Module talk:quote

It was mentioned that this doesn't comply with WT:QUOTE. If this is the case, and if it matters, hopefully someone can point out the problem; I know that it's no worse than what I or many other editors produce by hand, and at least any problems can be cleaned up in a single edit rather than hundreds. -- Visviva 06:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)Reply

I love this template. It reduces the strain of having to focus on how to properly format the quotation. With this template, I just fill-in a questionnaire, kind of. --Daniel Polansky 08:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)Reply

How can this be made to give a better result than appears at Citations:Ucalegon? DCDuring TALK 00:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

By using |indent2=*:, as mentioned above. H. (talk) 15:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

But still better, of course, would be a test for the Citations namespace and adding proper indent automatically. Which technician is up to this? H. (talk) 09:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Done; probably not the ideal solution but it should work for now. Will need to fix this for other quote-x templates also. -- Visviva 15:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Often large works are divided into volumes, a parameter for this is needed.

Furthermore, often chapters only have a number, in that case, the output of the template is strange. One should distinguish between chapter-title= and chapter=. H. (talk) 09:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

For chapter numbers, you can use section=Chapter 4, which I'll grant you is a bit backwards. Will add volume parameter shortly, along with some others; I had simply been treating it "volume X" as part of the title, which is fairly common practice IMX but certainly not ideal. -- Visviva 15:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Done now (some time ago). -- Visviva 14:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

• "section=" does not work at this time. DCDuring TALK 16:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

Shouldn't "year_published" be displayed a the head of the citation line in bold rather than "year" (as the documentation defines them) for translations? Or perhaps the documentation should be changed so that "year" should be the year of the translation, and "year_published" the publication of the original. DCDuring TALK 20:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

—Ruakh_TALK 18:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

I think that the quoted text would be better presented in italics. --Jerome Potts 18:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

When both are present, shouldn't the year published come before the year? The current ordering seems misleading for translations- for example:

• Lua error: Parameter 1 is required.

The actual translation was created in 1794, which seems more important for scortation (an English entry) than the date of the original Latin. Nadando 21:39, 21 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

This template produces an extra comma after a date, eg at ] it produces "1997 July 6,, Studies in Doctrine: Understanding Doctrine" where the ideal format is "1997 July 6, Studies in Doctrine: Understanding Doctrine". This occurs only after a month or a month-and-date is given; it does not occur if only a year is given. It is possibly related to the comma bug mentioned early on this talkpage. - -sche (discuss) 19:59, 30 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

It has to do with the author= stuff being broken. I'll see what I can do. —Internoob 02:32, 31 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

 Done —Internoob 02:48, 31 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! - -sche (discuss) 03:01, 31 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome. :/ ~ Robin 08:16, 31 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

Hi, could the following changes be made to the template?

• There should be a comma before the word editor (that is, "George Crabb, editor"), as shown in the example below.
• Instead of "edition 2nd", the template should indicate "2nd edition".
• When the parameter |pages= is used, the template should display "pages" rather than "page".

Lua error: Parameter 1 is required.

Smuconlaw (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)Reply

 Done. If any entries used the wording "edition 2" (rather than "edition 2nd"), this change alters them to "2 edition", which is suboptimal but tolerable IMO. - -sche (discuss) 23:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. Not sure how common "edition 2" is – I would have thought it is much more common to use an ordinal number. Smuconlaw (talk) 09:45, 4 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

I'd been putting "year" before anything else in this template, and I just realized that it doesn't work that way (at least not anymore--I'm fairly sure I was able to do that in the past). What I mean is that I was writing {{quote-book|author=...|year=2016}}, but that now returns "(Can we date this quote)" and the author ended up being ignored (but not all the time), for some reason. Instead, it seems that I have to put the year further back in the template, which makes absolutely no sense, considering that it's what displays first in the actual output.

To see an example, see this revision of "klatawaw", where I just noticed it. I'm fairly certain that it displayed properly when I created the page, so I'm curious to know what the problem is now, and why "year=" cannot be entered as the first paramater (and why one of the authors didn't show up).... Andrew Sheedy (talk) 04:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

It's because there was a typo in the template. Here is the original template:

{{quote-book|year=1887|author=John Harrison Mills|title=Chronicles of the Twenty-first Regiment New York State Volunteers|chapter=10|url=https://books.google.ca/books?id=sy1CAAAAIAAJ&dq=clattawa&source=gbs_navlinks_s||page=204|passage=The midday echoes reply drowsily, the solitary horseman curses and “'''clattawa’s'''” up the road as though suddenly impressed with the idea that somebody is hooking his dinner over the hill}}

If you look carefully, before "page=204" there are two pipe characters instead of one ("||"). Thus, the first pipe character was interpreted as the first unnamed parameter ({{{1}}}), which is for the year. Since no value was given, the template interpreted this as a failure to provide the year. Currently, the unnamed parameter takes priority over any value given for |year=, but I will fix this to prevent such accidents. Also, see the changes I've made at the klatawaw page. — SMUconlaw (talk) 12:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! I think that extra pipe was do to a misinterpretation by me of how the template worked. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 22:50, 9 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

No worries. — SMUconlaw (talk) 13:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

The current placement of chapter seems awkward to me, shouldn't it be after the name of the work? For example:

Year - Author Name, Title of Work, chapter # ...

The order should be related to the importance of the information, and surely the title is more important than the chapter or page number. - TheDaveRoss 14:43, 6 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Well, the aim was to align our templates with {{cite book}}. Also, I believe many citation formats place the chapter in front of the title. — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

While I am generally in favor of consistency and adhering to broader standards, in this case the standards seem wrong. We also deviate in other ways (such as putting the year first) to accommodate our particular needs, this seems like a place where that is appropriate. I think I prefer keeping the author and title together, and then adding the information about location of the word within the work in increasing order of specificity (Volume, Part, Chapter, Section, Page, Paragraph/Stanza/Line) or similar. - TheDaveRoss 15:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps you can start a wider discussion at the Beer Parlour? — SMUconlaw (talk) 16:02, 6 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

What's going on here??? Why do they all say today's date beside each year? I didn't arbitrarily add that date and when I press control F, I can't find the keywords "27" anywhere in the wiki markup. PseudoSkull (talk) 04:08, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply

Use the year parameter if you don't have a specific date. DTLHS (talk) 04:12, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply

The |date= parameter makes use of the wikitext {{#date}} function to format dates. If one only specifies a year, the function adds to it today's date. Don't ask me why, but that's how it's programmed to work. As DTLHS mentioned above, if only specifying a year, use |year=. — SMUconlaw (talk) 09:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Reply

Should this template add to categories, e.g. "X terms with quotations"? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:03, 6 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

The template doesn’t recognize languages at the moment, and I’m personally not sure how to do that as I’m unfamiliar with Lua and the language module(s). I support the idea if someone is willing to work on the template. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:42, 6 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Atitarev, Sgconlaw: you don't need them. You just need to make {{quote-meta}} use {{quote}}. See User:Alexis Jazz/Sandbox and User:Alexis Jazz/Sandbox/qm for example. (see Maduro diet for the example in action) You need to add "|language = {{{language|}}}" to quote-book and fuck quite a bit with {{quote-meta}}. Indentation is a bit broken in my example, so you'll need to fix that. I got rid of the brackets=on rubble, only 91 pages use it anyway and it seems to be utterly useless. Alexis Jazz (talk) 18:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

The parameter |brackets= is intended for less common cases where the quotation is provided to illustrate a term other than the entry which sheds light on the entry, or where the entry is a mention rather than a use. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

On the rather small number of pages that use it I just find it confusing and strange. I suppose the functionality could be kept, but I stripped it because it was difficult enough to make it work as it is. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Then you would need to add language parameters to all existing uses of {{quote-meta}} first. DTLHS (talk) 18:56, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Rather than use {{quote}} which is formatted differently from the other {{quote-...}} templates, I think it would be better if a free-standing language module were created that could be used in different templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Please explain what you mean, that doesn't make sense to me. DTLHS (talk) 19:15, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I meant that it would be useful to have a module the sole job of which is to convert language codes into categories. Such a module could be invoked from within any template, and would generate an appropriate language category, e.g., if the template contained a line like "{{#invoke:lang|fr|terms with quotations}}", the module would then generate "]". Having such a free-standing or independent module would be useful, as it could then be used by many different templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

See Module:languages#getByCode. DTLHS (talk) 19:53, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ah, let me look into that. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: I think {{cln|fr|terms with quotations}} does what you want. — Eru·tuon 06:53, 17 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: that would possibly be better, but who is gonna do that? I just offered something that appears to work with the advantage of actually existing. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

I think this would be well within the capability of editors like @Erutuon and @DTLHS who have worked on Module:usex. It's a question of whether they have the time and inclination to work on it at the moment. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@DTLHS: I guess, but that's only 8 templates. Any non-English main entries that use them indirectly should be checked/have parameter added. (could maybe be done by a bot?) Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

No it's not 8 templates, it's every page that uses those templates. DTLHS (talk) 19:38, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@DTLHS: No it's just 8 templates that use {{quote-meta}} directly. Any page that uses one of those 8 templates needs to be checked, but only has to be changed if the quote is not English. This should probably be done anyway regardless of how this is tackled because quotations now either use quote-... and can't possibly be categorized or they use quote-..., omit the "passage" and are followed by {{quote}} which is kinda stupid. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Actually, to ask a more fundamental question, what is the purpose of having categories like "English terms with quotations"? It doesn't seem very useful to me. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

To find lemmas without quotations, like a maintenance cat? incategory:"English lemmas" -incategory:"English terms with quotations" Alexis Jazz (talk) 20:51, 12 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Alexis Jazz, Atitarev, DTLHS, Erutuon: I have updated {{quote-meta/source}}, {{quote-book}} and {{quote-journal}} so that they now provide for language categorization. The parameter |lang= with an appropriate language code must be added. I will eventually roll this out to all {{quote}} family templates and update the documentation pages. — SGconlaw (talk) 22:07, 18 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I noticed that every entry that contains {{quote-book}}/{{quote-journal}}/{{quote-magazine}} is not categorized to "...terms with quotations". Could you fix this? --YukaSylvie (talk) 00:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

The parameter |lang= and the correct language code needs to be manually added to at least one {{quote}} template on each entry page. I don’t think this can be done by bot because it would be hard for a bot to determine what language a particular quotation is in. — SGconlaw (talk) 01:25, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the work guys. Now that the language param is added, is it possible to make use of automated transliterations as in {{usex}}, etc. for languages where it's possible? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:34, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ideally the entire quote rendering portion of this template would be replaced with {{quote}}. DTLHS (talk) 01:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Atitarev: what are automated transliterations? — SGconlaw (talk) 02:50, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Examples at Template:ux/documentation or всле́дствие (vslédstvije):

Полицейские огородили середину шоссе́ на гора́х, всле́дствие чего́ бегле́ц был на воле.

Policejskije ogorodili seredinu šossɛ́ na goráx, vslédstvije čevó begléc byl na vole.

Police officers blocked the middle of the highway as a consequence that a fugitive was on the loose.

This part Policejskije ogorodili seredinu šossɛ́ na goráx, vslédstvije čevó begléc byl na vole. is generated automatically. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:16, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ah, so. Let me look into that. — SGconlaw (talk) 03:31, 25 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

• I have seen articles like this, a single entry in a dictionary having a DOI, while the whole book has DOI too. We probably could use a |entrydoi=. In an example in Talk:إهليلج not even the book DOI displays though for a reason I don’t now examine.
• We probably need |columnurl=. {{R:gez:Dillmann}} is an example of column links being coded but it uses |section= because apparently with |column= and |columns= no link is made, which is why it has tedious if statements. @Sgconlaw Fay Freak (talk) 00:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

It seems a bit excessive to provide both DOIs. I'd just use the most specific one. Yes, I can add |columnurl= if it's thought to be useful. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:42, 1 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I have posted the issue here because related or all discussions are here, but as I see you have updated quote-book but not cite-book, don’t forget to update {{cite-book}}, which I could use for {{R:gez:Dillmann}}, {{R:de:SI}}, {{R:ota:Meninski}} (the last one if I knew a formula to calculate the URL from column numbers, maybe you are better with it). Fay Freak (talk) 22:07, 27 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I couldn't remember where this conversation took place. Thanks for reminding me. I've added |columnurl= to {{cite-book}} and {{cite-journal}} already, and will update the other templates and the documentation pages shortly. As for calculating the URL from column numbers, provide me with some sample URLs on the template talk page and ping me there, and I'll see if it's feasible. — SGconlaw (talk) 22:38, 27 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

OK, I have also added |column=, |columns= and |columnurl= to {{cite-web}} and updated all the documentation pages. — SGconlaw (talk) 06:54, 28 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

Discussion moved from User talk:Sgconlaw.

Hey. You seem like a helpful, willing, hard-working, non-judgmental and knowledgeable user. Would you mind fiddling with Template:quote-book so that things can be categorized into, for example Category:Requests for date/Milton? --XY3999 (talk) 12:20, 24 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

@XY3999: sorry for the late response. Could you explain a bit more? What about just using {{rfdate}}? — SGconlaw (talk) 18:36, 30 September 2018 (UTC)Reply

Discussion moved from Template talk:quote-meta.

@Sgconlaw: I saw @Benwing redoing the quotes and wanted to get in on the action. Most of my problems have already been mentioned, but I'd like to embed a quote from a Turgenev story I found for отдавать себе отчёт that I've tried out two different ways, to see what concrete advice might result. The first way shows year, book title, page # and url for the original, and the second way gives that data for the translation:

• 1858, Иван Сергеевич Тургенев (Ivan Sergeyevich Turgenev), “Ася ”, in Constance Garnett, transl., Современник‎, volume LXVII, section VII, page 56:

  Я не отдава́л себе́ отчёта в том, что во мне происходи́ло; одно́ чу́вство бы́ло мне я́сно: нежела́ние ви́деться с Га́гиными.

  Ja ne otdavál sebé otčóta v tom, što vo mne proisxodílo; odnó čúvstvo býlo mne jásno: neželánije vídetʹsja s Gáginymi.

  I did not take stock of what was passing within me. One feeling was clear to me; a disinclination to see the Gagins.

• 1898 , Иван Сергеевич Тургенев (Ivan Sergeyevich Turgenev), “Ася ”, in Constance Garnett, transl., A Lear of the steppes, and other stories‎, section VII, page 260:

  Я не отдава́л себе́ отчёта в том, что во мне происходи́ло; одно́ чу́вство бы́ло мне я́сно: нежела́ние ви́деться с Га́гиными.

  Ja ne otdavál sebé otčóta v tom, što vo mne proisxodílo; odnó čúvstvo býlo mne jásno: neželánije vídetʹsja s Gáginymi.

  I did not take stock of what was passing within me. One feeling was clear to me; a disinclination to see the Gagins.

I'd like to be able to combine all the information, but don't see how that can be done gracefully. In the first case, if you read it naively, it seems to imply that Garnett translated the journal Sovremennik, which is certainly not the case. The second way has fewer problems, but I'd rather have the original year more prominent than the year of the translation (and I'm not sure use of |origdate= is legitimate for this purpose). Any advice on the best current practice for this case will be much appreciated. — Mudbringer (talk) 07:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Mudbringer: hope you don't mind that I've relocated your comment here, as it is not directly related to {{quote-meta}}. My suggestion would be to use the original parameters to refer to the work in the original language, and the second set of parameters (|title2=, |location2=, |publisher2=, and so on) to refer to the translated work. See the template description page for instructions. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:20, 5 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Thank you very much for the help. Here's the best I can do so far:

• 1858, Иван Сергеевич Тургенев (Ivan Sergeyevich Turgenev), “Ася”, in Constance Garnett, transl., Современник‎, volume LXVII, Saint Petersburg, section VII, page 56; translated as “Asya”, in A Lear of the steppes, and other stories‎^], London, 1898, section VII, page 260:

  Я не отдава́л себе́ отчёта в том, что во мне происходи́ло; одно́ чу́вство бы́ло мне я́сно: нежела́ние ви́деться с Га́гиными.

  Ja ne otdavál sebé otčóta v tom, što vo mne proisxodílo; odnó čúvstvo býlo mne jásno: neželánije vídetʹsja s Gáginymi.

  I did not take stock of what was passing within me. One feeling was clear to me; a disinclination to see the Gagins.

That's pretty good, I think, but the translator appears in the wrong place. I tried to use |translator2= or |2ndtranslator= but those didn't work. Is there any chance that could be made to work? — Mudbringer (talk) 02:26, 6 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I realized that’s something I haven’t fixed. Will work on that soon. By the way, you don’t have to add brackets around URLs as these are already added by the template. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

 Done @Mudbringer: OK, I have added |translator2= (|trans2= and |translators2= can also be used). — SGconlaw (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Excellent! Thank you so much. Mudbringer (talk) 13:53, 6 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I tried using the second set of parameters (|title2=, |location2=, |publisher2=, ...) to specify a translation. It doesn't work at all well if you don't happen to specify |location2=. The requirement for |location2= is very strange; can this be fixed? Benwing2 (talk) 10:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

I was looking for a way for the template to be able to recognize when a second work is specified without editors having to explicitly indicate |newversion= each time, and came to the conclusion that at a minimum editors would indicate the imprint information of the second work (especially if it is a newer version of the first work, e.g., "Original Work, London: First Publisher, republished New York, N.Y.: Second Publisher, 2019"). In what circumstances would it be appropriate not to give at least the imprint information for the second work? — SGconlaw (talk) 10:54, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw The example I encountered was on калёный, where the location wasn't available in the info given. Luckily I was able to find it on the Internet, but that's not in general the case. Why not make it work if newversion= is given regardless of any other info, and if not check for any of title2, translator2 or location2? Benwing2 (talk) 12:36, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Oops, sorry, the correct entry is разноплемённый. In that case, the location2 is ancillary info. In any case, I went and implemented my suggestion in {{quote-meta}}, hope it's OK. Benwing2 (talk) 12:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

That’s a good suggestion. (Also, the usual practice if the place of publication can’t be found on a site like http://www.worldcat.org and is really unknown is to indicate “” (Latin for “no location”: sine loco).) — SGconlaw (talk) 15:41, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

I don’t know that all would harmonize with cases when one quotes a translation in a foreign language and gives the original data (which is not the entry language, but the underlying text) too, and then translates oneself. The case discussed is Talk:kalsarikänni and shown on Imbiss. In case this is forgotten. Or another case, where one quotes non-English translations of editions of texts: I would perhaps quote, for Spanish entries, Banqueri’s words, which translates ibn al-ʿawwām, and then translate the whole, hence implement a middle layer in {{RQ:Ibn al-ʿawwām}} to show the Spanish text, if {{quote-book}} had it only, so first Arabic then Spanish then English for Spanish entries, because why not if I have it all. Also one needs to be sure that the |lang= |worklang= parameter stuff displays and categorizes correctly. I am just saying. You might be at the point where you want to ditch this template and make a new template for the now “complicated purposes”. Fay Freak (talk) 11:05, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Frankly, if it is really necessary to present information in such a complex way (and I very doubt that that is necessary in many cases), it would be better to code the quotation manually using wikitext than to try and create a template that would cater to such an uncommon circumstance. In the example you have just given, for instance, if you are using the work in a Spanish entry, I'm not sure there is much point in indicating the original Arabic text. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:39, 8 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw See умудриться. In this case the non-formatted entry looked like this:

2013, Светлана Александровна Алексиевич (Svetlana Alexandrovna Alexievich), Время секонд хэнд (Second-hand Time), part 2, О чужом горе … (On a stranger's grief …)

I'm not sure how to specify both the part number and name and have it look right. Benwing2 (talk) 00:55, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

I usually put the name in parentheses after the part name, like this: |section=part 2 (On a Stranger’s Grief). — SGconlaw (talk) 03:37, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw How to then specify the translation of the section? There's no |trans-section= AFAIK. Benwing2 (talk) 05:19, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

My suggestion would be |section=part 2 (Время секонд хэнд ). — SGconlaw (talk) 09:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Hi, @Benwing2, these parameters just stopped working. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:29, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

OK, think you've fixed it. Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Yup. I was experimenting trying to reduce memory usage and accidentally committed some test code. Benwing2 (talk) 19:34, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Last night I turned off the test code that was using the old implementation in Template:quote-meta/source; now, the output of the Lua code is being used. I'm thinking of turning some maintenance messages into errors to make it more likely that people will notice the problems. I think I fixed all the existing pages that would trigger these issues. In particular, I'm thinking of making the following cases be errors:

1. Omitting the |lang=.
2. Specifying both |date= and |year=.
3. Specifying |archiveurl= without |archivedate=.
4. Specifying |archiveurl= without |url=.

Thoughts? Benwing2 (talk) 19:41, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

That sounds fine to me. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I'm also thinking of implementing trans-* for authors, which should be easy now that the code is in Lua and won't require any change to the top-level templates Template:quote-book, Template:quote-journal, etc. Benwing2 (talk) 19:42, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

Could you elaborate? What would "trans-*" be for? — SGconlaw (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw For a transl(iter)ation of the author's name into English. In a lot of Russian quotes I ran into this issue, and would typically write |author=Пётр Ильич Чайковский (Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky) where it might be better to write |author=Пётр Ильич Чайковский + |trans-author=Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky. Note that the transliteration of Russian names into English is often idiosyncratic, e.g. "Tchaikovsky" is the standard transliteration but isn't terribly faithful to the Russian; our standard system would render it as Čajkovskij, and a less scientific system might use Chaykovskiy. (Rachmaninoff is even less accurate.) Benwing2 (talk) 20:40, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I see. Sure. — SGconlaw (talk) 06:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

Hi, @Benwing2, in {{quote-newsgroup}} the message-id is appearing twice: see the template documentation and scouthouse (1994 quotation). — SGconlaw (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw This is because Module:quote directly supports the |id= parameter, and Template:quote-newsgroup also passes the |id= parameter as part of the |section= parameter. This probably "worked" before because Template:quote-newsgroup wasn't explicitly passing |id= to Template:quote-meta/source, but the Lua implementation passes all parameters through automatically unless explicitly overridden. Benwing2 (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

So how do we fix that? — SGconlaw (talk) 02:07, 15 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

It depends on what you want to have happen. You could not pass the section= param in Template:quote-newsgroup, for example. Benwing2 (talk) 05:45, 15 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

Ah, OK. I changed |section= to |id=. But is there some reason why we want it to appear in a smaller typeface? — SGconlaw (talk) 10:57, 15 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw It appears in smaller typeface because that's what Template:quote-meta/source does. We can change that if you want. Benwing2 (talk) 17:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

Odd error in oligomorph. — Eru·tuon 01:09, 16 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

That's because |1= was supplied, which is passed to |year= by the template. Benwing2 (talk) 17:01, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I noticed an issue with {{quote-song}} when |author= and |authorlink= are used: see jar (2010 quotation). — SGconlaw (talk) 16:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw This might be a similar issue as with {{quote-newsgroup}}; |authorlink= is automatically passed through, but the template also passes |authorlink= as part of |author=. What might be best is for me to implement a way of having the outer template disable passing a given param through. This would also work for {{quote-newsgroup}}. Benwing2 (talk) 17:05, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

I wonder why the issue doesn't arise with {{quote-book}} or {{quote-journal}}? — SGconlaw (talk) 17:41, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw The definitions of {{quote-book}} and {{quote-journal}} don't squash |authorlink= into |author=. Benwing2 (talk) 20:07, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Fixed up {{quote-song}} and {{quote-newsgroup}}. Benwing2 (talk) 20:30, 17 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

• {{quote-book|mul|editor=EDITOR|quotee=QUOTEE|title=TITLE|year=1900}}
• {{quote-book|mul|author=AUTHOR|quotee=QUOTEE|title=TITLE|year=1900}}
• {{quote-book|mul|author=AUTHOR|editor=EDITOR|quotee=QUOTEE|title=TITLE|year=1900}}

produces

• 1900,, EDITOR, editor, TITLE:

• 1900, AUTHOR, quoting QUOTEE, TITLE:

• 1900, AUTHOR, quoting QUOTEE, EDITOR, editor, TITLE:

This does not seem to be desirable (extra comma and no QUOTEE). @Benwing2 Can this be fixed? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 03:44, 12 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Suzukaze-c Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 14:17, 12 January 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi, @Benwing2. Hi, if you have time could you look into the following issue, which seems to be related to this module? If |year= is preceded by a., c., or p., the module automatically creates a tooltip and a link to entries in "Wiktionary:Glossary" explaining that these abbreviations mean ante, circa, and post.

However, I've found that if anything is added after the year, for some reason it gets truncated. Thus, when I added to {{RQ:Beaumont Fletcher Comedies and Tragedies}} the following line under the |year= parameter:

| Bonduca|The Tragedie of Bonduca = c. 1613''' (first performance)'''​

what gets displayed (for example, at doubt) is "c. 1613 (", and everything else is truncated. (​ inserts a zero-width space, and is needed so that the bold markup doesn't choke.) I "fixed" this by changing this to "''c.''" in the quotation template, but this is not ideal as the abbreviation now appears bold, and the tooltip and link are gone. Any idea what is causing the problem? Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:56, 5 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Fixed. The issue was the regex in Module:time that removes the initial c., which was written incorrectly so that it removed any lowercase letter and following character rather than just a lowercase letter + following period at the beginning of the string. Benwing2 (talk) 21:22, 7 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: great, thank you! — SGconlaw (talk) 05:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)Reply

What's the current practice for specifying pen names? Would it be worth to add a template parameter? – Jberkel 07:29, 20 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

I've just been putting |author={{w|George Eliot}} . I suppose we could add an additional parameter to generate that, if it was felt to be desirable. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I think that would be good, or at least mention the convention you use as a guideline in the documentation. – Jberkel 09:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi there,

i wish there were a nice interwiki link feature, such as to Wikisource : See this edit and its result : i had to hack my way to link to the WS page, was unable to use the url or chapterurl parms without a full url. (My contributing to Wikisource makes me favor it over external urls such as Google Books.) —Jerome Potts (talk) 10:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Jerome Charles Potts: For |chapterurl= or |pageurl= you can also use {{fullurl:s:en:Foo/Bar}}: |title=The Apple-Tree Girl, |chapter=7 |chapterurl={{fullurl:s:The Apple-Tree Girl/Chapter 7}}. But I agree, we should have built-in support for Wikisource, ideally with special tooling to import citations. – Jberkel 11:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

Thank you much for this tip ; i now edited that page to make use of it, and it is better ; however, only the chapter number gets linked, not the full string "chapter nn", which i would prefer, since a single- or double-digit number provides a very short link, not so visible (admittedly marked with an external link arrow) (So i made sure to use the longer roman numeration). —Jerome Potts (talk) 12:46, 4 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

"only the chapter number gets linked", not sure if this is deliberate, for pages we create links including "page", "page NNN". @Smuconlaw? – Jberkel 09:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

I assume it was intentional; as far as I recall the template was always like that, even before I started working on it. (Note the change in my user name which took place some time back.) — SGconlaw (talk) 10:37, 5 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Can the ts= parameter be added to the template as in 𒃵𒂷? فين أخاي (talk) 21:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Use |tr= or |transliteration=? — SGconlaw (talk) 04:26, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Transliteration is different from transcription. فين أخاي (talk) 19:12, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Fenakhay: I'm unsure of the difference, but would there ever be a situation where a quotation would require both a transcription and a transliteration? If not, it may be simpler to update the template. (Also pinging @Benwing2 for information.) — SGconlaw (talk) 19:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Fenakhay, Sgconlaw I can add this. Sgconlaw: The ts= param was added for certain languages (e.g. Tibetan, Akkadian) where the written form differs significantly from the pronunciation, and there was a desire to indicate both. Before this was added, there was a lot of back and forth as to whether e.g. Tibetan should transliterate according to the written form (which approximates the speech of 600 AD) or the spoken form. Sometimes there are huge differences between the two, e.g. the letters in དབུས spell out dbus but are now pronounced with a falling tone. Benwing2 (talk) 19:49, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: great, thanks. I guess we'll have to decide on the order and degree of indentation. Does the following make sense?

In other words, everything after the passage quoted is indented by one additional tab stop. I am wondering whether the footer should be indented by two tab stops, but then there would need to be a way for only one tab stop to be used if there is no transcription, transliteration or translation, which might be complicated. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:59, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I think this makes total sense except that probably the transliteration should go before the transcription; this is how it's formatted in headwords, with the transcription formatted as /.../. If you think the footer should be indented extra, this can be done pretty easily as the code to do it is in Lua. Benwing2 (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

BTW the code that formats the part below the header is the same code that formats {{ux}} and {{quote}}. Benwing2 (talk) 20:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

OK, that sounds good. I think the footer should be given an extra indentation because it's supposed to be a comment on the quotation and whatever else follows it. But if there is no transliteration, transcription or translation, then it should just be advanced by one tab stop (not two) more than the quotation. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw, Fenakhay OK, it's all implemented in {{quote-book}} and all the modules underneath it. I still need to add the same support to the remaining quote templates. Please take a look at 𒃵𒂷 for an example; I made the transcription be surrounded by slashes but not in italics; if you think it would look better in italics, let me know and I'll change it. BTW in terms of what you mention above about the extra footer indentation, it's clear from the source code that the intention was already there to do that both for |source= and |footer=, but the generated HTML was wrong, so it wasn't happening. Benwing2 (talk) 23:27, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

WT:QUOTE suggests "Generally, the quoted text itself should not contain links", but the Russian example in the template documentation ("Ballad of the King's Bread") turns every single word into a link, which seems a bit excessive, and provides bad guidance followed by some editors, as happened in Special:Diff/62399967/62399989. —Jberkel 13:00, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Jberkel: Do you speak Russian? I don’t, so I can’t tell what is worth linking and what isn’t. — SGconlaw (talk) 13:27, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Maybe it's useful in Russian for some reason, or in this specific instance, but having it as an example for quoting text in a foreign language suggests that this is common practice/required for all other languages. –Jberkel 14:37, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Jberkel: in that case should we just remove that example? — SGconlaw (talk) 15:18, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

No, maybe it should be left as is, as an example of a quoted work with transliteration, but we could add another example above which doesn't use linking. – Jberkel 16:04, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw |2ndauthor= (or |2ndfirst= and |2ndlast=) and |2ndauthorlink= are equivalent to |author= (or |first= and |last=) and |authorlink= for a new version; what are the equivalent parameters of |author2= (or |first2= and |last2=) and |authorlink2= (also |author3=, etc.) for a new version? J3133 (talk) 05:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

For simplicity, there aren’t any (that I’m aware of, anyway). Just put them all in |2ndauthor=. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: if the language of a work is not English, is there a way (or can you add a way) to suppress the requirement for an English translation to be added? See {{RQ:Promptorium parvulorum}}, a Middle English–Latin dictionary. It doesn't really make sense to call for a translation for this work. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Hey! I saw you were the last editor here and want to ask you to make a change on this page (or recommend who I should ask about this). I believe that the example for Open Library number is not good enough. In this edit: I learned that when you add a Open Library number, you have to omit the "OL" prefix in the number for the link to be effective. Therefore, listing "OL7954505M" as an example on this page is not enough- we need to tell people that the OL prefix needs to be chopped off. Thanks for any guidance! Also- "|type=Translation” is not working for me. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Inside "quote-book" : this is pretty hacky. Is there a better way? Taylor 49 (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

It's not supported. I guess you want it to link to both the translation and the text? DTLHS (talk) 21:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Taylor 49: you could use the "new version" parameters – indicate the Hungarian work as the primary work using |title=Alapítvány és Birodalom, |page=, |pageurl=, etc., and then specify |newversion=translation of and |title2=Foundation and Empire, |page2=, |pageurl2=, etc. (Personally, I wouldn't bother to link to the English version as well, since this is a Hungarian entry.) — SGconlaw (talk) 21:59, 30 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

What about for multiple available scans of a book? For example, and ; or and . (@Sgconlaw) —Fish bowl (talk) 06:56, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

 Done: |urls=. —Fish bowl (talk) 07:18, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Fish bowl: when would it be necessary to provide multiple URLs? Only the URL actually cited from needs to be provided. — Sgconlaw (talk) 11:46, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: "Alternative scans" is pretty self-explanatory to me. One might be slightly damaged or of a different scan quality. Or perhaps one would like to link to both Wikisource and to the original scan. —Fish bowl (talk) 23:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Fish bowl: I remain rather unconvinced it is a good idea to add multiple URLs for redundancy’s sake (if a particular link goes down then at that stage an alternative link can be searched for), but not strongly enough to argue for the new parameter to be removed. Let’s see how people use it. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:11, 21 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I added an interface onto {{quote-book}}. See {{RQ:Ascham Scholemaster}} for an example. If you write the code the way of this example, it automatically handles |text=, |passage=, |page=, |pages=, |footer= and |brackets= and |authorlink= (in the last case, not if you explicitly specify |authorlink=), so you don't have to give them explicitly. There are a few extra arguments you can pass in:

1. |template=: Name of template, instead of quote-book.
2. |textparam=: Name of text/passage param to use if neither |text= nor |passage= are given. Can be a comma-separated list of params; if so, the first such param with a specified value becomes the value of the text/passage param. Use |textparam=- to suppress auto-propagation of |text= and |passage=.
3. |pageparam=: Name of page param to use if |page= isn't given. Can be a comma-separated list of params; if so, the first such param with a specified value becomes the value of the page param. Use |pageparam=- to suppress auto-propagation of |page= and |pages=.
4. |propagateparams=: Comma-separated list of any additional params to propagate to the quote template, so you don't have to propagate them one-by-one.
5. |allowparams=: Comma-separated list of parameter to allow, in addition to the ones mentioned above (i.e. |text=, |passage=, |page=, |pages=, |footer= and |brackets= are automatically allowed, as are the parameters given in |textparam=, |pageparam= and |propagateparams=). This allows for parameter checking; you'll get an error if unrecognized parameters are specified. If the value is *, parameter checking is disabled.

This should make it easier for you to write new quotation templates with less boilerplate, and minimize the likelihood of forgetting some boilerplate. I am going to create a similar interface to make it easier to generate quotation template documentation. Benwing2 (talk) 22:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I’ll check it out! By the way, could you check that the module is using “https” (for example, for links to WorldCat) where available? Thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 04:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw See {{quote-meta/paramdoc}} and example usage in Template:RQ:Pope Essay on Man/documentation. This currently supports the following replaceable params:

• <<page>> Text for the |page=/|pages= params.
• <<page:PARAM>> Text for the |page=/|pages= params where |PARAM= is an additional synonym.
• <<chapter>> Text for the |chapter= param when a chapter name should be provided.
• <<chapter:PARAM>> Text for the |chapter= param when a chapter name should be provided, where |PARAM= is an additional synonym.
• <<roman_chapter>> Text for the |chapter= param when an uppercase Roman numeral chapter number should be provided.
• <<roman_chapter:PARAM>> Text for the |chapter= param when an uppercase Roman numeral chapter number should be provided, where |PARAM= is an additional synonym.
• <<arabic_chapter>> Text for the |chapter= param when an Arabic numeral chapter number should be provided.
• <<arabic_chapter:PARAM>> Text for the |chapter= param when an Arabic numeral chapter number should be provided, where |PARAM= is an additional synonym.
• <<passage>> Text for the |text=/|passage= params.
• <<passage:PARAM>> Text for the |text=/|passage= params where |PARAM= is an additional synonym.
• <<trailing_params>> Text for additional params to mention at the end (currently |footer= and |brackets=).

It's pretty easy to add more replaceable params; you just need to let me know what the text should be. I'm also not sure that |page_nolink= is useful, and I'm aware that some templates have variant text of various sorts when describing the |page=/|pages= params; I'm not sure the best way to handle this. Benwing2 (talk) 00:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Also note that tables may not be supported inside of template params; if you run into issues like this, move the table outside the call to {{quote-meta/paramdoc}}. Benwing2 (talk) 00:28, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

OK, will check it out. Thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 04:33, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hope you will mention these on the documentation subpage too. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I think an edit you made to this module means that |author= no longer permits the wikilinking of authors in the form ], which is sometimes needed: see this edit to {{RQ:Sylvester Du Bartas}}. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I made it so that author= is automatically copied to authorlink= if authorlink= isn't explicitly given. Either you can add authorlink= explicitly, or I can change the code to not auto-populate authorlink=. Benwing2 (talk) 03:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I think it might be better not to auto-populate that parameter because there are a number of cases where parser functions are used with that parameter as different parts of a work have different authors, and it is more troublesome to have to repeat that coding with |authorlink=. Alternatively, I wonder if there is a way to auto-populate if that parameter contains a bare author name and nothing else? — SGconlaw (talk) 04:42, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I fixed the auto-population so it doesn't do it if there are links or HTML in the |author= param. Benwing2 (talk) 05:13, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: great! Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi, @Benwing2, page numbers specified using |page2= and |pages2= are appearing twice, once incorrectly as part of the original version of the work (which should only display page numbers specified using |page= and |pages=), and again correctly as part of the new version of the work: see {{RQ:Milton Collected Works}}. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I think the issue here is that you are propagating |page= into |page2= and |pages= into |pages2=, while the module itself auto-propagates |page= and |pages= into the same-named underlying params. I added support for |pageparam=- to turn off auto-propagation of |page= and |pages= (and similarly |textparam=- to turn off auto-propagation of |text= and |passage=). With this added, the template seems to work properly. Benwing2 (talk) 03:40, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: ah, I see. Thanks for the fix. It’s actually not uncommon to propagate |page= to |page2= in cases where the first edition of a work is not available online, and a modern reprint or republication is used in its place. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:53, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw If it's common enough, I can turn off auto-propagation of |page= and |pages=; but then if you want it propagated, you have to specify this explicitly using |pageparam= or |propagateparams=, or directly propagating the params yourself. Benwing2 (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I think it’s common enough for this to be turned off by default. The situations where separate page numbers are provided for the older and newer versions of the work are very uncommon, because usually a new version is only used when no old version is accessible online. How would the direct propagation need to be done, and can this all be documented somewhere? (Also, is |textparam=- needed? There is only one passage quoted in each template.) — SGconlaw (talk) 05:00, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw What I mean by direct propagation is writing something like this:

{{#invoke:quote|call_quote_template
|...
|page={{{3|{{{page|}}}}}}
|pages={{{pages|}}}
|...
}}

You can also get the same effect like this:

{{#invoke:quote|call_quote_template
|...
|pageparam=3,page
|pages={{{pages|}}}
|...
}}

or like this:

{{#invoke:quote|call_quote_template
|...
|pageparam=3,page
|propagateparams=pages
|...
}}

Benwing2 (talk) 05:14, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: OK, I might take a while to get to grips with this. Just to check, using |pageparam= doesn’t automatically generate |pages=? If not, I think I’ve used it wrongly in some templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:26, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw It doesn't currently propagate |pages= but I'll make it do so if that helps you. What I can do is make |pageparam=, if used, propagate |page= and |pages=, and in addition convert whichever param or params are specified into |page=. That way, if you specify |pageparam=3, for example, it's equivalent to specifying

|page={{{3|{{{page|}}}}}}
|pages={{{pages|}}}

but if you don't specify |pageparam=, then neither |page= nor |pages= is auto-propagated. Does that make sense to you? BTW I added documentation on {{#invoke:quote|call_quote_template}} to Module:quote/documentation. Benwing2 (talk) 05:30, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: yes, thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 10:06, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Should be implemented. Benwing2 (talk) 14:03, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I've recently been using this, but using published=2017 instead of year_published=2017, and ISBN=2389723984 instead of isbn=23482834. So on those entries the information doesn't show up. It's too boring to find all such instances, so can someone add the above variations to the magic code isntead? Br00pVain (talk) 09:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Also, even year published=2008 (without the underscore) doesn't show anything - that should be added too Br00pVain (talk) 10:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Br00pVain: seriously, how about just using the correct parameter names the first time around, instead of creating clean-up work for others? If you make an edit and realize that something isn’t showing up, then figure out why and fix it. Making hundreds of wrong edits at once and then realizing there’s a mistake is just plain annoying for everyone else. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:05, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: perhaps do a bot run? — SGconlaw (talk) 11:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw, Br00pVain I added temporary tracking code to add pages using |published= to the category Category:Wonderfool silly mistakes/quote-book. Over the next few days, pages using |published= should appear in this category; please fix them up yourself. After awhile, I'll undo any changes made by Wonderfool for any pages remaining in the category. Benwing2 (talk) 04:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2, Sgconlaw: could |year published= without the underscore be made working? I find that a valid point from WF. —Svārtava 10:42, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

I really wish I could edit this template. Br00pVain (talk) 10:43, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I guess it should be OK to add |ISBN=, |ISSN=, and |year published= as synonyms of |isbn=, |issn=, and |year_published=. Not sure if there is a technical limitation for |year published= (are parameter names with spaces permitted?). — SGconlaw (talk) 13:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

No you can't put spaces in template parameters. DTLHS (talk) 19:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

How much chaos would it cause to do actual parameter checking with module errors? DTLHS (talk) 19:18, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. — Sgconlaw (talk) 11:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

• Another common mistake, not necessarily exclusively made by me, is putting yearpublished= and p= instead of page= They could easily be added as alternative parameters too FTW Br00pVain (talk) 18:55, 21 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 Can we add this to complete the cross product? We have year, date and year_published. It just silently failed for me in Aufblaser. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 15:47, 10 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Would it be possible to make this accept eight-digit ISSNs with no hyphen by just adding it automatically? 70.172.194.25 01:36, 14 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

My edit here- diff- was reverted. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

If the parameters exist I don't see why you shouldn't use them. DTLHS (talk) 03:59, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

For consistency across entries, for one thing. Also, why is there a need to use the “last name, first name” format in quotations in entries when they are arranged chronologically and not alphabetically by last name? — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:15, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: If they are not supposed to be used (for consistency across entries) why do the parameters exist/are not deprecated? J3133 (talk) 07:45, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@J3133: we could deprecate them. This would probably need to be discussed at the Beer Parlour. They were in the original version of the template, so I didn't remove them at the time the template was overhauled. — Sgconlaw (talk) 07:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Could you not keep the parameters but make the output look like Firstname LastName? – Jberkel 16:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I believe that would be a simple change to the code at Module:quote#L-245 (and the same code handling 2ndlast). 70.172.194.25 16:19, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

No objection to that, but is there any particular benefit in splitting names into "last name" and "first name" anyway? Note that this assumes that people have a surname to begin with; this is not the case in many cultures. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

One (small) benefit seems to be that you can copy-paste citations from Wikipedia. – Jberkel 11:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Maybe it would be helpful to have an additional |subtitle= parameter: right know I often add the subtitle to |title=, using {{...}}. This is something that the template could format automatically. Thoughts? Jberkel 11:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

The TemplateInfo for the "pages" parameter specifies "Number", but this means it cannot accept values such as "1–2" or "xxxvi". I suggest it might be better as "String". Inductiveload (talk) 12:57, 9 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Currently, there's no way to provide archiveurls, archivedates, or accessdates for section and chapter URLs, only for whole-book URLs. This is a problem for certain works of literature, such as the two which I added quotes from in this diff (a novel as of yet published only online and unavailable in print) and this diff (a webcomic), where the whole-book URL, if any, merely leads to a directory page with links to the individual chapters/sections, and the chapter/section URL (for which, as of yet, this template cannot provide archive/access parameters) is required to actually see the text being quoted. The addition of |sectionarchiveurl=, |sectionarchivedate=, |sectionaccessdate=, |chapterarchiveurl=, |chapterarchivedate=, and |chapteraccessdate= parameters would be massively helpful here. Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty ⚧️ Averted crashes} 15:20, 22 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Whoop whoop pull up: I can't see why it would be necessary to provide archive URLs for both the work as a whole, and a part of the work such as a chapter or section. I suggest just indicating the archive URL of the specific webpage quoted from, otherwise the quotation might look quite long. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Ioaxxere: thanks for the edit which makes it unnecessary to specify |archivedate= if the archive URL is from the Internet Archive. Can I suggest that in those situations the template need not put the entry into “Category:Quotations using archiveurl without archivedate”? I think the category should be retained in case other archive websites are used. Also, would it be possible to update {{cite-meta}} so that it works the same way to Module:quote? However, it hasn’t been “Lua-ified” yet. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:44, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I didn't know about that category⁠—looks to be full of my entries :)

I think that should be fixed now, and I already see entries starting to drop out of the category. As for {{cite-meta}}, I can't update that until I get the Template Editor rights. Ioaxxere (talk) 23:08, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ioaxxere: thanks! Regarding {{cite-meta}}, would it be possible for you to work on an update in a sandbox, for example, a subpage of your user page? — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:49, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

OK, I think I've got the update set up but it would be convenient to be able to preview it on a few real entries to make sure nothing has gone wrong. I'll see if I can get the permissions. Ioaxxere (talk) 17:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ioaxxere: OK, good luck! — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:10, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw done. Is there another hidden category filling up with entries now? (edit: there was) Ioaxxere (talk) 19:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

The ':' character is no longer interpreted within the template. See for instance Citations:galéjer. - Olybrius (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Olybrius: yes, you can’t mark up the quoted text in this way. Use obliques or slashes (“/“) to separate the lines. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:04, 16 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

I still have a major problem with the way this template formats chapters. Currently, the template produces something like this:

• year, Author Name, "Chapter 5", in Book Title, Publishing House, p. 1:

This is crazy, and I don't think there is any standard formatting authority which does things this way (I checked APA, MLA, Chicago and a few others). It seems to have come about through a confusion between authored books and edited books (where, indeed, the title of an individual essay would normally be given before the main book title). But with a standard authored book where all chapters are by the same writer, the template should look like this:

• year, Author Name, Book Title, Publishing House, Chapter 5, p. 1:

If there is no way to force the position of the chapter data, I would suggest we have separate templates for authored books v. edited books. Ƿidsiþ 11:03, 16 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

I think your suggestion adds unnecessary complexity to the template, but raise it at the Beer Parlour for further discussion if you wish. However, my experience is that formatting changes to the quotation and reference templates seldom gain enough consensus. Seems that most editors aren’t interested enough in this sort of issue. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:00, 16 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Hi, everyone. I've never been quite sure how to treat these things, so I'm asking.
For the sake of argument, let's suppose there are various 15^th-century short texts, which are otherwise unpublished, collected in a 2023 anthology—titled Anthology—curated by John Smith. How do you use the template to quote one of the 15^th-century texts?
I've been doing the following:
|year=15th century
|author=
|title=
|year_published=2023
|other=collected in Anthology by John Smith
Is there a better way to indicate this kind of thing? Could the template use some way to better handle this (like some anthology-specific parameters), or is |other= enough already?
Thanks in advance for your attention. —— GianWiki (talk) 08:59, 17 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@GianWiki: I would do something similar, but use the second set of parameters provided by {{quote-book}} like this: {{quote-book|en|author=|title=|year=15th century|newversion=republished in|editor2=John Smith|title2=Anthology|location2=|publisher2=|year2=}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:35, 17 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Thank you very much for the suggestion. I never thought of that. — GianWiki (talk) 17:45, 17 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@GianWiki: you're most welcome. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:47, 17 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: this parameter seems to have stopped working: see {{RQ:Hardy Dynasts}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 (pinging per your edit summary "total rewrite of date formatting functionality"): |date=1 April 2023 is displaying as 2023 April (without the day) in the last quote on breast boobily. Ioaxxere (talk) 13:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ioaxxere Thanks. It is trying to figure out whether to display the day or not and seems to be messing up. Benwing2 (talk) 14:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 The superscript links on the Twitter quotes at scrunkly are targeting the original URL rather than the archive URL. Ioaxxere (talk) 17:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: I've just noticed that |trans-title= doesn't seem to be working—see {{RQ:Boyle Seraphic Love}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:45, 24 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I looked into this and the issue is a bit complicated. The code doesn't process <...> annotations if there's already HTML in the title (because it's difficult to separate out the <...> annotations from the HTML, which also use <...>). The HTML is being added by the use of {{nb...}}. The processing of trans-title happens after the check for HTML so it doesn't get run. I can fix the handling of trans-title or you can avoid {{nb...}} or add the trans-title annotation yourself in the title. Benwing2 (talk) 19:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: well, if you can find the time it would be good to fix the handling of |trans-title=. I don't think it used to behave that way. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: just a reminder about this when you have time. I encountered the issue again. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: any chance you can look into this? — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Apologies, I'll try to find time in the next few days, after I finish the Icelandic noun declension deployment (which is happening today and following). Please remind me in a few days if I don't get to it. Benwing2 (talk) 23:34, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: thanks! It happened to me again, so I was reminded of the issue. — Sgconlaw (talk) 23:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Your example with {{RQ:Boyle Seraphic Love}} appears to work, although I don't recall fixing anything. Is this still broken and if so can you give me an example of it? Benwing2 (talk) 05:40, 4 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

• {{quote-book|ja|author=ja:尾田栄一郎}} → Jpan, ja

  (Can we date this quote?), 尾田栄一郎, (Please provide the book title or journal name):

• {{quote-book|ja|author=w:ja:尾田栄一郎}} → Hani, und

  (Can we date this quote?), 尾田栄一郎, (Please provide the book title or journal name):

@Benwing2 —Fish bowl (talk) 23:35, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Fish bowl Sorry, I missed this. Try using the lw: prefix; the w: prefix doesn't do script detection because Wikipedia codes may not be valid for Wiktionary. See Template:quote-book/documentation#Parameters. Possibly I should make this smarter so that it knows which language codes are the same in Wikipedia and Wiktionary and does automatic script detection for those. Benwing2 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey @JeffDoozan, I wanted to make a comment here about this diff on Fengjie. This kind of diff happens from time to time, and I usually ignore it because there's basically no difference (in my mind). Hence I see no need for a revert, and I just want to comment on my feelings about the edit.
I will say that I personally believe that "brackets=on" was seemingly correctly used (at least for the citation from "Agrarian Policy of the Chinese Communist Party, 1921-1959", and possibly for the citation from "Lutherans On The Yangtze"). I bring it up here because my consistent behavior has been to put brackets around citations when the citation includes a "related term" rather than the entry term. That's because I see the following wording on Template:quote-book: "Use "on" to surround a quotation with brackets. This indicates that the quotation contains a mere mention of a term or does not provide an actual instance of a term but provides information about related terms." Now, you may say to yourself: "Oh, Fengchieh, Fengjie and Fengkieh are not related terms- they are the exact same term! Hence no brackets are needed, and in fact there should not be brackets!" Or you may even say: "Brackets are not mandatory, and are confusing, so who cares?" But I just feel that any deviation from the spelling of the entry's title which is not purely grammatical (plurals, etc) ultimately warrants the use of "brackets=on". Neither of the above-mentioned citations should really be on this entry- they should each be on their own alternative form entries or the Citations page thereof. And I do see it as optional, as Template:quote-book says about "brackets=on"- "Status optional". If I'm not following the correct policy let me know, but I feel that my including the brackets and your removing the brackets was all 100% okay. There is no question that there's a close kinship between Fengchieh, Feng-chieh, Fêng-chieh, Fengjie, Fengkieh, Fongjie (Tongyong Pinyin) and other variants (they are likely out there!), and hence it makes sense that if I only have one citation for a particular one of these variants, I'd want to put it out there for people to see it on one of the more common forms, maybe on the Citations page. Maybe it will develop into an entry on its own. But there is no need to rush into creating a bunch of alternative form entries of unclear validity vis-a-vis WT:ATTEST unless you're about to really "get into" some section of vocabulary. (As for the "Lutherans On The Yangtze" citation which includes the entry term and a variant of the entry term, I never know quite how to handle those.) --Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:39, 23 January 2024 (UTC) (Modified) --Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:39, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Geographyinitiative:, thank you for the excellent explanation! My original motivation for editing the page was to replace the typo "{" with ","framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":,"classes":}'>Reply

@Benwing2:

{{quote-book|en|start_month=January|start_year=2024|month=December|year=2024}} displays “2024 January – 2024 December” instead of “2024 January–December”. I was unable to find out the reason. J3133 (talk) 06:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

@J3133 Let me take a look. I notice that using |start_date= and |date= works for some reason, e.g. {{quote-book|en|start_date=2022-01|date=2022-02}}. Benwing2 (talk) 00:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 00:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Should this parameter not be used? J3133 (talk) 08:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

It was making the publication date appear in an odd year-month-day format in the middle of the citation. I didn’t even know this parameter had been added to the module. If it’s only used in the middle of the citation, perhaps it should be changed to use a day-month-year format. — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: Will you change this? J3133 (talk) 15:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

the literature which I deal with is most often online and is also archived in Wikisource. however, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to link to it using the quotation templates—{{quote-web}}, {{quote-journal}}, {{quote-book}}. it would be very helpful if there was a way to maybe add a parametre or find another way.

that would also help us because we are trying to access toki pona as an accepted language in Wiktionary. thank you very much. Juwan (talk) 13:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

it seems that all the quotation templates don't seem to work under the Appendix namepage? or that is what it seems under words under the toki pona appendix, such as monsuta. Juwan (talk) 14:01, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Suppose that I'm not the one, who translated the actual quotation text into English. An example from światło:

The English translation in the quotation above was taken from here (naturally, I verified that the Belarusian text correctly matches the English translation). What's the best practice in such cases? I'm not a native English speaker myself, so digging into the pool of already existing translations done by professional translators seems to be a good recipe to obtain high quality grammatically correct English translations. --Ssvb (talk) 22:26, 14 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ssvb: I would suggest using the "second" set of parameters like this:

• Wikitext: {{quote-book|be|author=w:Thomas à Kempis|translator=]|title=] <t:Of the Imitation of Christ>|original=s:la:De imitatione Christi|location=Lwoŭ—Wilnia|year=1934|origyear=1427|page=262|pageurl=https://be.wikisource.orghttps://dictious.com/en/Старонка:Śledam_za_Chrystusam_(1934).pdf/266|newversion=English translation from|title2=]|location2=London|publisher2=James Finch & Co.|year2=1901|page2=275|pageurl2=https://en.wikisource.orghttps://dictious.com/en/Page%3AImitation-of-christ-1901.djvu/275|text=Zamkniony ŭ wiaźnicy cieła majho, pryznajusia, što dźwie rečy patrebnyja mnie: strawa i '''światło'''.|t=Whilst I am detained in the prison of this body, I acknowledge myself to stand in need of two things, namely, food and '''light'''.}}
• Result:
  • 1934 , Thomas à Kempis, translated by Dr. Stanisłaŭ Hrynkiewič, Śledam za Chrystusam , Lwoŭ—Wilnia, translation of De imitatione Christi, page 262; English translation from Of the Imitation of Christ, London: James Finch & Co., 1901, page 275:

    Zamkniony ŭ wiaźnicy cieła majho, pryznajusia, što dźwie rečy patrebnyja mnie: strawa i światło.

    Whilst I am detained in the prison of this body, I acknowledge myself to stand in need of two things, namely, food and light.

— Sgconlaw (talk) 22:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ioaxxere, Benwing2: this module had been updated by Ioaxxere so it is not necessary to use {{archivedate}} |url= if |archiveurl= contains an Internet Archive Wayback Machine URL, but this doesn't seem to be working for {{quote-journal}}—see the noun section of transgender, where the 2004 quotation under sense 2 is throwing a Lua error. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw This seems to be a different error. The change by @Ioaxxere was for |archivedate= vs. |archiveurl=, but this is for |archiveurl= vs. |url=. What should the behavior be? Benwing2 (talk) 21:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: ah, sorry. I meant |url=. It shouldn't be necessary to use both that parameter and |archiveurl= if the latter contains an IA Wayback Machine URL—at least that's how it works for {{quote-book}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing: oh, I know what the problem is. The IA link is not to the Wayback Machine after all, which has URLs in the format https://web.archive.org/web/20240313154607/https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-t, but it is to the text section which has URLs in the format https://archive.org/details/transgender-warriors-making-history-from-joan-of-arc-to-dennis-rodman-feinberg-leslie-1949/Lavender_and_Red/page/n8/mode/1up. However, because of this, there isn't any separate value which can be given to |url=. I suppose that in a case like this I should just specify the IA URL under |url=. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw OK sounds good, glad it's straightened out. Benwing2 (talk) 23:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: when |author= is used, is there a way to prevent the module from trying to link to a Wikipedia article about an author when none exists? — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:01, 16 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: just flagging this up as an issue again—hope you can look into it when you are free. See, for example, what happens with the entry {{RQ:Guardian 1713}} at "Wiktionary:Quotations/Templates/English S#Steele, Richard". — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:09, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Sorry I didn't realize this is still an issue; sometimes it's not clear to me what is or isn't fixed. I will take a look shortly. Benwing2 (talk) 19:12, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw It looks like this is happening in call_quote_template() because that function automatically copies |author= to |authorlink= in most circumstances. I fixed it so that it won't do this if an embedded HTML-encoded left bracket ([) is present, but in general you can disable this by adding a blank param |authorlink= to the call to call_quote_template(). Benwing2 (talk) 21:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: thanks. So, just to clarify, if there is no need to mark up the author's name in any way, but just to stop the template from incorrectly linking to a non-existent Wikipedia article, I should type the following? (I am thinking it might be better to put a comment, otherwise another editor might come along and remove the |authorlink= parameter.)

|author = Joe Bloggs

|authorlink =<!--No Wikipedia article-->

Alternatively, would it be a good idea to allow editors to type |authorlink=- to suppress the attempted linking? — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw I agree and I have added that functionality. Benwing2 (talk) 21:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: great! Thanks for working on this. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

After @Benwing allowed opting out of this behavior, this was fully solved by @Ioaxxere, who simply made links opt-in. My first reaction was that this was a regression since this removes a feature, requiring more work from editors, but after consideration, it is not; link targets have to be specified, since a name is (or can always become) ambiguous. With the previous behavior, quoting w:Abraham Lincoln (captain) would have resulted in a link to the article about his namesake grandson, which is not something editors can be expected to expect. Thank you for reporting, Sgconlaw, and for solving, Ioaxxere. It remains possible for such misleading links to appear, but this becomes orders of magnitude less likely. What could still happen non-rarely is some links becoming links to disambiguation pages, a low risk which would be unrealistic to avoid.

However, the documentation now needs to be fixed to match the new behavior, and Benwing's dead code should be removed. And of course, this behavior change now means lots of entries which used to rely on the previous behavior to link will now need an edit to restore the majority of automatically created links which were desirable. --Chealer (talk) 04:49, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Over at Module:User:JeffDoozan/quote, I have a fork of this module where I've added support for the citation formatting used by the cite- templates. I've tested the patched module with all of the existing quote- calls to verify that the output of is identical to this module and I've reviewed the differences between output of the original cite- templates and that produced by the new module (see User:JeffDoozan/cite-book/tests, User:JeffDoozan/cite-web/tests, User:JeffDoozan/cite-journal/tests, User:JeffDoozan/cite-av/tests, User:JeffDoozan/cite-song/tests and User:JeffDoozan/cite-newsgroup/tests for a sample of each). I'd like to merge those changes into this module and switch the existing cite- templates to use this module. I've tried to make the changes as clean as possible by adding export.cite_t() as the primary interface for cite- templates and adding a format_as_cite flag to export.source() and postauthor(), but I'd appreciate any comments on the quality of the new code or differences in the old/new cite template outputs. @Benwing2 @Sgconlaw JeffDoozan (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JeffDoozan I took a look at your code, and as far as I can tell the approach is correct. The use of the format_as_cite flag rather than just forking the whole thing is definitely the right approach; otherwise we'd have to maintain two versions, which would inevitably get out of sync. You should test the code to make sure it still generates quotations correctly; I have a whole bunch of calls to {{quote-*}} in User:Benwing2/test-quote that exercise different parts of the module, which might help. If everything checks out, I would support merging these changes into the production module (BTW the production module includes some recent optimizations by User:Theknightwho). Benwing2 (talk) 03:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Oh one thing I forgot ... what about invalid parameters? I'm sure there are a zillion of them collectively for all the cite templates, unless you've somehow cleaned them all up. Benwing2 (talk) 03:29, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the tests, looks like everything matches: User:JeffDoozan/test-quote. I've cleaned up many of the invalid parameters, and the rest are handled in export.cite_t() by wrapping everything with pcall() and then falling back to the old template and adding a maintenance category in case of errors. Once this is in production and the categories fill up, I'll clean up the remaining invalid parameters and remove the pcall JeffDoozan (talk) 13:57, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Hi @JeffDoozan, the switching-over of the cite templates to use Module:quote has inadvertently created line-break issues—see footnotes 4 and 5 in the "References" section of milliner. Seems like there's a redundant carriage return after the reference. (I recall that this happens with the quote templates too, but with them perhaps this behaviour is correct.) — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Thanks, I reverted the changes to {{cite-web}} while I track down the errant carriage return (it's the only widely-used template that I've converted so far). JeffDoozan (talk) 19:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

 fixed it was an HTML issue, using a div tag instead of a span. JeffDoozan (talk) 19:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JeffDoozan: excellent! Thanks. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:13, 12 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JeffDoozan I noticed that the display of the external link in {{R:GDoS}} (which uses {{cite-web}}) recently changed and I think it might be related to your recent changes in the module (I might be wrong). I've now edited the reference template to match the earlier format but other templates may also be affected. Einstein2 (talk) 23:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Einstein2: Thanks for mentioning this. Many of the templates got converted automatically if they contained PAGENAME or "/page/" in the url. I'll do another pass to convert urls that contain variables. JeffDoozan (talk) 23:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

There is no guidance for quoting from dramatic works, which are usually divided into Acts and Scenes. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:54, 12 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@EncycloPetey: what sort of guidance do you feel is needed? — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Guidance in how to cite using acts and scenes, as I stated above. I have zero idea which parameters to use. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

For instance:

• 1926, George Kelly, “Act I”, in Craig's Wife, page 5:

  Passmore. Capital P-a-double s-m-o-r-e.

is what happens if I place the Act I information into the chapter parameter. The result puts "Act I" inside quotes, which is incorrect. How do I indicate the Act and Scene in which a quote appears? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Never mind. I finally found the information I needed. It was not easy to find. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, @JeffDoozan, in the following use of {{cite-journal}}, I've noticed that the colon after the page numbers which introduces the quoted text is missing:

• Joseph Goebbels (1945 February 25) “Das Jahr 2000 ”, in , transl., Das Reich‎ (in German), Berlin: Deutscher Verlag, →ISSN, →OCLC, archived from the original on 2024-01-06, pages 1–2:

  (please add the primary text of this quotation)

  If the German people lay down their weapons, the Soviets, according to the agreement between Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin, would occupy all of East and Southeast Europe along with the greater part of the Reich. An iron curtain would fall over this enormous territory controlled by the Soviet Union, behind which nations would be slaughtered.

Also, dates like "May 2024" and "23 May 2024" are still being displayed in a reverse-fashion as "2024 May" and "2024 May 23" which I think is inappropriate for references. I think these should be changed back to the original format. Thanks. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JeffDoozan: list of things that need to be fixed for compatibility with {{cite}} templates:

• Dates like "May 2024" and "23 May 2024" are being displayed in a reverse-fashion as "2024 May" and "2024 May 23" which is inappropriate for references.
• The colon after the page numbers which introduces the quoted text is missing: see above.
• Where a passage of text is quoted, there shouldn't be a full stop appearing before the colon; for example, Walter S Avis , editors (1967), “Canuck, n.”, in A Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles: Dictionary of Canadian English, 1967: W J Gage, →OCLC, page 124, column 2: “a native or citizen of Canada”

Any chance you can look into this soon? Thanks. — Sgconlaw (talk) 02:22, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: Thanks for the ping. I haven't forgotten about this and it's at the very top of my wiki to-do list, but I've been pretty busy with offline stuff lately. When I have the time to sit down and focus, it should be pretty easy to fix (well, the colon and full stop - the date formatting might be trickier if there's not an existing option in the date module) JeffDoozan (talk) 13:40, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@JeffDoozan: no worries—thanks very much for maintaining this module. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2: The quotation category (Category:LANG terms with quotations) should not be added to references (using “cite-” templates), which is the case currently if a passage is included. I have unsuccessfully tried to remove it in three edits. J3133 (talk) 16:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@J3133 OK, I'll take a look. Benwing2 (talk) 18:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2, JeffDoozan: yes, I’ve just noticed that adding references to entries using the {{cite}} templates, which now work off the Module:quote backend, adds the entries to “Category:Undetermined terms with quotations” when no language is specified for the references (which would usually be the case). I’m not sure this is useful. — Sgconlaw (talk) 02:25, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@J3133 I've removed the per-language categorization for citations. JeffDoozan (talk) 15:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 J3133 (talk) 16:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Fenakhay I think this edit introduced the bug. Could you please take a look at it? Einstein2 (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Fixed: Wiktionary:Grease pit/2024/July#Broken PMID links. Einstein2 (talk) 19:31, 28 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Fenakhay Looks like you ran the code through some sort of automated formatter. In the future can you not do this until/unless you get consensus? I don't agree with many of the changes, which introduced a ton of unnecessary vertical space. Benwing2 (talk) 03:32, 9 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

If both |entry= and |editor= are given, the citation is displayed as ⟨“entry”, in edited by John Doe⟩, which seems like wrong rendering. With |chapter=, it is displayed as ⟨“chapter”, in John Doe, editor⟩. Einstein2 (talk) 19:09, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Editors: awkward phrasing

@Benwing2: see the following quotation from free rein—the module produces awkward phrasing when multiple editors are specified. Can this be fixed? It's probably best to just add ", editors" at the end of the list.

• 1913, John B. O’Connor, “Ignatius of Constantinople, Saint”, in Charles G Herbermann, Edward A Pace, Condé B Pallen, Thomas J Shahan, John J Wynne, editors, The Catholic Encyclopedia: An International Work of Reference on the Constitution, Doctrine, Discipline, and History of the Catholic Church  Fifteen Volumes and Index Special Edition under the Auspices of the Knights of Columbus Catholic Truth Committee">…], special edition, volume VII, New York, N.Y.: The Encyclopedia Press, →OCLC, page 647:

  At the suggestion of the latter , Michael sought the assistance of Ignatius in an effort to force Theodora to enter a convent, in the hope of securing for himself an undivided authority and a free rein for his profligacy. The patriarch indignantly refused to be a party to such an outrage. Theodora, however, realizing the determination of her son to possess at any cost an undivided rule, voluntarily abdicated.

— Sgconlaw (talk) 21:47, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw: I also noticed this issue, but it only occurs when |entry= is used instead of |chapter=. J3133 (talk) 18:54, 22 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Fixed (and merged discussions). J3133 (talk) 19:22, 22 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia's main citation template features a parameter to let the reader know if a reference work is freely accessible or requires a subscription (w:Template:Citation#csdoc access level). Some reference templates in Wiktionary (i.e. {{R:OED Online}}) have a small red lock icon, although applied in a kind of sloppy and messy way: just slapping an image in it. Could a new parameter be added to this module so that access information to a work is easier to add to templates, to help the editor and the reader? Hitsuji777 (talk) 19:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

When normalization uses non-Latin script (see {{RQ:cu:Mar}}), no italics should be used, maybe indent should be removed too. Sławobóg (talk) 13:47, 4 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

* {{quote-journal|zh|chapterurl=https://example.com|title=zh:低頭族}}

• (Can we date this quote?), “低頭族 ”, in (Please provide the book title or journal name):

(at Chinese 手機仔 / 手机仔)

—Fish bowl (talk) 07:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)Reply

I would like a way to translate the title of the original work. Emanuele6 (talk) 03:27, 12 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2, Surjection, Theknightwho: I've noticed an issue with the |footer= parameter when working on {{RQ:Wordsworth River Duddon}}. The quotation template displays a custom footer if |chapter=Lakes is specified. However, if an editor also gives |footer= a value (for example, to add an additional comment), this overrides the custom footer. I don't think this is desirable behaviour; the module should allow for both custom footers which are programmed into the template as well as footers which may be specified by editors. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:03, 13 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Sgconlaw Let me look into this. The closest equivalent I can think of in other modules is the footnote support in inflection modules, and that support allows for multiple footnotes from different sources without them overriding each other, but in this case the footer is treated as a single parameter, and user-specified parameter values override values specified by a quotation template. I can probably change it so that it combines the footers; are there any other parameters with similar behavior that you can think of? Benwing2 (talk) 23:10, 13 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

For example, Portuguese uma:

2. feminine of um
   • 2000, J. K. Rowling, translated by Lia Wyler, Harry Potter e a Câmara Secreta (Harry Potter; 2), Rio de Janeiro: Rocco, →ISBN, page 217:

     Quando tiver uma dúvida, vá à biblioteca.

     When you are in doubt, go to the library.

The translation doesn't use uma, so I would like to add a literal translation that uses it as:

{{RQ:mul:Rowling Harry Potter|pt-BR|2|page=217|text=Quando tiver '''uma''' dúvida, vá à biblioteca.|t=When you are in doubt, go to the library.|lit=When you may have '''a''' doubt, go to the library.}}

But that is not supported.

o/ Emanuele6 (talk) 11:53, 21 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

I find the format of quotes, "YYYY Month DD" (as in "2023 August 11") pretty strange. I very much appreciate that the year should be more prominent, and understand why it is first, but I have never seen that format. Moreover, I question whether boldface is warranted, given that coming at the very start already gives high prominence. We can rely on our judgment, but current style is very inconsistent with our French edition, which grants years a lot less importance (showing them last, small and at regular weight, as fr:film shows). French Wikipedia may not be exemplary, but on that, it is much closer to most citation styles.

I am not a native English speaker, but I have never seen the format "YYYY Month DD" elsewhere. I also can't find that format in most citation styles, nor in w:List of date formats by country, except for Kinyarwanda (where it is only one of 2 possible formats). Was there a reason to not just use ISO 8601?

This goes back to at least August 2023, when the time module was merged in this one. I suppose this behavior was inherited from time, but time's history was unfortunately lost. @Benwing: As the author of this merge, it would be appreciated if you could shed some light on where this came from. Chealer (talk) 05:53, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Chealer I think it is essential that we place the year first, given that the vast, vast majority of our cites only have a year and nothing else. There are few standard formats that present dates in this way. Here are three possibilities:

1. ISO format:
   2023-08-11
   • Too technical for presentation to dictionary readers. We are not space-constrained.
2. APA reference list format
   2023, August 11
   • Simply add a comma - low friction. From an unashamedly Americentric style guide, although it is used and accepted globally in academia.
3. Wiktionary-special style with added brackets:
   2023 (August 11)
   • I don't like how this subordinates the day and month even further. The bold/non-bold distinction is sufficient.

I am not totally convinced we need to change, but I can really only get behind option 2 if a change is felt to be needed. This, that and the other (talk) 11:34, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Chealer, This, that and the other: we need to distinguish between two cases, quotation templates and reference templates, which now both use this module. For quotation templates I think the current year-month-day format with the year in bold (and no comma) is helpful to readers as they can see at a glance the publication or writing dates of the quotations. However, now that reference templates also operate using this module—a more recent change—I think we should use a more common day-month-year format. — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:10, 29 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

@This, that and the other: I do not consider it essential to place the date first, although certainly desirable. Regarding your possibilities:

1. I do not consider numeric months as too technical at all. Virtually anyone who would read a dictionary and care about quotation dates will (instantly) know that August is the eighth month. However, nothing prevents offering a tooltip (similar to wikivoyage:Template:Time) in case a reader every thousand would not.
2. I (as a B. Sc. A. holder) am not familiar with that format and doubt a regional format confined to academia is a good idea, but I do find it less disturbing than the current format. It is also not listed anywhere in Wikipedia's above list, but at least it too solves the ambiguity.
3. I agree that the "date" is secondary/parenthetical, however adding 2 characters just to help our brain jump over some 10 characters is not a great deal if it requires us to reinvent the wheel again.

Chealer (talk) 01:51, 30 June 2025 (UTC)Reply