User talk:Babr/2024

For cat, would it be appropriate for me to add a translingual definition, "the word spelled C-A-T"? I assume that I'd be blocked for vandalism if I did. But that's exactly what you're doing. I don't understand this: aren't definitions supposed to be, well, definitions? kwami (talk) 00:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Nice strawman, but I'm just reverting you from mass deleting definitions against consensus. If you have a problem with those definitions then make a post in beer parlor, instead of editing thousands of edits against the communities wishes. — Sameer ^{﴾مشارکت‌ها・بحث﴿} 00:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

But they're not definitions! They're simply descriptions or Unicode names. A definition actually defines something. Usage, pronunciation, transliteration value, something. kwami (talk) 00:11, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Kwami, that's a point you should make in a BP discussion post to gain consensus from other editors. You've gotten in trouble before for this exact action, and should know better. I would be more forgiving if this was a first, but you have shown no regard for how many editors were upset by your last mass-deletion spree. — Sameer ^{﴾مشارکت‌ها・بحث﴿} 00:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I've started a BP discussion. If the consensus is that we should use fake definitions, I'll abide by it, even if it is embarrassing have people turn WK into a fake dictionary. kwami (talk) 00:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm glad that you will be discussing the topic :). JSYK the issue the whole time was just the lack of consensus, nothing against you. — Sameer ^{﴾مشارکت‌ها・بحث﴿} 00:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

It's just frustrating to have to go through a month, or months, of discussion to get permission to delete what would be considered vandalism if added to the draft of any print dictionary. kwami (talk) 00:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. 178.120.10.176 00:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Təbriklər! — BABR (talk) 08:19, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

!تبریک 178.120.50.179 03:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	I appreciate this image change! I'm proud her fat is now literally the dictionary definition of chonky. I got a laugh out of it, as did the rest of my family.

Panini! (talk) 15:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

haha, I'm glad you enjoyed it! — BABR (talk) 04:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Salaam, I'd like to ask about some Tajik terms such as Авесто that you said cannot be written as اوستا since they have different etymologies. But what is the etymology of the Tajik term? I assume both have same etymology since Tajik о is usually corresponds to Persian long ا/آ. Also the source that you listed at Вожаҷӯ list اوستا as the Persian spelling of Авесто. This also apply to Банглодеш, which Вожаҷӯ also list بنگلادش as the Persian spelling (see https://vazhaju.tj/search/Банглодеш).

Thank you. Ekirahardian (talk) 14:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ekirahardian Vozhaju is generally pretty accurate, but sometimes spuriously connects terms that are not related. A good way to know is the fact that the pronunciation of اوستا is only attested as /avasta/ in classical dictionary's. Additionally the spelling does not match regular spelling correspondences in Tajik at all. Tajik <е> comes from Majhool <ی> and majhool zer (i.e. zer before he, ayn, and hamza) if اوستا became Авесто (Avesto) that would not match the regular correspondence between Tajik and Classical Persian spelling.

Thank you for your help on Tajik entries though, I do appreciate it very much. I just would prefer that we list the Persian spelling when there is certainty that the spellings have the same etymology. — BABR・talk 18:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Your editing has no explanation 2600:8805:4322:4F00:8C01:55D9:C74D:7E06 12:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

hi @The Summum Bonum I left a generic welcome message on your talk page, please read the section about "entry layout" — BABR・talk 12:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

your reply is copy paste and doesn't answer or explains any of your actions 2600:8805:4322:4F00:FD79:6D0D:292E:D283 13:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

@The Summum Bonum Actually, it does answer your question. If you actually read our entry guidelines you would know that all of your edits did not meet Wiktionary's entry layout standards. To be frank, the fact that you even went out of your way to undo proper formatting in other entries multiple times is borderline vandalism and you're lucky you didn't get blocked by @Chuck Entz after the first 5 reverts. — BABR・talk 13:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

on the first edit you should have told me before copy paste your reply specify The Summum Bonum (talk) 13:34, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

so your also Bahr from Tajik , now I know why your editing on south East Asian matters where of the chart you name chuck but you speak Russian and Tajik also Turkish I presume The Summum Bonum (talk) 13:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully 🤞 I got this time right I was editing the topic instead of citations to the original author with the original template The Summum Bonum (talk) 16:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Your entry at kolorum still had a few formatting issues, but another user fixed it. A piece of advice, try to copy what other Tagalog editors do until you get the hang of it. Look at how kolorum looks now and try to format entries like that (the etymology does not need to be that long though). You'll get the hang of it with time, just keep practicing and keep looking at what other Tagalog editors do in their entries. — BABR・talk 00:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

FYI, I did not add that strikethrough. I believe Benwing added it when he considered closing it but later backtracked. Purplebackpack89 14:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

That is not how it works, this will not achieve what you are trying to do.

It will once you leave it be and let me remove Turkish from Module:letters/data in peace. – amateur (talk) 09:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

@Amateur55, I'd imagine that'd be difficult since that module is protected.

OTOH, I'd be happy to edit the module and add those letters for you, but you should discuss it with other Turkish editors first. — BABR・talk 09:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Guarani orthography on Wikt for glottal stop is mixed, but for Tahitian we use the 'okina, not an ASCII apostrophe. kwami (talk) 05:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami, feel free to change the Tahitian back. — BABR・talk 05:48, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

An admin admonished me that I shouldn't fix things per consensus without a discussion first, so I'm going to let that play out. kwami (talk) 05:53, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know how to tag someone in the edit summary (my previous username was "Berbuah salak"). Also, sorry if my additional comment were a bit aggressive. Salakku (talk) 11:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for creating that conjugation table. It's definitely an improvement over the old one! نعم البدل (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Babr. Regarding your earlier message, in order to create a table for Iranian dialects, I suggest referencing "Persian Dialects: As Spoken in Iran", which covers the dialects of Abadan, Bandar Abbas, Isfahan, Kashan, Hamadan, Kerman, Mashhad, Shiraz, and Yazd, mentioning relevant kinship terms for each. The only difficultly with referencing it is that terms are sometimes listed without transliteration or vocalisation. If you want to create a table for Tajiki as well, I suggest referencing the "Thematic Tajiki Dialect Dictionary", which includes both the standard Tajiki term and the equivalent used in the dialect of Khujand.

Also, as an side note that you may already be aware of, the automated transliteration of Iranian Persian, as well as the IPA transcription, appear to be slightly misfunctioning in certain instances. In particular, /ay/ seems to become /ey/ even when separated by the syllable boundary. For example, entering پَیَام (payâm) results in payām / peyâm (rather than payām／payâm). The same applies to all other examples, like عیال (ayâl), لیان (layân), and بیان (bayân). Meanwhile, The IPA transcription template works correctly only when syllables are manually separated. For example, {{fa-IPA|ir=bayān}} results in the following incorrect transliteration and transcription:

. To get the correct forms IPA transcription, one has to enter {{fa-IPA|ir=ba`yān}}:

The transliteration still remains incorrect in this case.Samiollah1357 (talk) 03:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC); edited 06:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@Samiollah1357: I'm sure it's the case of correction @Babr is trying apply on the diphthongs "ay" and "aw". In my opinion, the Iranian Persian should vocalise the way they are spelled - both with the vocalisation and the Roman input in {{fa-IPA}}.

شِیْخ (šeyx) and شَیْخ (šeyx) result in the same transliteration for modern Iranian but the latter vocalisation is incorrect for Iranian.

Same with نُوْروز (nowruz) and نَوْروز (nowruz) - the former vocalisation is correct but the latter is not (for modern Iranian, not for other varieties).

@Babr, I can leave you alone, if you prefer not to hear my opinion any more. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps, but having to enter two different vocalisations into one transliteration template would be excessive and defeat its purpose. At that point, one might as well just type the different transliterations manually or use two separate templates. Being able to generate both Iranian and Dari transliterations from just the vocalised Classical Persian spelling is its purpose.

The solution I see is to use a way to detect syllable boundaries (the IPA template already seems capable of this) to avoid applying the /ay/ > /ey/ shift in such instances. The examples you mention are not important, since /ay/ and /aw/ don't occur in the same syllable in Iranian Persian at all. All instances of Classical Persian /ay/ and /aw/ have become /ey/ and /ow/. Samiollah1357 (talk) 04:29, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@Samiollah1357: I liked that automation too. Perhaps the vocalisation issue I described is competely different but بَیان (beyân) produces "beyân" instead of the desired "bayân" on Iranian.

This issue seems to occur on "-ayâ-"/ "-ayyâ-" type of situations, perhaps the check should be on vowel following: "ay(y)" + vowel. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:41, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Such a check would indeed solve this issue. A place it frequently occurs is when نـ (na-) is prefixed to verbs, such as نیفتاد (nayoftâd, “didn't fall”) from افتادن (oftâdan, “to fall”). Samiollah1357 (talk) 05:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@Samiollah1357 Thanks for the response and the references you provided! I will make a dialectal table for Iranian dialects when I can, but I am a bit busy at the moment so I'll need to take a wikibreak, unfortunately. I'll work on it when I get back.

Also, the issues in {{fa-xlit}} and {{fa-IPA}} are the same, as fa-xlit actually uses the dialect conversion built into fa-IPA. I will try to fix fa-IPA when I can, it has a few issues because of my poor coding skills. I have gotten a bit better at coding since then and should be able to make some basic improvements in the coming months. — BABR・talk 15:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello,

Your user page has a IPA transcription of your username that reads /bæbɜ˞/. Is this pronunciation correct?

• Audio (US):

  (file)

Thank you Flame, not lame (Don't talk to me.) 22:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@Flame, not lame, yes, more or less. I'll put it on my user page :p — BABR・talk 14:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)