappropriate. Bytekast (talk) 19:34, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Support for the proposal. this is a long time coming, I have made a similar proposal above for particularly popular sites, which may these templates as a base (and which may be made more compact to suit each individual one). the idea of forbidding other links is a bit silly to me. there are many more social networks than just the ones you mentioned, including decentralised ones. no other templates has this behaviour.

regarding WT:CFI (as mentioned by Sgconlaw above), one may open a separate discussion thread or vote specific to this. my thoughts is that "durably archived" needs to be better redefined. on the Internet, almost everything may be durably archived by third-party services, including the Wayback Machine (run by the Internet Archive) or archive.today. the exceptions to this are some Javascript heavy sites, which are often not snapshotted correctly or purposely deter snapshotting; only these should be forbidden from use based on archive durability. Juwan (talk) 20:10, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Websites with embedded media are also frequently difficult if not impossible to effectively archive and those make up the substantial majority of MB of content on the Web, unfortunately. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:52, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yet another reason for the template to support only text-first social media! (In the spirit of quote-web, quote-book and quote-song.) Bytekast (talk) 11:47, 15 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

In drafting that proposal, I too had thought about that, that this kind of template has been due for years now — 10+ or so. We have quote-web and quote-newsgroup, and their cite- counterparts, so it follows that a "quote social media" template (or quote-social as I've tersely called it, and cite-social) should exist to complete this group: the general web ---- Usenet ---- social media.

The template has to restrict itself that way, by "forbidding" other links (or dismissing them as invalid), because it is restricted by its definition — it's for social networks only, a small subset of websites (and not only that: only those text-first socials are to be supported, no video- or photo-first ones... lest we allow meme ones like MemeDroid), whereas quote-web and quote-book (e. g.) are virtually infinite in their scope (there are uncountably many sites and books). So we can either trust the contributor's judgment and let them put whatever link there, knowing it's a social net one, or we could prevent misuse and formalize/officialize the template's restricted scope by, say, writing a data module with a Lua associative array containing all supported social media sites, their names, hostnames, alias links (t.co, fb.me), user prefix (@, u/, none), etc. you know, like we do with languages and their ISO codes (the number of which is higher than of the socials), and then using that big table in the main module. We cannot allow links to news sites, Vimeo videos, or TikTok comments: it's not made for that.

Oh yeah, the Fediverse! I swear I'd thought of including Mastodon among the supported ones, but somehow forgot to (while writing too much). I'm going to include all the other ones (besides Bluesky, which was already there), and we will need special support for that kind of social network (like we'll have special support for Reddit) in the template code. About there many more social networks than just the ones mentioned: yes, and we'll support 'em all!
Bytekast (talk) 11:43, 15 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Bytekast the issue with trying to limit it by default is that the Fediverse is decentralised by its nature. how would you filter for unwanted uses without inadvertently forbidding most but the biggest instances? my thoughts are that we should leave the template as is and trust the end-editor to use it correctly; persistant misuse may then be controlled later on. unwanted sites may also be blacklisted (similarly to Wikipedia). Juwan (talk) 11:53, 15 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I don't like that blacklist idea because... well, all non-socialnetwork websites would be there! And that's trillions of domain names. They all are unwanted. Having an allowlist of social media domain names is more feasible. Another idea I had when I first read your former reply is for us to have both:

1. a list (or table/associate array) for the most popular decentralized socials, with the most common links to them (a common substring to match against would be good); and

2. a parameter (like decentralized=1 or fediverse=1) to indicate that a given uncovered (unlisted) link is to a decentralized social network, and then let the code handle it as it handles the known ones.

In that pretty specific case of user-given url, I'd trust the template user more than I would in the other (less reliable/much more general) case. Bytekast (talk) 12:53, 15 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Could the shortcuts WT:HOT and WT:HOTWORD be added to the Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion#Spanning at least a year?

(i.e. {{shortcut|WT:HOT|WT:HOTWORD}})? 208.114.63.4 15:24, 14 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

using the derivation templates, if you use an inline-modifiers w: (for linking to Wikipeia) and <alt:...> (for displaying alternative representation), the output does not display the alt title. see below from Questie:

{{af|en|w:Meta Quest<alt:Questie>|-ie<id:person associated>}}

Meta Quest +‎ -ie

Juwan (talk) 19:59, 14 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

MediaWiki message delivery 20:09, 14 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I request that two new templates be created for definiting minced oaths: {{minced oath}} and {{minced oath of}}. these may be categorised under Category:Minced oaths by language. Juwan (talk) 15:27, 16 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@JnpoJuwan Would {{minced oath}} be intended for etymologies, and {{minced oath of}} for definition lines? Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 22:24, 16 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Kiril kovachev yes, correct. Juwan (talk) 09:55, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Okay, well that sounds good to me. The current handling seems to be to use "minced oath" in the label, and write something about what it's meant to mean as the definition line; but, since the minced oath is really just an alteration of an existing term, it is probably better for the definition to just directly redirect to the actual word, rather than write about how the minced oath is exactly used or what it means (since the original word means the same thing most of the time). Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 10:46, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

pinging @Benwing2 to create this. Juwan (talk) 23:20, 18 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

(Notifying Benwing2, Fish bowl, Frigoris, Justinrleung, kc_kennylau, Mar vin kaiser, Michael Ly, ND381, RcAlex36, Saph, The dog2, Theknightwho, Tooironic, Wpi, 沈澄心, 恨国党非蠢即坏, LittleWhole): Hi.

1. Wu: 報紙 / 报纸 (automated), 報紙 / 报纸 (5pau-tsy5) (manual)
2. Cantonese: 報紙 / 报纸 (bou³ zi²) (automated), 報紙 / 报纸 (bou3 zi2) (manual)

In the above case, Wu is not automatically transliterated, unlike 雜誌 / 杂志 (⁸zeq-tsy) or 中國 / 中国 (¹tson-koq₇), since there are multiple regional transliterations.

My request:

1. Can we display the default first transliteration, rather than nothing?
2. For specific lects, pick a prestige or default dialect, e.g. Shanghainese for Wu, again rather displaying nothing?
3. Can superscripts and subscripts apply, regardless whether the transliteration is automated or manually provided? Visually, it's easier to read and is more appealing to have superscripts and subscripts.

I wasn't sure where to place this request. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:26, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

1. I don't think displaying the first transliteration is always a good idea, especially for single char entries and entries with multiple etymologies.
2. My suggestion would be to add etym-only codes for all dialects so that Module:zh-translit can pick the correct transliteration when the etym-only code is used in {{l}} etc.
3. I think that is a good idea and have asked for it before, but apparently the technical side of things is less trivial than it seems.

– wpi (talk) 04:10, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Wpi. Thanks, I would also oppose and, if possible, prevent displaying the 1st on multiple etymologies.

Perhaps, another way is to display ALL transliterations automatically, if they are included in the entry's {{zh-pron|w=sh:5pau tsy5;jx:5pau tsy3;sz:1pau5 tsy3}}. For Wu 報紙 / 报纸, it would be "5pau-tsy5 / 5pau-tsy3 / 1pau5-tsy3" with proper and matching superscripts and subscripts. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:12, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I would oppose that, since not all transliterations may be correct in the context, even when there is only one etymology section. Plus it becomes extremely clutterly. – wpi (talk) 06:16, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

most other top-level sinitic groups represented on wiktionary have obvious prestige varieties, but there isn't really one for wu. there's also decent regional variation and internal differences within wu is also way higher than most other wiktionary sinolangs. if anything i'd want there to not be any transliteration in general for wu or some sort of dissolution of wu but that's not what's being asked here so i'll just oppose your suggestion for now — nd381 (talk) 14:49, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

also slashes would just be clunky on entries with lots of readings like 五 — nd381 (talk) 14:50, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hey, there is a mistake where "alternative spelling of" is not capitalized, see for instance bi1. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:49, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Geographyinitiative If I understand what you mean, then you can just pass |cap=1 to get the capital letter. I think it only defaults to capitalizing for English. Kiril kovachev (talk・contribs) 10:43, 17 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Geographyinitiative I intentionally changed things so that form-of templates in non-English languages don't have an initial capital or final period, per this prior BP discussion: Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2024/June#Full stops after templates like {{synonym of}}. Formerly, it was total chaos, with some form-of templates adding an initial capital letter and period, some adding only an initial capital letter, and some doing neither. So it's best not to use |cap=1 and leave it without the final period or initial caps. I gather some may prefer things differently, but it's best for consistency's sake to go with the consensus of that discussion, otherwise we'll once again have total chaos. Benwing2 (talk) 03:36, 18 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I found a module error at אתרוג caused by {{tcl}} being unable to find a senseid in the citron entry. The only thing that had changed recently was this edit moving a reference in the pronunciation section into the preceding {{IPA}} template as an inline modifier tacked on to the end of the first parameter. I undid the edit, and, voilà! the error disappeared.

This is very odd because the edit in question was separated from the line with the {{senseid}} template by another line in the pronunciation section, the POS header and headword line, and two definition lines. I notice that the new inline modifier started with <ref:, so the page-scanning code must have assumed it was a <ref> tag and started skipping everything while it looked for a closing </ref> tag.

If so, the code will have to be taught the difference between the inline modifier and the ref tag. @Benwing2, JeffDoozan Chuck Entz (talk) 02:59, 18 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Your supposition was spot-on. In fact the Lua pattern was more broken because it would have gotten confused by something like <reference> or any other HTML tag or inline modifier beginning with <ref. Benwing2 (talk) 03:24, 18 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

could Module:Unicode data/names/000 and the other 'names' pages listed at Module:Unicode data be unprotected? the data has been moved to commons for all wk's to share, and these pages should be replaced with a call command. kwami (talk) 11:27, 18 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

The Albanian adjective sëmurë uses {{sq-adj}} with a parameter of f=sëmure. Albanian feminines and plurals are notoriously unpredictable and I only have a vague idea about them, but the change from final ë to e looks reasonable. However, what the template actually displays is sëmurëe, where -ëe is certainly impossible. I've tried changing the parameter to anything else, and this still comes up, so (1) it's ignoring the parameter, (2) what it's creating is wrong, and (3) there's no Lua error to show this.

There are also templates {{sq-adj-2}} and {{sq-adj-3}} (which I found on other common adjectives), but I don't know enough about Albanian to understand the difference. Hiztegilari (talk) 13:43, 19 July 2025 (UTC)Reply