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Swiss German
Latest comment: 15 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion
I missed something in that nomination. I'm wikifying a page, including, among other things, converting French to {{etyl|fr|eo}}. I have to look up a bunch of different language and dialect names. Where do I go to for this, assuming this page disappears?—msh210℠19:09, 10 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
I agree. The page needs updating a bit, sure. But it looks good, tidy and wikified. The information is basically correct, who benefits from its deletion? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
Both of these work for more languages than WT:ETY/TEMP (which only lists 149 languages) and are sustainable. It is not sustainable to try to have a comprehensive, hand-made list of languages in their codes since Category:Language templates already has over 7,000 templates. Why would we want just a random listing of 149 languages? It offers nothing. --Bequw → ¢ • τ09:21, 11 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
None of those pages lists Yiddish, French, and Late Latin. The nominated page does. Since, as you say, the nominated page is incomplete, ideally we should complete it. Let's say I wanted to look up those three languages, because I was wikifying the etymology of the entry a meydl n'est pas une anathema (an English proverb from, you guessed it, Yiddish, French, and Late Latin). So I first look at the page ] and see two different ISO codes for Yiddish, plus one each for Eastern Yiddish and Western Yiddish. Which to use? I don't know, so I check the next page you, Bequw, list, viz ]. (I should check that even if Yiddish has only one ISO code, since you say that's where to look for languages for which we don't use the ISO code, and I don't know whether Yiddish is one such.) My browser's "find"/"search" function, applied to that page and "Yiddish", yields nothing, so I attack the third choice, ]. It again gives two codes for Yiddish, so, finally, I try the fourth page, ]. This, finally, tells me that "here a language has both , the use of the two-letter code is preferred", and tells me that that's yi, which I use. Next, for French, I get smart and check the last page first, so use fr. Finally, Late Latin. ] doesn't list anything for it, so I work backwards, checking RU's list (again nothing), and then ], which, finally, tells me to use {{etyl|LL.}}. That's a lot of work. I think that the nominated page should be kept and expanded to include all languages and dialects for which we currently have a code, or converted to a page that clearly gives directions on how to find such a code. It should also include the documentation for {{proto}}, or a good link thereto.—msh210℠17:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
Your hypothetical user had not read the policy page dealing with language codes (WT:LANGCODE) yet wanted to use them. Of course he was confused. The behavioral solution for this confusion is to read the policy page first (just as we expect editors to have read WT:ELE). An additional page will in the long run increase confusion (more policy pages, more linkrot/maintenance, etc.). I agree our other pages should be improved to the benefit novices. I've clarified on WT:LANGCODE that ISO 639 codes should be listed on language entries and updated WT:ETY to our current usage of language codes. Both of those pages already mention {{proto}}. If you foresee continued confusion, however, please improve them. I asked for UllmannBot to list dialect & language family codes on Wiktionary:Index to templates/languages when it regenerates the page. That would be what you'd want right? Because I cannot foresee any editor hand-adding the thousands of languages + codes that we use on Wiktionary to WT:ETY/TEMP. --Bequw → ¢ • τ19:59, 11 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
Fine, thanks. Redirect to WT:LANGCODE (rather than delete, because it has so many incoming links, and because people may seek the help this page affords).—msh210℠16:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
I've turned it into a page that transcludes Wiktionary:Index to templates/languages and the dialect and family code exceptions from Wiktionary:Language codes. It shows (almost) all possible codes that can be used with {{etyl}} (it's missing the standard ISO 639-5 codes because there's no auto-generated list of codes&names from the "Template:etyl:*" namespace). Hopefully that's the best of both worlds. --Bequw → ¢ • τ20:12, 13 November 2009 (UTC)Reply
Keep Both RU and CI seem to manage transitions with more grace than this. I had assumed this would be handled in the way that they have handled it, long transition, no scolding, some thought about automated replacement. I will henceforth make it a point of opposing any change that is accompanied by any risk of rough transitions and will be suspicious of recommendations by those who have a history of advocating such. I have wasted a lot of keystrokes trying to comply with various requests for uniformity and standardization. No more. DCDuringTALK15:37, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply
Sorry to be ill-tempered, but I am getting tired of doing more typing for the benefit of some naming scheme. I probably just need something like the old keyboard macros. Now if I could only find either what is built into Windows or is available open-source.... DCDuringTALK19:05, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply
Delete. The current templates will be converted to Lua at some point, and then we can just generate a list like this automatically, like at WT:LL. —CodeCat23:47, 2 August 2013 (UTC)Reply
