Talk:Běijīng

Horsepuckey.

It's just some people using actual tonal pinyin with running English text. If we aren't as a matter of course adding "English" to every romanized tonal pinyin form, then no "English" doesn't belong here either. — LlywelynII 11:19, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@LlywelynII This is a really cool discussion. (@J3133 added these cites and I tweaked them a little.) I really don't know if this is part of English or not, but I tend to think that "some people using actual tonal pinyin with running English text" = English at some point, in a descriptivist worldview. Maybe proscribed. Maybe "wrong". Maybe needs to be classified in a special way. But I'm open-minded to the possibility that people are using the tonal spelling in English as English. But again, I see your point LlywelynII. But I can see J3133's point as well.
The word 'Běijīng' is not being put in parentheses in any of these cites. These cites (see Citations:Běijīng) for Běijīng are a difference in kind from a citation like the following, where the words in parentheses are not really meant as an English word:*

1994 July, Robert Storey, “South-West Taiwan”, in Taiwan - A Travel Survival Kit‎, 3rd edition, Lonely Planet, →ISBN, →OCLC, →OL, page 241:

In the suburb of Tsoying (zuǒyíng) are two magnificent temples within a 10-minute walk of each other. Both are on the shore of a lake. The Spring Autumn Temple (chūn qiū gé) has a unique design and includes two pagodas that extend into the lake.

--Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC) (Modified)

@Geographyinitiative, LlywelynII: Since this is controversial, it cannot be removed without a RfD as LlywelynII did. J3133 (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

But it isn't controversial.

It's just ridiculous. Geographyinitiative would be fine with including ”English" alongside every pinyin entry because s/he doesn't care and loves learning about China.

This is just gatekeeping/ownership, given that you took the time to get some cites. I can also get cites of random words being used with tones, but none of the admins actually wants to spam "English" repetitions of the tonal pinyin entries. There's absolutely no point. — LlywelynII 12:11, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@LlywelynII It's not gatekeeping to stop you edit warring over blanking the entry. I'm giving you a 24 hour ban, as your behaviour over this is outrageous. Theknightwho (talk) 16:41, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative They aren't using it as English. They're using it as Chinese in the running text. Those tones don't have any meaning in English. They only exist in pinyin, which Wiktionary chooses to consider part of Chinese. We aren't going to spam every language in the world that uses a Latin alphabet for pinyin. We just need the one entry, which we already have. — LlywelynII 12:15, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree here tbh, there doesn't seem to be any real reason to have an English section in this entry. Acolyte of Ice (talk) 12:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Acolyte of Ice, J3133, LlywelynII Hey, I am 100% ambivalent about this entry. I didn't make this sense, and didnt get the cites. (But I did check them.) lol! But let me ask you all: do you think these three cites (at Citations:Běijīng) prove a translingual sense for Běijīng? Or maybe do they prove the Mandarin sense already on this page? Or are they unable to prove a sense for anything? I think there is some kind of linguistic phenomena. So where do these cites go? I really don't know, I'm seriously open minded on this. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)