Talk:account

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

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The sense of “a business relationship involving the exchange of money and credit” has been questioned. (See Tea room/2021/January#The page account houses dark definitions, ....) I can’t say the sense does not exist or the definition is incorrect because I don’t understand it at all – unless bank account is meant, but that sense is already covered. So the best seems to be to bring it up here; if cites can be found attesting this sense, they can help to construct an understandable definition.  --Lambiam 17:31, 9 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Attesting quotations are definitely needed, but it seems to me that that sense is plausible. One might have a trading account with one’s stockbroker, whereby the stockbroker acts on one’s behalf to buy and sell securities for a fee, for example. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

cited Kiwima (talk) 00:08, 10 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Well, at least it is plausible now what was being meant. The suggestion of such a meaning is of course supported by the noun being used with “with”. Though this “with” may mean apud, bei, so we have to ask whether all these texts could also use “at” as easily.

• The first quote at first glance is quite convincing, as they expound the circumstances that “A media vehicle will not sell space directly to a client or to an agency with which it has not had prior dealings” – but this is a breviloquence for saying if the ad agency is not found in the accounting books already. One wouldn’t ever say this in reference to someone who does not keep books, e.g. “*I have to buy my nose candy through another dealer that has an account with the importer.”
• But in the second quote it is immediately clear that a user-profile is meant, at online payment services – as is strongly suggested by the word “creating”, which can be used for relationships in general, but the whole context makes clear it is a user profile (the sense we currently inaccurately define as “an authorization to use a service”). If a company has a user profile there are of course always “business relationships” if only in the legal sense but such a meaning must not be just a reflex.
• The same is to be said of the third quote: It is meant very technically, computing-related: the accounts are opened, and the next sentence is about “opening accounts with these companies their respective websites”. Conceiving this use of “accounts” as business relationships just “opened” at websites, all at once with all shipping companies, is too weird to be truly meant.

I think I will have to concur with @Lambiam that this meaning is not cited but disproven. If there were such a sense one would find more than such middling copyread books. Fay Freak (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

The "business relationship" definition might need some improved wording, but it seems to aim at something more significant that the record of transactions involving the parties in the business relationship. The purpose of the relationship is transactions, which are recorded. The account relationship may imply a certain level of trust, but there are plenty of COD accounts, for which the level of trust ("credit") extended is limited to the cost of a delivery stop, eg, what if the customer orders something, but doesn't have the money to pay at time of delivery?. A business relationship can involve more than the recorded transactions, eg, either customer or vendor may provide information to the other party that is not essential to any transaction, such as about competitors.

Which of our definitions is appropriate for the common collocations open/have/get/close an account . Obviously not all such accounts are bank accounts. All bank accounts seem to me to fit into the business relationship definition, so "bank account" seems like a subsense or an "especially".

The media on/in which the specifics of the transactions are recorded is immaterial in current usage.

Relatedly, "bank account", when substituted into the common collocation bank account, yields 'bank bank account', which is indicative to me of a lazy definition. DCDuring (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

RFV-resolved. After reading the comments, I believe that this definition and the "computing" definition are both trying to capture the same meaning, where this one is a bit too broad and the "computing" sense is too narrow. I have moved the citations to the computing sense, and reworded it to be a bit broader. Kiwima (talk) 01:46, 22 January 2021 (UTC)Reply