User talk:Fredrick Campbell

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Again, welcome! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:33, 16 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Thank you Fredrick Campbell (talk) 13:39, 17 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I’m not sure why you completely changed Malaysian Mandarin and Hokkien for this. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:37, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

My last edit replaced the original word without removing the additional word. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 05:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Just occurred to me that I completely changed Penang Hokkien's. This is because I don't think "面皮" actually has the meaning of dignity and is, in my experience, only ever described as "厚" to mean 'to have no shame'. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 06:17, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I think 面皮 is also used for "dignity". Penang Hokkien Dictionary: "Ka1liau1 lang2 boek1 kor3 ka3ki3-eh3 bin33phoay2" 到了人欲顧家己的面皮. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:10, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Actually, you are right. I have heard it used like that before here. I will replace it if you had not. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 23:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure "longkang" and 弄溝 are the same as 排水管? Penang Hokkien Dictionary defines the latter as "drain", not "drainage pipe". — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I may have misunderstood what 排水管 meant. Both are drain and I thought that drain and drainage pipe were the same thing when I made that edit. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 00:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I intend to add it into a list where the words mean drain. Any idea what word is more suitable? I couldn't locate the correct word because "水溝" and "溝渠" are the local (Penang) Mandarin versions of drain while they seem to be defined as ditch on this site. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 00:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

A 排水管 is a pipe with which water is drained out of a toilet, bathtub, etc., but a "longkang" (from a quick Google search) is a channel for rainwater. 水溝 or 溝渠 seem to be appropriate, but I'm not quite sure. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure about these characters and the pronunciation? Penang Hokkien Dictionary gives 聲說, which is maybe what you're looking for? I also don't know if it's actually the same as 聲音 in Mandarin. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:01, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Only certain of the pronunciation. I can remember my relatives saying "siaⁿ-sek". Maybe wrong characters, but they seem to make sense in my opinion. Only problem is that I can't be certain if that is the true etymology of the word. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 01:10, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I could also pay attention to those specific words when they are said and see if it is "sek" or "seh". I have managed to warp their pronunciations and no one seems to notice that I pronounce the word differently all the time. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 01:20, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

The problem is that some people have merged -k and -h. Not sure if your relatives have. It's more likely to be 聲說 since that's what's used in Mainland and Taiwanese Hokkien. The only thing that's iffy is that 說 as seh isn't typical of Zhangzhou dialects... Given these uncertainties, it may be safer to leave it out for now and/or check some other sources. @Freelance Intellectual, does this word appear in any of your Penang Hokkien dictionaries? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:28, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Alright. I will remove that one for now unless or until it is verified. As it happens, '聲' is used for both sound and voice while '聲色' is only ever used for voice. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 01:50, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: I can't find siaⁿ-sek or siaⁿ-seh in any of my Penang Hokkien sources, and I'm not familiar with the term myself. I agree that 說 seems implausible as an etymology for seh, unless it's cross-dialect loan. I would also add that Timothy Tye is not a particularly reliable source. Etymologically, 色 seems possible, as an extended sense by analogy with 面色 (but that's just conjecture). @Fredrick Campbell: if you're certain of the pronunciation but there are no attested uses in characters, perhaps a POJ entry would be more appropriate. Freelance Intellectual (talk) 10:34, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Freelance Intellectual: Noted. I am not going to be doing that today, however. Maybe another day. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 12:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung:@Freelance Intellectual:From my aunt's description, it seems that it was only used by my grandfather from 惠安 so, not really Penang's dialect of Hokkien. Since it has been over half a century, the phrase may or may not be no longer in use in 惠安. It seems that he used that phrase in place of 聲, so they may really be synonyms. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 03:45, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Okay, then it seems to be 聲說 then, but if it’s not commonly used in Penang, I would not add it in to the table. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Justinrleung: Agreed about not adding it into the table. The orthography is uncertain, but it is definitely pronounced siann-sek as my aunt and dad emphasized the k when I asked about the ending. Fredrick Campbell (talk) 05:53, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi, please note that the pronunciation module of 水 has been moved to 水/derived terms to avoid the Lua not enough memory error. I understand that this is not the best solution but until we have a better solution for the Lua memory issue, let's not move the module back to the main page. RcAlex36 (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

Noted - Fredrick Campbell (talk) 06:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)Reply