This creative page needs to specify that all these entries need to start with "Appendix:Proto-Indo-European ". --Connel MacKenzie 20:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the sources being cited, perhaps we need a blanket prohibition against all this recent research. (Recent, meaning not before 1923.) Absolutely none of this can be free of copyright? --Connel MacKenzie 20:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
by your logic, all material is either copyvio or original research, there is no middle ground left. Dbachmann 16:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I've removed a suggestion to use Pokorny "as a main source". Most of it reconstructions are obsolete anyway. --Ivan Štambuk 16:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
To clarify, using knowledge contained in a copyrighted work, without copying part of the work, is never an infringement. 68.173.113.106 05:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Kept. See archived discussion. 09:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
As has been suggested here - This would leave only single-language descending families listed, and would miss the whole point of the ===Descendants==== section: to list all the ancient and modern descendants of a particular proto-word (or a root/word family), including borrowings. This would enable the creation of a giant, unparalleled semantic network that would ease the memorization of both etymologies and the meanings of words. If the descendants section grows too big (which I doubt, but which would be awesome if we get to that point!), collapsibility of the families at the first level of indentation could be implemented in javascript to ease the browsing. If the duplication by itself is the problem, it should be solved at the lower levels of inheritance, with entries of proto-languages using either labeled section transclusion to selectively map the content of the master descendant section to that of inheriting proto-language, or by plain periodic bot-synchronization. --Ivan Štambuk 13:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
I think redirects should be allowed for PIE, because there are common spellings of certain known PIE roots, such as *ekwos or *kmtom. This would also make it easier for people to find the actual PIE root, because not everyone knows how to spell h₁éḱwos or ḱm̥tóm on a keyboard. EliasAlucard / Discussion 04:54, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't agree with splitting of stems and derived terms on separate pages. For example on Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/dʰeh₁- we have four derivations, each of which is on a separate page. What is the point of ====Descendants==== section there anyway? To list unsorted terms that need to moved to the derived terms pages? It should also be noted that for most of the roots such derivations generally come with a big question mark because they are often postulated on the basis of very little evidence (e.g. reflexes in a single branch, usually Sanskrit or Greek which preserve PIE verbal system the best). This layout makes it very hard to navigate and observe the evidence in the daughter langauges.
My preferred layout would have the root listed under the ===Root=== section, and have all of the derivations listed either as as subsections. (e.g. for *dʰeh₁- we'd have ===Root=== and then ====*dʰédʰeh₁-==== or ====Present====), or just in a one big two-column table with derivations in the first column, and reflexes (which generally won't be many, a dozen tops) in another. Inflection would then come at the very end, after the evidence for particular stems has been presented. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 01:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Over the past year, I have encountered quite a few words that say they derive from PIE roots that contain either a turned e (ǝ) or a schwa (ə); for example, Special:WhatLinksHere/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/wenǝ-, Special:WhatLinksHere/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/wenə-. (I have AWB set to alert me to turned es because they are frequently misused in IPA transcriptions.) PIE mentions schwas, but this page's list of canonical symbols does not. Should it? If not, how should the pages that currently link to wenǝ-/wenə- be changed? - -sche (discuss) 02:53, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
In Wiktionary:About Latin and About Ancient Greek, I suggested creating categories for present tense forms created by nasal infix. Responses to my suggestion lead me to think that this suggestion should be handled here. Here's a proposal. How about there be a PIE root template that allows for showing the particular affixed, ablauted, or otherwise modified form of a PIE root that gives rise to a given Indo-European form? For instance, in the Etymology section of λαμβάνω (lambánō), this description could be added: the present stem λαμβάν- originates from *lh₂⟨n⟩gʷn̥-: zero-grade of *sleh₂gʷ- without s-mobile, with nasal infix *n, and with suffix *n̥. (I'm just guessing αν is n̥.)
In this case, the template would need to be able to remove the s-mobile, insert the nasal infix, remove the *e of ablaut, and add the suffix n̥. In other cases, it would need to replace the default *e of ablaut with *o or add a different suffix. Perhaps it could even include accent (although this might only be relevant in Ancient Greek, Germanic forms with Verner's Law operating, etc.). It would ideally also add categories based on the morphological and phonological changes (something like Latin forms with PIE nasal infix, Ancient Greek forms from PIE zero-grade, Latin forms with PIE s-mobile.).
Is this a crazy idea? Unfortunately I'm not that much of a PIE scholar or a template coder, so I cannot judge for sure whether this makes sense in either sphere, but I am interested in having words categorized by their origin from PIE forms with PIE morphological process x or y, and in having more detailed PIE etymologies, at least for a few words. — Eru·tuon 17:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Nobody has responded, so a simpler idea: a template with a bunch of morphological categories, like nasal infix, reduplicated present or perfect, and ablaut grade, that you could put before the root, and which would automatically categorize words as being derived from a particular category of PIE morphological form.
Let's say it was called {{ine-pro-morph}}. So, in δίδωμι (dídōmi):
From {{etyl|ine-pro|grc}} {{m|ine-pro||*de-deh₃-}}, {{ine-pro-morph|grc|redupl|pres}} of {{m|ine-pro|*deh₃-||to give}}.
resulting in
and categorizing the word in Category:Ancient Greek reduplicated presents or something like that.
Any thoughts? I didn't get a response last time, probably because my idea was too fantastical. — Eru·tuon 07:24, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
We currently have a lemma form for nouns and adjectives, but not for verbs. The reason is presumably that there is a wide variety of lemma forms in the PIE languages, so it's not possible to choose one that neatly reflects them all, except by using the basic stem. However, I am finding that omitting the verb ending leaves out important details that are not supplied by the stem alone, namely whether the verb took primary (present), secondary (default) or stative endings. PIE also had deponent verbs, and this would be shown with middle endings in the lemma. These details are often reconstructible, and I think they should be included. Note that this question applies primarily to derived terms listed under roots. We only have a few actual PIE verb entries anyway.
The choice of lemma form is a bit more difficult, so I'd like to ask others for their opinions here. We should choose something that is used by PIE and at least some of the IE languages, so non-finite forms like infinitives are automatically out. That leaves only two contenders: 1st and 3rd person singular.
For the 1st person singular:
For the 3rd person singular:
Which one do you think we should use?
—CodeCat 21:10, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
The ordering of the various formations in root entries is currently a bit haphazard, so I propose the following standard, based in part on what is already common practice:
What do you think? —CodeCat 20:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
The Origins of Proto-Indo-European: The Caucasian Substrate Hypothesis (revised October 2017)
I have saved this public list of PIE roots here: http://archive.is/WCZyL