Wiktionary:Information desk

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Case for diacrticless and mispelt words (Acehnese)

Hi! I'm adding Acehnese entries and I've stumbled on a rather weird problem

Acehnese is written with diacritics in theory, in dictionaries they're written with the proper diacritics but almost everywhere else, they're not, even including governmental documents. Now this is nothing new like English's cafe, but Acehnese is full of these diacritics, they're rather essential for the language to differentiate vowel sounds, but most speakers doesn't really bother with them, even inventing new spelling of how they think it should be, like how lôn is often spelt as "loen". Returning back, not even all dictionaries use the diacritics, and some even conflicts on which diacritic is used in a word, or even the spelling of a word at that (take for example "drob" in the Acehnese Dictionary A-L but "drop" in the Acehnese Thesaurus).

These wouldn't really be a problem and you can simply add the correct spelling and ignore the "respellings", even if its widespread, but then there's expresso and embarrasing, both of which has its own page. Acehnese has a rather similar case with expresso, with meunyö and meunyoë, meunyö (if, supposing that) is the correct form while meunyoë (meu- (if) + nyoë (this)) is the eggcorn variation of it due to the o-merger where all o variants (o, oë, ô, ö) are pronounced the same or that they're differentiated but words are pronounced with the wrong variant (e.g. ngön being pronounced as ngon).

Which now lands me with a couple questions:

  • Would it be necessary or allowed to add the diacriticless forms of Acehnese words (e.g. adee and dudok for adèë and dudôk) that links to the correct spelling? If no:
    • Is there a way to suggest merging/deletion of pages? There are a lot of incorrectly spelt Acehnese entries
  • Should conflicting forms of a word have their own entries? (e.g. drob and drop), if no:
    • If unsure of which is the more correct spelling, what's the correct thing to do?
  • What's the case for meunyö and meunyoë and similar cases to it?

Thank you and cheers! Zayn Kauthar (talk) 19:24, 1 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Zayn Kauthar: there are quite a few older languages like this- Middle English is probably the most notable of them here at English Wiktionary. The basic idea is very simple: you have one main entry with most of the information and lists of alternative forms, and you have multiple alternative form entries that are there mostly to link to the main form.
Like I said, the basic idea is simple- but the implementation is likely to be tricky. If there are diacritics that only appear in reference works, like the macrons in Latin, it may make sense to have the entries at the spellings without them, but show them in the displayed headword. Deciding whether to go with the standard form that has the most information to distinguish the words from lookalikes but no one uses, or with the defective forms that everyone uses can be a difficult decision. I haven't been involved in any such discussions, so I'll leave it up to others to elaborate. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:09, 1 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Suffixes

Two questions:

1. Should -coin be created as an English suffix entry? For all the cryptocurrency names? (eg: altcoin, bitcoin, decicoin, dogecoin, cryptocoin, memecoin, scamcoin). Currently it is not; all the crypto etymologies say "From thing +‎ coin". Would it be better if instead they said "From thing + -coin"?

2. Category:English suffixes includes these entries as suffixes: -maxx, -maxxed, -maxxes, -maxxing. Is this correct, or should the last 3 be deleted? Because I don't see other suffixes in that category with seperate entries for each of their verb forms. Instead, you'd expect the etymology to look like: "From looks + -maxx + -ing."

-Vuccala (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Just answering the first one: it's tricky. You have to decide whether you're adding a suffix to the end of a main word, or doing somthing else. I think bitcoin was originally conceived as a type of "coin" that was digitally based/existing only as bits- so coin was the main part. I think that the earlier cryptocurrency names were blends formed by swapping some other word for "bit". The hard part is deciding whether it has now evolved to the point that you can take any term and add "-coin" to make it a cryptocurrency name, like *hairy-eared dwarf lemur-coin... Chuck Entz (talk) 23:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Accessing Wiktionary from the Taskbar

Is it possible to create an icon on my Taskbar that I can click on to open Wiktionary? Wiktionary used to be included as part of the WordWeb app. Stanleykorn (talk) 18:50, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Which operating system do you use? —Justin (koavf)TCM 18:52, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am using Windows 11. Stanleykorn (talk) 19:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I haven't used Windows in several years, but it seems like there are methods to pin a link to a website to the taskbar. This site's URI is "https://en.wiktionary.org/". —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:29, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
The Win11 taskbar has very poor drag-and-drop support. For example the Chrome browser allows you to drag the current site's address (URL) onto the desktop (by dragging the little icon to the left of the address bar), but it doesn't work with the taskbar. In my work life I have discovered that you can't even pin certain types of program, and sometimes you have to create a shortcut to something else random (say, Notepad), and then edit the shortcut properties to point to what you really want. Go figure. Microsoft have no clue what they are doing these days. 2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:B12F:16A5:D12A:7094 22:48, 14 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can anyone check User:Wise Bridges Fool Walls' contributions? They seem to be adding many entries verbatim from the Dictionary of Japanese grammar book series to several words' talk pages. Masatami (talk) 21:11, 15 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Quark: General American Pronunciation Error

I think the General American pronunciation of "quark" is actually a pronunciation of "quack". I've never made a Wiktionary contribution before and the page is currently locked for edits, but I think it would make sense to upload a correct audio log.

I'm willing to do it, but would love any guidance that any experienced user would like to give! Vincent.Xavier.Zell (talk) 13:32, 16 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

It was NOT actually locked for editing, fwiw, I just wasn't logged in. The advice request still stands, though. Vincent.Xavier.Zell (talk) 13:34, 16 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
What do you mean? Are you saying that quark in the scientific meaning is a etymologically a phonological variant of quack, and that it wasn't coined? What proof do you have of that?
Are you saying that quark in GenAm is actually pronounced the same as quack? What proof do you have of that? Vininn126 (talk) 14:19, 16 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I think OP is saying the audio file in our entry, File:LL-Q1860_(eng)-Naomi_Persephone_Amethyst_(NaomiAmethyst)-quark.wav, is saying "quack" instead of "quark". It does seem to be rather poor audio for illustrating "quark"; I am inclined to remove it. - -sche (discuss) 06:59, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
If that is the case I agree. Should be rerecorded. Vininn126 (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
I've rerecorded it. Naomi Amethyst 04:00, 23 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Indeed, it quarks like a duck.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:43, 18 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
Yep! I was referring to the Audio File (sorry for the confusion) and I've uploaded a new file that should be more accurate (since I'm a general American);‑‑Vincent.Xavier.Zell (talk) 19:36, 21 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

tự chế / 自制

I have a question about what "tự chế" can mean. Unfortunately, there has been an edit war. @PhanAnh123 has indicated (here) that SEAlang is a "bad dictionary" and that "not a single actual attestation on Vietnamese Wikisource actually has the meaning 'self-control', and well, as a native speaker, I think when it's actually used the meaning of 'self-control' in real life, which is 'never'."

PhanAnh123 did not explain why SEAlang was a "bad dictionary." According to SEAlang, "the SEAlang Library Vietnamese Dictionary Resources...are primarily based on William Peter Hyde's A New Vietnamese-English Dictionary (2008, Dunwoody Press, 928 pages; ISBN 978-1-931546-43-0 ... A second major source is based on lexicographical material developed by Prof. Bui Phung, Hanoi University..." The entry for "tự chế" on SEAlang seems to be from the second source as it is marked "Bui1992."

I have also seen some Bible verses that use "tự chế" to mean "self-control" or something similar like "discipline": "Nó sẽ chết vì không biết tự chế, và sự ngu dại nó sẽ dẫn nó đi lầm lạc" (1, NIV: "for lack of discipline they will die, led astray by their own great folly"), "kẻ nào không biết tự chế chẳng khác nào thành không vách" (2, NIV: "like a city whose walls are broken through is a person who lacks self-control"), and a longer one here. I suppose one can argue that these are bad translations, but that still does not prove that "tự chế" has never been used to mean "self-control" (or something similar). A.S. (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2025 (UTC) (edited --A.S. (talk) 17:03, 16 June 2025 (UTC)).Reply

Why do you label verbs with that clause (whether omited or not) as transitive verbs?

Transitive verbs have direct objects i.e. a pronoun or noun. A that clause is not a pronoun or a noun, but, for example, suppose and suggest is labeled as transitive verbs 5.173.174.147 16:59, 17 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

One can “suppose something evil” (or, better, “something good”). Or one may "refuse to suppose something” (a disagreeable proposition). Some people are supposed to “suppose a soul”. One can “suggest a solution”, “another approach”, or “a way out”.  ​‑‑Lambiam 13:30, 18 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Unwritten help pages

I wanted to know how to link to senses, and found the help page was a stub. So I just edited a link to an old information desk question into the section, Wiktionary:Links#Links_within_the_project. Which is a lame way to do it. Would somebody care to write the section properly? It's been a stub for seventeen years, soon it will be old enough to vote. Card Zero (talk) 02:14, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

New words coined in 2020s

Are there any new words that are coined in 2020s? Where could we find this word entry? Should categories about neologisms in specific decade or year be created? Thank you for answering this. 2600:387:F:5719:0:0:0:3 01:29, 30 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Of course. Only via the search function, or AI-assisted search engines. If they should, we will aspire to this; the problem is though, we have not templatized specific years unless also attributing a word to particular individuals under Category:Coinages by language, cf. Signalgate, greenovator, and it is a slippery slope where editors would be nudged to research the coinage year of any word, if an introduced category is supposed to be comprehensive. Fay Freak (talk) 13:55, 30 June 2025 (UTC)Reply
What are words that are invented and created in 2020s, but not popularized? There are hot words and English neologisms. 2600:387:F:5719:0:0:0:3 10:53, 4 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

enPR ǔ

@Geographyinitiative, is ǔ (as added e.g. here or here) the vowel in words like run, up? If so, my impression is that that is meant to be notated in enPR as ŭ (with a subtly different diacritic). If it's another vowel, the symbol doesn't seem to be covered by Appendix:English pronunciation at the moment. - -sche (discuss) 05:51, 5 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Where could I find a list of English loan words borrowed from Navajo language? Search bar? 216.9.110.11 00:04, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Category:English terms derived from Navajo. 2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:5D6:19D8:A6C5:35CB 00:07, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply