Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2015-07/Normalization of entries 2

• Voting on:
  • Promoting the revision 33764378 of Wiktionary:Normalization of entries (WT:NORM) to a policy, the same as WT:CFI and WT:ELE. Its purpose is described as follows, quoted from the page:

    "This is a list of aspects that govern how the wiki code behind an entry should be formatted. They are invisible to the readers, e.g., following these rules makes no difference to how a user sees the page, but they do make the pages conform more to a standard format reflecting what we think of as best for the wiki code. Issues such as where to put blank lines and how many, whether to put spaces inside the == ==, or after asterisks in lists."

  • Adding to the page the same policy box from CFI and ELE, whose policy status reads specifically as follows.

    "This is a Wiktionary policy, guideline or common practices page.
    It should not be modified without discussion and consensus. Any substantial or contested changes require a VOTE."

• About the policy:
  • The list of items currently in the policy was developed from this extensive 2006 thread, which shaped the wiki code of our entries as we know to this date with the major role of User:AutoFormat (2007–2010) and I proposed to be officialized through this discussion from May 2015 with 13 polls. Controversial, outdated or undiscussed items were removed from the list and moved to here. This policy was voted before here but failed with 7 - 4 - 2 (63,6% support); the policy has since been revised based on the previous vote. The version of the policy being voted now is different from the version proposed then.

• Vote started: 00:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
• Vote ends: 23:59, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• Vote created: --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:03, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
• Discussion:

  User talk:Connel MacKenzie/Normalization of articles (2006 thread)

  Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2015/May#Voting on normalization of entries (2015 revival+polls)

  Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2015/July#Normalization of entries 2

  Wiktionary talk:Normalization of entries

  Wiktionary talk:Votes/pl-2015-05/Normalization of entries

1. Support --Daniel Carrero (talk) 04:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
2. Support, with the understanding that this restriction on bots' edits applies only to the part of a page that a bot edits and not to the entire page.​—msh210℠ (talk) 14:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

   OK, I was thinking about that too, when I edited the page. Sorry if this is not too clear in the policy yet, the text can be amended later with this point. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:18, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

   If all (or sufficiently many people) supporters specify such a qualifier on their respective votes, as you and I just did, and the vote passes, then the vote should be said to pass (and policy be effected) with that qualifier, even if the text of the policy page doesn't reflect it.​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

3. Support. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 18:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

   Do you intend that the restriction on bots in NORM apply only to the part of a page that a bot edits and not to the entire page, Ungoliant?​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

   I don’t care. I’m more pleased with how this will affect human editors. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 21:30, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

4. Support and also support Msh210's qualifier. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
5. Support with msh210's qualifier. Re Dan Polansky's concern about "No leading or trailing whitespace in templates (name, parameter name and value), links, categories and so on" (WT:NORM#Whitespace and characters 4), I take that to be a regulation equivalent to WT:NORM#Categories and interwikis 4, but with broader application (so that it prohibits, for example, usage like {{ en-noun | head= noun }}, prescribing instead usage like {{en-noun|head=noun}}); @Daniel Carrero, can you confirm or correct my interpretation, please? Given that this policy document is intended to regulate entries, I would think that a stricture concerning the wikicode of templates would be ultra vires. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 15:50, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

   Some context:

   @CodeCat is the one who added the rule in the policy, initially written as No leading or trailing whitespace in templates (name, parameter name and value), links, categories and so on. For templates, newlines are allowed for clarity. (diff) Later, I asked about the part For templates, newlines are allowed for clarity. in the Poll 7, but five out of six people abstained and asked for more information, including myself, and the sixth person (@ObsequiousNewt) seemed to apply the rule to the source code of templates themselves, mentioning two Ancient Greek templates with different formatting. So I removed this last bit, (moved to Wiktionary talk:Normalization of entries#Removed items) though I admit I could have copied the entire rule when making the poll, for more clarity, or just removed the entire line from the policy until further discussion.

   Replying your question:

   Anyway, yes, you are correct in saying: "so that it prohibits, for example, usage like {{ en-noun | head= noun }}, prescribing instead usage like {{en-noun|head=noun}}."

   That said, WT:NORM does not attempt to regulate the source code of the templates themselves. But the policy does attempt to regulate how the templates are called in entries. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 17:06, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

   @Daniel Carrero: Thanks for the context and confirmation; and thank you, Dan Polansky, for your clarification. I myself dislike and do not use {{quote-book}}; however, the line breaks certainly do aid readability, and as such I would support allowing their use as an exception to the no-leading-or-trailing-whitespace regulation. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 02:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

   I was thinking, I also support, as you said, allowing their use as an exception to the no-leading-or-trailing-whitespace regulation. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 14:43, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

6. Support --Vahag (talk) 09:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

1. Abstain --Dan Polansky (talk). I suspect there is something I won't like when I see it applied but will not notice before. One thing suspect is this: "No leading or trailing whitespace in templates (name, parameter name and value), links, categories and so on"; I think it forbids template parameters to be on multiple lines since a newline before a new parameter is a trailing whitespace in template parameter value, and I am not sure people really want to have each template marked up on a single line as a result, especially {{quote-book}}. There may be other issues. None of this is bad enough for me to oppose at this point, I guess. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

   To clarify, the following seems to be forbidden by the wording of WT:NORM#Whitespace and characters, item 4 ("No leading or trailing whitespace in templates (name, parameter name and value), links, categories and so on."):
   
   #*{{quote-book|year=1899|author={{w|Stephen Crane}}
   |title=]|chapter=1
   |passage=There was some laughter, and Roddle was left ...}}
   

   
   It is because the newlines that enable the title and passage to start on a new line are trailing whitespace. From browsing the dump, I see that placing the passage on a new line seems rather common. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:46, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Passes 6-0-1. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:37, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Note that my qualifier (see above) passed 5–0–2 (or, perhaps fairer, 5–1–1). Thus, although no precise wording for WT:NORM to this effect has been voted on or will be edited into the page, the restriction on bots' edits applies only to the part of a page that a bot edits and not to the entire page.​—msh210℠ (talk) 05:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)