User:Sarri.greek/notes

Problems at editions of Liddell-Scott.

λέγω (légō), which λέγω? & the ety of λέσχη (léskhē) at older versions of Liddell-Scott. Some older Greek dictionaries copy a mistake of pre-1940 editions with an incorrect sense "I put someone to sleep" for λέγω.

Was λέγω1 a typographic error of λέχω(cfLOGEION) (similar content)? Or was it a wrong etymology? It was a wrong etymology. .Compare:

I little different in {{R:LSJ}} of 1940, but still with λέγω.a.

Wwe see the mistake λέγω="I put someone to sleep" at

• Dictionary Λίντελ-Σκοτ, Greek translation of {{R:Middle Liddell}}, online @greek-language.gr
  Mistakes are copied from the printed#LSK based on {{R:Middle Liddell}} of 1889
  • lemma λέγω has A, B, C senses, but λέγω.Α like λέχω (see identical content at Bailly2020 as in λέχω@LOGEION)
  • lemma λέσχη connects to λέγω.C. (Ι talk), which is wrong , when probably they meant λέγω.Α. = the correct is λέχω. (or it is just a mistaken ety)

    correct ety here

• Dictionary LSK Λίντελ-Σκοτ-Κωνσταντινίδης printed Greek translation + suppl. / Online = the above #Λίντελ
  • lemma λέγω, with mistake λέγω.Α. pdf.0021, volC should be λέχω cf #Λίντελ
  • lemma λέσχη, with mistake at ety pdf.0031, volC cf #Λίντελ

    correct ety here

• Stamatakos 1972 ανατύπωση 1999 notes, page 574, that the etymology of λέσχη from λέγω (a place for talking) is not accepted unanimously

Plan Sarri concerning the implementation of the plan for MedGr (2025, Beer)
A. Phase renaming.

• 1. Administrator changes the wording Byzantine Greek alias=Medieval Greek TO Medieval Greek alias=Byzantine Greek in Modules and Templates that are locked to non administrators.
  • Module:etymology_languages/data Changes:

    gkm "Medieval Greek" aliases = {"Byzantine Greek"},

    el-kth ancestors = "grc-koi" (notorisouly ignored middle times, reviving grc and grc-koi)

• 2. Sarri.greek checks all insource:/Byza/ byz, gkm and corrects what is neccessary. Also, all occurances of the alias, so that the new name is consolidated as a practice. I also check all /Medi/ med occurances and all /Greek/
• 3. Sarri moves all existing Categories to the correct title, leaving some redirects to central Cats, like Byzantine Greek will get a redirect. Recheck the 2. insource
• 4. Wait for Categories to be filled for a few days. Sarri notifies the admin that this is done; we proceed to next phase.

Note: The above 1-4 do not interfere with the tlb of Ancient Gr pages with {tlb|Byzantine}. It produces correct Categories.
B. Phase splitting MedGr

• a. Administrator add to protected modules:
  • Module:languages/canonical_names

    = "gkm",

  • Module:languages/code_to_canonical_name

    = "Medieval Greek"

    (note: = "Banaro",)

• b. Sarri creates L2 Medieval Greek detaching the AncGr tlb|Medieval to its separate sector. Adds their own Sources (Further reading) and possibly their Etymology.
• c. Sarri reviews all ModGr, KoineGr, AncGr which implicate MedGr.

C. Future enhancement

_ Module:grc-pronunciation 10th century and 15th century need corrections. They should be completely avoided for the time being.

_ wikt:en:User:Sarri.greek/Medieval_Greek_entry_guidelines - wikt:el:Βικιλεξικό:Μεσαιωνικά ελληνικά

_ trials for empty tables to be filled with attested forms: coder needed.

Sarri asks for collaboration with an interface admin, familiar with Greek, to create properly:

• simple labels needed e.g. of Early Modern Greek / Late Medieval Greek phase (polytonic), lb Terms of 17th century, lb Terms of 18th century.
• few declension tables (empty). To create an Appendix with clitic paradigmata. Distignuish 'expected' from 'attested' at titles of inflections. I have prepared some examples. Verbs are too complicated at the moment.
• Tranlisteration is ok with grc and pronunciation also; I would need help from my mentor, admin Erutuon (sorry Eru, I know you have very little time, but you are the only hellenist around who understands Gr modules, created by you, or enhanced since M ObsequiousNewt has withdrawn as well. Eru, Koine needs handling too.

Please, allow some time for changes and reviews. Thank you. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 02:51, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Lexicographical terms from Greek to English, difficult to translate, or Greek-specific (not found at English dictionaries).

• αρχ. αρχαίος αρχαϊκός αρχαιότροπος English - Greek differences

  archaic αρχαϊκός - archaistic αρχαιότροπος.

  • archaic = a phase before classic or main phase of an ancient period
  • archaic label for a modern language =
  • archaic lable for e.g. Ancient Greek =
  • archaistic = in the fashion of ancient, imitating an ancient (not an archaic) word
• διαχρονικό δάνειο diachronic borrowing: From an older period of the same language. The term used at {{R:DSMG}} (expalained at the Greek Intro). Revived or reactivated ^{term use at Intro of {{R:Babiniotis 2002}}} words Examples: el δημοκρατία (dimokratía), en sibling
• εσωτερικό δάνειο internal borrowing: Borrowing from the same language, cf διαχρονικό & cf συγχρονικό
• μεταγενέστερη = cf Κοινή
• Κοινή Koine Greek marked as 'Later (language)' at dictionaries:
  • μτγν. = el μεταγενέστρη (metagenéstri) = el-kth μεταγενεστέρα f (metagenestéra, adjective, literally “later, subsequent”)
  • sp. = German spätere > spät (“late”) at {{R:grc:Pape}} - Pape abbreviations

    Sp Spätere, Die Zeitbestimmung ergibt entweder der Zusammenhang, oder es sind die Alexandriner und die folgenden Schriftsteller gemeint.

    sp Spätere, Die Zeitbestimmung ergibt entweder der Zusammenhang, oder es sind die Alexandriner und die folgenden Schriftsteller gemeint.

    sp.D = Spätere Dichter. Die Zeitbestimmung ergibt entweder der Zusammenhang, oder es sind die Alexandriner und die folgenden Schriftsteller gemeint.

• λαϊκότροπο (laïkótropo) < λαϊκότροπος (laïkótropos) = in the style of λαϊκός (laïkós). The difference: λαϊκότροπο is used in Standard, also by learned speakers. But λαϊκό is not. Example:
• λαϊκό (laïkó) < λαϊκός (laïkós) = literally: of the people. Of the masses. Of the lower classes. Non-learned. See λαϊκότροπο (for difference)
• συγχρονικό δάνειο synchronic borrowing From a dialect or idiom οφ the same period of the language, it enter Standard. Examples: κοπελιά f (kopeliá) but for males κοπέλι n (kopéli) has remained dialectal, and did not enter koine (Standard).

fully numbered.

• how? force _ _ T O C _ _
• how? line-heights for DT DD DL LI etc 1,5em as everywhere? Especially at mobile view

toc2-hor

is now Template:minitoc

• Or the horizontal L2 with vertical L3 especially nice for juxtaposed phases of same lang. Test at test1#ex
• (example as in lemma σκληρός) - el.wikt.test Module:toc-test, Temp:toc-test, examples of how it looks at Temp:test-ol