User talk:Bequw/archive2008

You’ve been around for about six months and have done a lot of excellent work. If you are interested, I would like to nominate you as a Wiktionary Administrator. Just let me know. —Stephen 16:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

I'd be thrilled! and would enjoy helping out in that capacity. Let me know if there's anything I should do. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 20:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hi. Please go to Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2008-1/User:Bequw to accept the nomination. Thanks. —Stephen 19:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

So, will you be accepting the nomination? FYI, I won't vote for someone who doesn't accept. :) --EncycloPetey 19:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Also, why is there only one word in Category:Haitian Creole language?

Geez, not even and hour's gone by and harrasment! How do I get a ping upgrade? And yeah, about the Creole, there's one guy that imported an index of Creole words and made that one definition here. It's one of my side projects to add words, but I'll probably put them into Wikcionario first as that's the language Haiti's neighbor (the Dominican Republic) speaks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 20:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Your suggestions for Project Multilingual Translations are correct. Once the project takes shape and sets out, it would be first of all made sure that translations are complete for the most common English words. That is a valuable suggestion. Thanks.

Kindly give any more suggestions if you have.

By the way, would you be able contribute regularly and join as a PMT Group Member for some language other than English? We would be happy to welcome you.

Shreehari 03:11, 3 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hi, that's great !! i've a database of 4500 words translated from english into haitian creole. I'll put it on my user page soon. thank you for your help.

i'm developping an haitian creole wiktionary there : http://incubator.wikimedia.orghttps://dictious.com/en/wt/ht and i'll put also there terms in english translated into haitian creole (a English-Kreyòl Ayisyen section).

Thank you in advance for your help !

What i'm doing now : -translating WMF messages (1600 left) -creation of the haitian creole wiktionary -creation of the haitian creoel wikiquote -admin haitian creoel wikipedia and wikisource -new section in wikia for haitian creole and haiti

lot of work :-( --Masterches 14:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Welcome to sysophood. SemperBlotto 12:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

p.s. Please add an entry to Wiktionary:Administrators

FYI: this will take lang=code. E.g. at novus, lang=la will do the derivations cat correctly. Robert Ullmann 23:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I just figured that out while translating {{PIE.|fr}}. Will go back and fix. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'm confused by this edit . Why do you say the closing div tag is "spurious"? Following that edit, the template now has an open-ended div tag with no close. --EncycloPetey 23:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

sorry, that edit summary probably wasn't helpful. I was fixing lots of "unbalanced" div tags at the time. I just counted right now, and they seem to be even. I've gotta run now, but will be on in the morning. If I missed something, rollback. Thanks --Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

Honestly, I do not remember anything about that edit. I'm completely stumped (at first I though it was an edit conflict because there was no way I'd have done that), so feel free to just revert it. Circeus 19:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

Done. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 19:11, 25 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hi, yes it is possible and it is a part of Lupin's popups (the same version as in the WT:PREF). Look under mw:Extension:Autoedit for more information of how to use it, and it should work if the WT:PREF is enabled. Conrad.Irwin

Thanks for fixing fiar and piar. There are still some forms that are incorrect: "fiéis", "fiáis", "piéis", and "piáis" should not have the accent. Besides fiar and piar, there is also reír to be done, which needs the accents removed from "rió" and "riáis". —Stephen 04:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

Fixed (for 2nd time) template for fiar and piar. Fixed the template for reír and freír. Thanks for being on top of written accent marks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

I just added a column for the use of {{etyl}} to the table of etymology templates. I was wondered if you'd check to see if things look right. If there's a language with a code that's not listed, please fill it in. I wasn't sure whether or not to use the collective/macro- language codes, so I left them red-linked. Also I put a dagger next to two I wasn't sure about (language of table is a bit more specific than the available language code). Thanks for any help. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 21:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

This will take me some time to go through, but it looks good overall. A couple things noted right off the bat: First, this really shows a confusion on Wiktionary between 693-1 codes and 693-3 codes. This is something we really need to figure out at some point. I reverted your edits on {{ell}}, as el is the 693-1 equivalent of ell, both mean modern Greek, just as en means the same as eng. Also, we simply don't use the term Modern Greek on Wiktionary. When something says "Greek" it means modern Greek. We really ought to go through the old-style templates and get rid of redundancies like {{Gk.}}/{{Gr.}} and {{S.}}/{{Sp.}}. Personally I think the old templates should be deprecated altogether, but not everyone shares my opinion on that. Besides that, we still have some work to do about dividing languages and stuff (e.g. the Latins), so we're not really at the point where such a deprecation is feasible, even if everyone supported it. Hopefully my Language CFI proposal can help to start sorting these things out. But, thanks for doing that, it's an excellent addition. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

I know you've done some work on Spanish templates before, and you're much better at templates than me. I also saw you merging some conjugation templates recently, which makes me wonder about others. In particular, could the {{es-noun-f-unc}} and {{es-noun-m-unc}} be merged into their respective {{es-noun-f}} and {{es-noun-m}}, as English is? I also just noticed that the -unc templates don't currently have the parameter that allows you to change the headword (for adding links to multiword entries, for example) as the main ones do, which will have to be fixed if they don't get merged. What do you think? Dmcdevit·t 08:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

It would be much cleaner that way. We could allow inflection lines to note that a noun has both uncountable and count meanings. In both baser templates the positional {{{1}}} is free so we could do {{es-noun-m|-}} (like {{en-noun}}) to show an uncountable noun and {{es-noun-m|-|pl=XXXs}} for nouns with both types of sense. I'll try and get the change in. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 17:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

Finally done. The -unc templates can now be deprecated. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 07:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hi Bequw, just to let you know there is a Javascript library created by Ruakh for translating languagenames/codes between each other. I don't know whether you are interested in updating sidebartranslate to use this or not. See MediaWiki:langcode2name.js and User:Conrad.Irwin/iwiki.js for the library and an example usage. Conrad.Irwin 22:37, 13 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hey nice. I'll put that on the todo list. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 14:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Done. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 05:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hello, there regards you creation of {{lang:odt}} I think that the list that RobertUllman has automated to list the language templates won't pick them up unless we categorise them. I've changed this one.--Williamsayers79 20:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Very true, I went back and categorized all the ones I made. Thanks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 21:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

My code is pretty good at finding them even when not in the category, but yes of course they should be categorized. Robert Ullmann 13:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

I’ve just noticed that this template is incorrect, but I don’t understand the complex coding. With reflexives (such as callarse and levantarse) there should be an accent on some forms: cállate, levántate. Currently it does not place an accent on those forms. —Stephen 17:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

It looks like Ian Burnet inadvertently messed it up while putting in the negative command section (see accumulated diff). I'll fix that template up and check the other ones that use that complex coding (that what I get from trying to do clever template programming). Thanks for spotting the error. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 21:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Just to be sure, these are the three imperative forms of callarse that need to have the accent added: callate = cállate, callese = cállese, callense = cállense. —Stephen 13:51, 23 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for fixing that one Stephen. I fixed the other conjugation templates that take reflexive verbs. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 22:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to invite you to participate in a community effort to improve the quality of common verbs in Romance languages. I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. The plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new "verbs" each week for cleanup. By "verb", I mean the corresponding entry across several Latin-descended languages, and not simply a single entry. Your help with Spanish entries would be much appreciated. See the project page for more details and the current selection (listed near the top of the page, as well as highlighted in the tables). --EncycloPetey 06:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hi ... for various reasons we don't want to have parentheses in language names. Usually the term in parens is a qualifier or an alternate name, and the name should be handled differently. For example we use "Template:grc", not "Greek (Ancient)" and so on.

Are you creating a whole bunch of missing ones? From what source? (;-) Robert Ullmann 10:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hey Robert. I'm fleshing out the ISO 639-2 codes (excluding the "collective" languages and those that already have a 639-1 code). I agree that parentheses aren't too aesthetic but but w:List_of_ISO_639-2_codes and SIL use them here. I didn't use it on "Template:gba" where SIL tacks on "(Central African Republic)" because I thought it was already clear enough (it's a macrolangauge). If you have ideas to change this one please let me know. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 10:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

We do not in general want templates for macrolanguages. The set of templates is effectively the set of languages that we want to use for L2 headers!

It would be much better to completely ignore -2, using only -1 and -3 where there are languages that we consider individual. -2 has endless problems; which is why it was completely replaced in -3. Robert Ullmann 10:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

The language is Slavey, it is an Athabaskan language, divided into North Slavey and South Slavey. At some point we will decide whether to use den with North and South context tags or scs and xsl. The problem with creating templates from the code list is that this issue doesn't get addressed by someone working on the language(s). This is one reason why we have so far been creating templates only when needed. Robert Ullmann 11:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

See

Ethnologue entry for North Slavey, scs ⁠ Ethnologue entry for South Slavey, xsl ⁠

noting that there is no entry for den. We probably want to use these two, as they are distinct, and each has several dialects. Every time we add code templates we have to do research like this. Robert Ullmann 11:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

(double edit Conflict) Macrolanguages are useful in certain areas, though we should of course be aware when we're dealing with them versus an individual language code. They are code points in 639-3 (though not in the ethnologue) and pervasive here in en.wikt (we're not breaking Arabic up into it's 30 different languages yet). My concern is about completeness, at least it's a base to work off of, and a reference to start from. Field experts are welcome to improve. Just because it's a macrocode doesn't mean it automatically shouldn't be used. The "research" required to make that call is much more than just looking it up in ISO 639-3 and the ethnolgoue (which I have been doing). --Bequw → ¢ • τ 11:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thought you might be interested. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 05:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

As you commented on the recent Proto etymon templates deletion request I thought you might wish to comment on this. Thryduulf 18:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Just happened to catch these: note that they were set up to automagically cause AF to convert them (e.g. to {{m|f|n}}), the rules have to be taken out of AF (done for these). If you change any others like that, note it on AF's talk please? Thanks, Robert Ullmann 17:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hello Bequw -- That was very nice work which you did on this entry. And by far the must effective and intelligent use I've yet seen of a citations page. My hat is off to you. -- WikiPedant 06:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

The Wikipedia page had most of it. I do study Economics, though, so I thought that term would be a good one to make extensive (especially since it's use has been critized by people like Chomsky). --Bequw → ¢ • τ 09:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Replied on my talk page. --EncycloPetey 15:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

We have a new user (User:Esteban.barahona) fluent in Spanish who is eager to help out but is still learning about Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey 04:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Great <licking lips>. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 05:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'm getting used to wiktionary... most of my wiki-contributions are from {es&en}.wikipedia--Esteban.barahona 06:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

We've been converting special purpose etymology templates (like {{Af.}}) to use the general purpose {{etyl}} with the appropriate ISO language code (in this case af). This one you used was just up for deletion, so thought I'd let you know. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 05:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

When you saud "the one you used was up for deletion", which etymology template are you referring to, and which entry is it one? I've used a few recently, you see. Thank you --Jackofclubs 07:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, {{Af.}} → {{etyl|af}} (Afrikaans). --Bequw → ¢ • τ 07:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

The new Ethnologue template you’ve been adding does not work correctly. Instead of link to the proper Ethnologue page, it takes you to http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code={{{3code}}}. —Stephen 03:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks EP for fixing that. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 08:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

While it's fine to choose one language name as standard for language categories, we cannot and do not do this with entries. Each valid spelling gets its own entry. Consider that the pronunciation may not be the same; the quotes will not be the same; and there may be regional differences in preference of spelling. --EncycloPetey 04:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

replied on his talk. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 04:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

You're right, I missed the difference in the pronunciations (I never do much with them and my eyes just glossed over it all). The Etymologies are the same, and I can't find any regional difference in usage. What about leaving each POS header with just a {{alternative spelling of}}? --Bequw → ¢ • τ 04:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

That would be a good way to handle it. --EncycloPetey 04:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure there is no shade of difference in meaning? I've always had the sense that the spelling Panjabi, although it can be used either for the culture/language/people or for the geogrphy, was more likely to be used when refering geographically to the Panjab region, while Punjabi is seldom used this way. --EncycloPetey 04:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Pardon me, but this is horrible. You've taken a couple of perfectly simple templates that can each be used as needed or desired, and turned it into a confusing mess.

It make it look like the ethnologue uses the 2-letter codes, which it doesn't. Link can't be both Linguist list and Ethnologue, and it can't display the SIL link if the link is Ethnologue. A mess.

Well, from the user's perspective I'd ranked the usefulness of the pages as Ethnologue > Linguist List > SIL (as this page really has no info). So if an Ethnologue entry exists, it's link is, shown. If there isn't one, but there is an LL entry (like for some conlangs/ancient languages), it is preferred. As a backup there's the SIL page. Someone might get confused thinking you could use the 2-letter codes in LL or Ethno, though there is the link. I'm fine with rewording. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

And you are leaving out the * wikisyntax before it, which needs to be in the page text.

I'm not sure what you mean here, the template does include the bullet (it was nested in the #if's). --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Please can we just use {ethnologue}, {linguist list} separately, and have this perhaps show the -2 code and perhaps link a -3 code to SIL? As it is it is just a confusing layer. Please? Robert Ullmann 13:43, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry, you did leave a note on my talk page, and I didn't point all this problem sooner. Can we please just define {ISO 639} as {{ISO 639|(2-code)|(3-code)}} and nothing else, linking to SIL, and leave the links to ethnologue and linguist list separate, and clear?

At Arabic is good to add all those, but it starts out confusing: we use ar = arb = (standard) Arabic, and don't use ara because it is a -3 that is not an individual language. (Note that no application using 2-letter codes ever "redefines" them as "macrolanguages": they remain the specific individual language in actual use.) This entry should start with {{ISO 639|ar|arb}}, {{ethnologue|code=arb}}, and then the list of dialects.

I was not aware of that. Why then does SIL equate ar to ara instead of to arb? And why is our {{ar}}={{ara}} not {{arb}}? Should Arabic be changed? --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

As I said, I'm sorry I didn't say anything sooner, but can we please fix this? Robert Ullmann 14:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

I'll try and have the format show the separation between SIL/Ethnologue/LL. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 18:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

How's that change? Is the seperation more clear? I did all the format changing inside of {{ISO 639}} because I didn't want to convert all occurences of {ISO 639}→ {ISO 639}{ethnologue}. I think it's cleaner this way, but feel free the change the formatting or provide more suggestions. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 19:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Can you cite your source for the etymology of Canuck? I'd like to add two more: from etymonline, and the CanOD which just says “apparently from Canada.” —Michael Z. 2008-09-10 14:49 z

Just napped them from the wiki page. Probably want to update both if you could. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 23:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I'll do so. Cheers. —Michael Z. 2008-09-10 23:43 z

I did some research and even visited the local University library, and updated the entry. The etymology of Canuck remains unclear, yet rather interesting. Regards. —Michael Z. 2008-09-15 06:34 z

This should not have been deleted; it leads to people who are used to it re-creating it. AF will automatically fix these. (Note that without it, several entries have been created that AF did not find.) Robert Ullmann 14:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

OK. There were related ones at Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Others#Deprecated_gender.2Fnumber_templates. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 02:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Would it be proper to add ∪ to U, at the top, under the See Also heading? sewnmouthsecret 20:51, 15 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Done, and done. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 03:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! I wasn't sure. sewnmouthsecret 03:38, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

http://en.wiktionary.orghttps://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Appendix:Unsupported_titles&diff=5356299&oldid=5263311

—Ruakh_TALK 12:28, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Yes I am. Specifically when using Google's Chrome browser. It improperly renders pages, putting those snippets throughout. It's usually when previewing page edits. I thought it was just in the view of the pages though, but the diff shows it affected the edit to. Do you have any ideas or workarounds? I can switch to firefox for my wiking if need be. Thanks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 01:01, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

No clue, sorry, but if you know where the source code is for Lupin's popups, I can try to figure it out. —Ruakh_TALK 22:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Lupin's enwiki page. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 02:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

You recently created ∋. That just so happened to be our millionth entry (barring bot contribs), check the WT:BP for details. Congratulations! Teh Rote 22:30, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Something with your name on it is inserting Etymology 1 headers in language sections that only have a single Etymology. That is not right AFAIK. DCDuring TALK 09:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

That's me. I was fixing the header links. Those entries had at least the following headers: =Etymology 1=, =Etymology 2=, and two (bare) =Etymology= headers. The Wikimedia software, upon seeing two identical headers, tries to make them unique by adding a space and a number after each identical one. In renames (for linking purposes) the two =Etymology= headers to be =Etymology 1= and =Etymology 2= which collide with the existing headers that have those names. That means links to those headers will not work (they'll link to the earlier English headers) including the TOC links. By renaming the bare =Etymology= to =Etymology 1= we solve that problem and allow linking. Do you think I should stop? Or do you know of a better way to fix this problem? --Bequw → ¢ • τ 09:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

And I see that AF was actually undoing my changes. I'll talk to Robert. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 09:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

I hope you've noticed since then that your edits were in error. The numbered and unnumbered Etymology section were under different language headers. So, your "fixes" were incorrect. --EncycloPetey 19:15, 25 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

That's the whole point. Maybe I'm explaining it improperly. Here's an example with just headers (and user-invisible, WikiMedia-generated anchor names/ids in parentheses).

Since the anchor names aren't unique in the left case, if someone tried to click on the Latin Etymology link in the TOC they'd be taken to the second English Etymology instead (the first anchor with that name). Whereas on the right, the navigation would work fine. I realize people don't deep link into Etymologies from other pages, but I *do* think the TOC should work for users. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 04:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

But that violates policy on the naming of Etymology headers, and is even counter to all proposals made at the last vote on the matter. you'd need to convince the community before implementing a basic header change. As you'll gather from my reaction and DCDuring's, we don't support non-duplicate sections being numbered. --EncycloPetey 04:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Well, the vote didn't really talk at all about what to call the sections so I don't know how adding the extra "1" could be "counter" to anything there. The "1" probably violates the ELE when read quite strictly. Seeing as how, though, it was fixing an existing bug, on a limited number of pages, I thought I was helping out. It's certainly a smaller deviation than what many people do all the time. BTW, I mentioned this linking problem before and no one seemed to care then (or maybe I didn't explain it clearly the first time either). Robert doesn't seem to care much so I'll let it lie (can't fight AF). --Bequw → ¢ • τ 05:11, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

It is unfortunate that our practice of adding _n to the headers when more than one is the same as the TOC generator's method. Note that the TOC, as with anything to do with headers and sections, is pretty much hacked when it comes to levels; the MW s/w doesn't "understand" nesting of sections. Create an entry in sandbox or whatever with an L5 header followed by L4 followed by L3, e.g. like this and look at the TOC. (It even generates "Three_2" having just done that for the preceding header. ;-) AF often fixes Pron or Ety L4->L3 at the top of a language section because people don't notice: the TOC looks right. The issue here is really bug(s), or complete mis-implementation of the TOC. (I've been noodling over the idea of creating a wikt-TOC MW extension, that would replace it with something designed for the wikts ... but haven't done anything serious with it.) Robert Ullmann 07:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

And for more fun, look at this version where the software generates id="7 at L3" for that header, which is illegal (must start with non-numeric). And then ==content== is even more fun, conflicting with the content div. (you should see part of a box appear from nowhere) All in all, headers and TOC are pretty broken. Robert Ullmann 07:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hi Bequw. I know you're trying to do the right thing but there are a couple of problems.

• Deleting information is almost never the right thing to do. If you've taken it upon yourself to enforce a "Wiktionary rule" I suggest two possibilities: a) find a new place to put the translations because they actually are valuable and hard to find elsewhere. b) maybe the people arguing that such a rule is needed are not aware of these examples and need to rethink the rule or come up with an alternative before it is enforced with the high price of information loss.

• With the articles you are separating into an English article and a foreign language article you are often not changing the level 2 heading to "English". When you do this, Autoformat is coming along behind you and merging the two articles back into one!

• Please make sure that two entries on the same page are separated by ----

I urge you to review all of your edits that fall into any of these categories. Otherwise keep up the good work - I can see you're eager to help improve Wiktionary. — hippietrail 12:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)Reply