User talk:Udaradingin

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! -- Apisite (talk) 09:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Udaradingin Hi I just want to ask if you could fix Sundanese entries not being consistent on whether the main entry is in Latin script or the Sundanese script? Thanks! 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 18:20, 1 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Ysrael214. I’ve noticed that too. To be fair, most Sundanese texts uses Latin script nowadays, while the Modern Sundanese script is less common (although taught in schools in West Java and can be seen alongside Latin script in some street name signs). I guess you could say it's somewhat comparable to Tagalog's Baybayin. For that, I agree that the main entry should ideally follow the Latin script, similar to how Malay or Tagalog entries are structured (examples for Malay and Tagalog entry). And I'll try my best to fix them.

This would be a great topic to talk in the Beer parlour. Udaradingin (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Udaradingin Hi I made a link of sundanese links (maybe not complete) that has Sundanese scripts instead of the Latin one. Can you fix these? I don't have the time right now. Thank you so much!

https://en.wiktionary.orghttps://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7B%28n%29%3Fcog%5C%7Csu%5C%7C%5B%5EA-Za-z%5D%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 10:09, 22 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sure! Thanks for providing these, really appreciate it. I'll try my best.

Udaradingin (talk) 01:55, 23 January 2025 (UTC)Reply

Done! Udaradingin (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Udaradingin Here's also under translations I think

https://en.wiktionary.orghttps://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7Csu%5C%7C%5B%5EA-Za-z%5C%2F%5C-%5C%5B%27%22%5C%7B%5C%7C0-9%5D%2F 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 01:31, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'll see what I can do. Udaradingin (talk) 02:46, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I'm done creating Module:su-headword and Module:su-Latn-Sund-translit (just need documantation pages). How the Sundanese nasal prefix N- handle foreign consonants and clusters? In case of improvement for automatic verb inflection. Let me know if it needs more improvement! Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 23:34, 5 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Is the generated Sundanese script in ngahudangkeun correct? Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 00:07, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you so much for creating them!

There's not much convention regarding the appliance of N- for foreign consonants such as f, v, q, x, z, kh, sy; those consonants are usually assimilated into a more native-sounding consonants(e.g., 'f' in fitnah → 'p' in pitnah). However, I think that if, somehow, the original consonant is maintained as it is, it would follow the pattern of the closest consonant, aka the consonant that it assimilates into. This is not common though, because there are some people that would say the N- form of fungsi are either mungsikeun or ngafungsikeun. So, two choices, either: follow the pattern of the closest consonant, or just use the good ol' reliable nga-. Udaradingin (talk) 02:26, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Rentangan, Here are some examples for loaned consonants and it's conjugated form with N- that I can find from Coolsma:

• 'f' like in fitnah → 'p' in pitnah, therefore mitnah
• 'z' like in zakat → 'j' in jakat, therefore ngajakatan
• 'sy' like in syariat → 's' in saréat, therefore nyaréatkeun
• early loans of 'kh' like in Khamis → 'k' in Kemis , therefore ngemis
• later loans of 'kh' in khianat → 'h' in hianat, therefore ngahianat

Since all of the above-mentioned letters are now part of the Sundanese phonology, the conjugated forms are expected to follow the closest consonant. Hope this helps! Udaradingin (talk) 08:16, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

How about in lumur? Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 02:06, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Here's my comment on the module so far: It's great! However, there are rooms for improvement, especially for the diacritics. Sundanese diacritics (rarangkén) are not only limited to vowels and pangkon. There are diacritics that add consonants to the letters, such as panglayar which adds the final consonant '-r' to a letter. So lumur would be ᮜᮥᮙᮥᮁ (lu-muṙ) instead of ᮜᮥᮙᮥᮛ᮪ (lu-mu-r). There's also the panyecek which adds the final consonant '-ng' to a letter. In this case, ngahudangkeun would be ᮍᮠᮥᮓᮀᮊᮩᮔ᮪ (nga-hu-dang-keun) instead of ᮍᮠᮥᮓᮍ᮪ᮊᮩᮔ᮪ (nga-hu-da-ng-keun). There are also diacritics for medial consonants like panyakra (“CrV diacritic”), panyiku (“ClV diacritic”), and pamingkal (“CyV diacritic”). By comparison, its more similar to Javanese than Makassar.

I might come by the module page to help out some other time, but I doubt that I can do much since I don't have much expertise in coding:(

Udaradingin (talk) 02:46, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Okay, I see. This will take a lot of patience, since reversed transliteration back to Sundanese script seems to work when we specify a syllable manually. I'm working on it, don't worry! Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 09:43, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can you explain more about additional diacritics like panyakra, panyiku and pamingkal? So that I can map their syllables properly. How about combinations like "kry", "kly" and "yy" written and also nasal combinations like "-ngrar" and "-mran"? Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 10:15, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sure! So, all of these three diacritics gives a medial consonant, which essentially means that it slips in a consonant before the vowel. Panyakra slips an /r/ sound at the middle of a letter, as seen in the word ᮊᮔ᮪ᮎᮢ (kan-cra). Panyiku slips an /l/ sound at the middle of a letter, as seen in the word ᮙᮧᮊᮣ (mo-kla). Pamingkal slips a /j/ (y) sound at the middle of a letter, as seen in the word ᮊᮛᮕᮡᮊ᮪ (ka-ra-pya-k). These three are the only, officially-used, commonly taught, surviving medial consonant diacritic of Sundanese script. We used to have the character ◌ᮭ to symbolize the medial 'w' in Old Sundanese, but it's no longer used in the modern script, it's practically obsolete.

In Sundanese, "kry", "kly", and "yy" are impossible, because 'y' is not considered a vowel in Sundanese. Perhaps you were typing something else? Also, about "-ngrar" and "-mran", do you mean it as a combinations of diacritics with the ngalagena letter or just diacritics alone? Because if we're talking about the former, "ng-rar" (though super-rare) is entirely possible to exist as a single glyph/syllable: ᮍᮢᮁ (ng-ra-r). While "m-ra-n" is not a single glyph since it would be ᮙᮢᮔ᮪. (There's also no final -n in Sundanese diacritics.)

I think basing our module by using Module:jv-translit might be easier instead of manually typing all of the possible combinations like in Module:mak-Latn-Bugi-translit. Good luck on your work! Udaradingin (talk) 12:37, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I should base it on Module:jv-translit. It feels ridiculous to type all possible combinations. I've tried to create the backward transliterator by copy pasting Module:Sund-translit (which is the Sundanese to Latin transliterator) and also switching its Latin and Sundanese slots/arguments, but it didn't work somehow. I'll try next time, though. Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 12:46, 6 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

I've partially reworked Module:su-Latn-Sund-translit so that we don't need to specify the syllables manually anymore. Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 11:48, 7 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

It appears we have a new problem now. When I tried to check the headword module usage in harigu manukeun, the Sundanese script shows up as ᮠᮃᮃᮁᮄᮌᮥ ᮙᮃᮃᮔᮥᮊᮨᮅᮔ᮪ (ha-a-ar-i-gu ma-a-a-nu-ke-u-n) instead of ᮠᮛᮤᮌᮥ ᮙᮔᮥᮊᮩᮔ᮪ (ha-ri-gu ma-nu-keu-n). Udaradingin (talk) 06:55, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, you can revert my recent changes back to the revision where it contains manually specified syllables instead. And by the way, I use ChatGPT to modify the module, by copypasting it and telling the AI what to modify. You may do so if you log in with an account. And sorry again if I'm not as productive as before, because I have an educational schedule that runs from morning to early afternoon. I will try again though when I have free time. Rentangan ^{(talk, contribs)} 07:23, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's fine, I understand. Sorry if I sound a little bit demanding. You've done quite a lot yourself and I appreciate it.

I'll see what I can do to help. Udaradingin (talk) 09:16, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply