Please note that Flemish is considered a dialect of Dutch, not a distinct language. It should never have a separate language header. Include Flemish entries under ==Dutch== with a (Flemish) tag before the definition. --EncycloPetey 16:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I am from Texas, and studied Dutch in college. I love languages and have also studied Spanish, German, Hungarian, Latin, ... and others. Dutch is the most fun ;) --EncycloPetey 19:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey Pete, can you please tell me the difference between пойдём & пошёл? Thanks Mallerd 23:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I saw your question about etymologies of arch and -archy. According to Webster's Dictionary, arch comes from Latin arcus (bow) whereas -archy is derived from Greek archos (ruler). By the way, one can study etymologies of English words e.g. on this site: http://www.etymonline.com/. Hekaheka 13:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello, do you know if the word arch is figuratively from the meaning of -archy in for example "oligarchy". As there -archy means rule, and if you see an arch, you see it is over your head. Like a government. Thanks if you know. Mallerd 13:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
This is not an example of -phore being used as a suffix. The "phor" is the root with meta- as the prefix. --EncycloPetey 23:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello Mallerd. I am RS2007. I created two new pages - Wikimedia Foundation and Wikiversity. I am new to Wiktionary. Can you improve the pages? Thank you. RS2007 07:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering, since you are a near native speaker of Russian, if you know how you can translate a sentence such as life is life, is it normal to just say жизнь жизнь? Not just for this sentence but for any where you have this situation. Thanks if you know Mallerd 18:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
hi, can you tell me the correct category about the Japanese derivations? I can't find it. Mallerd 20:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, putting the conclusion first, I think we don't need to create the "gashira" article. I replied on my talk page with a bit more detailed description. Cheers! --Tohru 16:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Tohru, I have a question. The word waka gashira or shatei gashira consist both of 2 words including gashira. Rodasmith and I were wondering whether がしら (gashira) is only used in compounds such as those, and or the word in isolation is pronounced as かしら (kashira). And if you can, can you create the gashira article? Thanks Mallerd 12:24, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Atelaes! I have a question, the other day I saw a word here on Wiktionary, it somewhat was an atonym of Hellas or Hellenistic, since it was referring to the "Greek" period/inhabitants before the flourishing of modern-day Greek mainland. Do you understand what I mean? So mainland is Hellas, and they had a term for the Cycladic and Minoan (Mycean) cultures. I can't find the word back, I though I had seen the word in the la:Greek derivations category, but it doesn't show there. It started with a P, of that I am sure. Can you help me please? Greetings Mallerd 21:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
We don't use redirects except for certain cases (alternate forms of phrases, some Arabic forms, etc.). Not ever for misspellings or transliterations. Robert Ullmann 14:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
>>Hey AugPi, can you eplain the 3 meanings of ver- to me? Especially the undesirable consequence, how is that applied to verdelen for example? Mallerd 13:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
No problem. I have added this information about the plural to the -um page. Mallerd 09:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
It is the same as the English -s. So I will change that, but what do you mean with flesh it out, I don't understand. Mallerd 12:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Hello, could you please add pronunciation to these "friend" articles? I don't know when it is k and ch in Italian. Mallerd 20:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
>>Hi, I see you have created the kamp page. Do you have an etymology? :) Thanks Mallerd 20:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)<<
Jcwf 75.178.179.208 03:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Could you use the {{infl}} template? It makes creating new entries easier because you don't have to write the article name under POS header and you don't have to specify a POS category as it is inserted automatically (see for example this). Since you seem to be a native Dutch speaker, could you also use Dutch inflection templates such as {{nl-noun}}? I could do that by myself but I don't know anything about inflecting words in your language. Thanks, Jyril 11:17, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
{{infl}} template; for Indonesian nouns the line below the POS header would be {{infl|id|noun}}.--Jyril 17:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)>>Hallo, kunt u mij helpen om het vrouwelijk in tjokvolle te veranderen in plaats van tjokvole? Dank u. Mallerd 21:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)<<
If you get a chance, it would be a good thing if you could check Category:Dutch nouns with incomplete gender once in a while to see if there are any Dutch words that need to have their gender marked. —Stephen 04:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
{{infl}}Hello there, I noticed that you have been using the template {{infl}}. The syntax should be {{infl|id|noun}} - this will auto categorise the word in the correct part of speech category e.g. Category:Indonesian nouns. --Williamsayers79 11:07, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
The etymology has been created. Atelaes 20:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I notice that you added that barra is a Celtic word for summit. Celtic is not a language listed on the English Wiktionary; did you mean Irish, Scottish Gaelic or Welsh?--Williamsayers79 18:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
- it's not good to just blatantly copy/paste from copyrighted pages, in this case etymonline, people here get blocked for doing so ^_^. You might wanna try to look up cognates in more friendly places in the future (such as the list of PIE roots in the appendix, IEED project pages or the *steh₂- page itself). --Ivan Štambuk 17:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Ik heb eens een kort vraagje: als je een nieuwe pagina maakt van bijvoorbeeld een nederlands werkwoord, moeten daar dan ook vertalingen van andere talen bij, of moet je enkel vertalingen van andere talen bij de engelse woorden zetten. Bedankt.
If i've just made a new page which deals with a dutch word, do i also have to add translations into other languages then, or just one simple english translation. Regards.
Hey. Even een kort vraagje: hoe komt het dat bij sommige nederlandse woorden staat dat ze tegelijk mannelijk en vrouwelijk zijn. Ik bedoel, een woord kan toch geen twee geslachten tegelijk hebben (zoals hier). Ik begrijp dit niet goed, waarom is dit zo, weet jij het? Moet je bij het meervoud van het woord ook nog hetzelfde geslacht herhalen? Kan je dat direct in de template doen, of moet je het er tussen zulke '{{}}' haakjes nog achter zetten? Bedankt. Vin 19:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for all these entries. However, there is a minor issue of naming. Wikipedia uses Sranan Tongo, SIL uses the same name, and the Ethnologue uses simply Sranan. Our template, {{srn}} is currently set up to expect Sranan. Personally, I really don't care which one we use, but I think we should pick between one of the preceding two, and switch the entries to it. Your thoughts? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 08:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi, i have restored your entry for the word in subject. On my first research i don't have found any references for this etimology, but now i have done a new and exhaustive search, and i have found the necessary references. Giannib --13:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC) P.S.: sorry for my english...
I can see that you created empty categories Category:Frisian language and Category:Frisian verbs. Did you notice that I deleted those just recently? ^_^. The issue about "Frisian language" was settled by creating separate categories for Frisian languages (West, North, Saterland). The term Frisian is in English sometimes loosely used synonymously with West Frisian, and that much less ambiguous name is the one preferred here. Snakesteuben did an outstanding work sorting the already present ==Frisian== entries into appropriate individual languages, and the fixing the translation tables, so you might wanna ask her about more details on distinguishing those (apparently she's more engaged on fy.wikt lately). Cheers! --Ivan Štambuk 23:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Hey Atelaes, on Wikipedia I was warned for vandalism. Some guy was reverting a question of mine without explanation and when I asked for one he reverted my question without an answer. He did it one more time then I got angry and then he %$%#@ warned me for vandalism! How much power abuse can you get in a few minutes? Do you know if there is anything I can do to block this user or something for this behaviour? Mallerd 00:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
<<Hey AugPi, on kore there is a Turkish meaning, but it should be capitalized how can I make a capitalized entry without being redirected to the normal "kore"? Mallerd 11:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)>>
the message you sent me didn't make sense at all. Next time could you please try sending it to me in english?PapaSmerf 02:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Dutch + Indonesian : yet you haven't added rijsttafel yet? (Or am I not spelling it correctly? It is very many years since I had one in Amsterdam). SemperBlotto 14:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I noticed. It's this stuff: seroendeng. See also w:nl:seroendeng. Mallerd 16:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi, could you look at the Dutch entry for kabouter please - I've done a bit of research on these little guys (there's some interesting stories about them!) but this probably isn't perfect. I'm not certain I can describe them as similar to leprechauns but still they bear some resemblance! Thanks. --Jackofclubs 09:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mallerd, Im not very active at the moment (busy,busy). I think you can put quotes under a separate citation tab here, but Im not sure. Groetjes Jcwf 00:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Jamaican is {{jam}}, language header is Template:jam. Robert Ullmann 10:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I've created this entry. It is somekind of prefix I guess, but I want to ask a native English speaker (with knowledge of Dutch) what a good translation of "drievoudig kampioen" is. I translated it (as you can see in the kali lipat entry) as "threefold champion", omitting champion. Is that correct? Thanks Mallerd 18:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Another question before I forget, how do I request (with a template) a translation within a translation table? I've seen it a couple of times. It would say something as: *Dutch: Please add a translation. Thanks Mallerd 18:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
{{trreq}} I believe. Nadando 18:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC)>>hey, hoe goed ben je in Nederlandse straattaal? Waar leeer je Nederlands? Mallerd 00:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)<<
Please do not subst: etymological templates. If you wish, you may update to the current template, which for {{S.}} would be {{etyl|es}}. --EncycloPetey 00:46, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
{{etyl|es}} leads directly to the language. The template {{S.}} is an old template and is being done away with. --EncycloPetey 20:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)Hello. Fine thanks :) I hope everything goes well with you, too. Well, your questions, "Don't you speak Dutch?" is "Hollandaca konuşamıyor musun?" which literally means "Can't you speak Dutch?". And "şükran"... Actually when someone does a good thing, you say teşekkürler, teşekkür ederim, sağ ol... Not "şükran". It may be used in formal speech like "I want to tell my şükran(?) to my teacher, who raised me as a good person": "Beni iyi bir insan olarak yetiştiren öğretmenime şükranlarımı sunmak istiyorum".. Its English meaning may be "gratitude"... Best wishes from Turkey. Sinek 14:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi Mallerd
You wrote to me at the danish Wikipedia, because you wanted to translate Hvidtøl to duth, but as far as I can see there is a interwiki link to Tafelbier? --Broadbeer 10:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi,
Yes, they are called letters. As for the license plate, I don't know it is difficult to know but check here you might find something. Arabic numerals descend from Indian numerals you can find good explanations in each number's article. To answer your question about the use of Arabic numerals in the Arab world, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania do use them. Regards Hakeem.gadi 18:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
I need a favour, actually 2. Could you please create the following
Also, I still have not received response about "Russaki". I've tried asking a Russian on the German wikipedia, but perhaps my German was too poor to understand. Could you please ask it for me? Both Russian and German are languages you speak at a near-native level. I have asked this user for help, but perhaps you know another user? Thank you very much. Mallerd 19:23, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I have recieved a reply (in German of course). I was wondering if you could translate it for me? That would mean much to me. Thank you
Hallo, können Sie mir bitte erzahlen was das Wort "rusak" bedeutet in Deutschland und insbesondere im Kreis des Russen in Deutschland? Wie weit verbreitet is das Wort? Bitte reagieren auf User:Mallerd. Danke schön
Kindest regards, Mallerd 18:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, isn't reality seperate from what you can imagine? There are many occasions where Russian Germans use "rusak", just to identify themselves as, like Alex Ex says "a part of Russian immigrants (in Germany)". Do you believe that an entry (rusak/russaki) should be created? Mallerd 15:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, this is how I am going to describe the slang term русак,it should be under a Russian header saying that it's slang only used in Germany. Agreed? Mallerd 16:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, isn't colloquial usage often more widespread among speakers? Alex Ex said that only a small portion of the German Russians uses it in the sense of "Russian". I believe that small portion stands for "slang" and widespread for "colloquial". Please correct me if I am terribly wrong here, so I will not make mistakes similar to this. Mallerd 19:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
What I understood from Alex Ex was that the Russian immigrant group in Germany didn't mean Russian looks, but Russian descendance. This way, the word "rusak" has 3 different meanings. I am not accusing you of anything, but I requested you to translate the German reply before. Perhaps I have misunderstood Alex Ex. If you are getting tired of this, I understand. Mallerd 18:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, capito. Thank you for your time and knowledge. Mallerd 18:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
How To Deal With Dutch People
(1) Many foreigners call everything Dutch…well…'Dutch'. Don't! The word Dutch reminds Dutch people of the word Duits which is used for Germans and other things he dislikes. A Dutch person is a Hollander or a Nederlander.
(2) As a foreigner, don't ever try to speak Dutch. Not only will you get an enormous headache but the Hollanders will not understand what you mean. Foreigners are supposed to speak English or Gibberish. In the latter case they will be an easy target for pickpockets since they will not be able to talk to the police.
(3) Don't ever try to eat 'drop'. (Dutch Licorice) Drop is a sort of candy that can only be eaten by Hollanders. It can be recognized by the colour: black. The taste is a blend between earwax and paint (black). Hollanders absolutely adore the stuff and eat many kilo's of it. There is a nationwide conspiracy to look at the faces of foreigners that were made to believe the stuff is actually edible.
(4) Don't buy wooden shoes. They will look completely ridiculous. Which is the reason they will try to sell them to you. A Hollander himself would not want to be found dead wearing them.(Preferably a Hollander doesn't want to be found dead at all).
(5) Don't make holes in the dikes. Such behaviour is commonly disapproved and in extreme cases it can get you stoned by wooden shoes. But feel free to put your finger in the dike if you feel the urge. It will at least get you a few laughs from the natives.
(6.) A Hollander is always right and he knows it. With this in mind it is very easy to cope with most Hollanders. If you ever get in an argument with a Hollander, tell him he was absolutely right and that you now realize how wrong you were. Now he will go crazy: Since you're a foreigner, you can never be right. You agree with him, therefore he couldn't be right. Impossible. He's a Hollander. But…then…he…Now is the time to take a step back and observe how the Hollander will try to strangle himself with a tulip.
(7) Mills are inevitable.
(8) It is not necessary to fake interest for tulips, mills, wooden shoes or cheese. Every Hollander knows you came for the soft drugs and the Amsterdam red-light district. Both are widely spread and easy to find. Just ask any Hollander over age 6 or a French tourist. (See points 19 and 20)
(9) Avoid soccer fans at all times. Soccer in Holland is just an excuse to crush the skulls of practically everybody else, including yours. This mainly takes place when the game is lost…or tied…or won. It is extremely foolish to stand next to a cop during these festivities (see point 10) Also remember never to mention the 1974 cup finals near a Hollander. He will instantly pull you into a long-lasting litany about how good 'Orange' played then and how good…blablablabla…
(10)Cops in Holland are mainly used to throw stuff at. If you get the uncontrollable desire to hit someone, take on a cop. No Hollander will pay any attention if you hit a cop, put a knife in his cranium or firmly kick him in the butt. Cops represent authority and not one Hollander recognizes a higher authority then himself. You will notice the fact that most cops are actually foreigners that were lured into this job.
(11)Hollanders do not like spending money. They would rather cut of an ear. A Hollander will be your friend for life if you give him something for free. This might explain the great success of McDonalds in Holland. The story that copper wire is an invention of two Hollanders fighting over a found cent is absolutely true.
(12)Holland is small. It is sometimes rumoured that Holland is so small they take it inside when it's raining. This is not true because it rains 365 days a year. This also explains the wooden shoes: they float. Yes…Holland is small and Hollanders are very proud of it. They will use any opportunity to say that Holland accomplished such great things for such a small country. A fitting answer would be to refer to it's colonial past. Which brings us to point 13.
(13)If you want to insult a Hollander - and sooner or later you will want to - tell him you don't think he's a pacifist. Now start running for your life. He will not stop trying to prove he's the most peace-loving person in the world until your intestines are on the street. As mentioned earlier, mentioning the so-called colonial past in Suriname or Indonesia, will instantly reduce the Hollander to a sniffling child, begging for forgiveness.
(14)Hollanders are supposed to be tolerant. Nonsense. They just make too much money selling drugs and Malaysian women, to miss the opportunity to make so much profit.
(15)The most important way of public transportation in Holland is the bicycle. Feel free to take any bike of which you can pick the lock. Just don't expect your own bike to be in the same spot where you parked it 3 minutes earlier. Hunting season for bikes is open 365 days a year. Good luck!
(16)At almost every bread meal in Holland you will find a mean looking big knife with a sharp slide in it. It is called a 'kaasschaaf' and is used to cut very thin slices of cheese (Yes, it's a Dutch invention). Never cut cheese with a regular knife, you will make yourself completely ridiculous. Another typical eating tool is the so-called bottlescraper. Beware, don't use it for that annoying itch on your back. It's designed to scrape the last bits of yoghurt or mayonnaise out of the bottle. A Hollander will use every millimeter of the product he bought. He paid for it, he'll eat it, no matter what.
(17)At the time this was written, the Dutch economy was doing pretty good. Hollanders maintain the idea that this is the result of intensive negotiations between different parties like unions, employers and politicians. They even have a name for it: the poldermodel. One likes to convince foreigners this poldermodel is the key to a successful economy and if those same foreigners would be smart enough to follow their example, their economy would be flourishing as well. This is a load of crap. Hollanders just like to talk, talk, talk. By calling all this chattering negotiating they give themselves the impression they're doing something useful. Talk is never cheap in Holland.
(18)Hollanders drown fried patato-sticks (Chips) in litres of mayonnaise and put it in a pointed paper bag. This is called : Een patatje met. One such bag is able to keep you alive for an unlimited period of time. It is only uncertain if this is a life worth living. But there have been sightings of tourists actually enjoying a patatje met.
(19)Holland has a unique service for -mainly- France tourist. At the moment they pass the border, they are enthusiastically welcomed by youngsters in fast cars. These youngsters have the explicit wish to show these tourists the way to the many interesting tourist-attractions Holland has to offer. Strangly, they always end up in a coffee-shop or drug house though. (see point 20) Weird people, the French.
(20)There is a fast and foolproof way of embarrassing yourself in Holland.Enter a coffeeshop and ask for a cappuccino with a biscuit. Coffeeshops -remember this- do not sell coffee. They do however have a large variety of stimulating products at reasonable prices. For unknown reasons, coffeeshops are very popular amongst young French tourists.
(21)A 'Fries' is a sort of spare-Hollander that lives in the north in a province all for themselves. They love frozen water, Beerenburg (a form of euthanasia with alcohol) and endlessly pointing out that other Hollanders are not Fries. The rest of Holland looks at this behaviour the same way parents will look at an obstinate child.
(22)When it comes to what books to bring to Holland, I would advise the following:The complete works of William Shakespeare or a leather-bound part of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica (part Fr to He of the 1913 edition). Both books have about the proper weight to keep a pushy pimp or dealer away from you with a well aimed swing. After this I would advice you to drop the book since this greatly improves your speed during your getaway. Make sure you bring enough books.
(23)Don't bother renting a car. Not only will you be able to steal more bikes then you can use but car traffic in Holland is not something to enjoy. Where the rest of the world uses kilometres to express the lengths of traffic jams, in Holland these are measured in weeks. To be honest, the most steadfast ones are worth a visit. The sight of starving people in an expensive Mercedes can greatly improve your mood if your somewhat philosophical. Bring some pieces of bread to throw through the open windows. The fights over them are often very spectacular.
(24)In contradiction of many rumours, it is not legal to bring your mother in law to Holland for do-it-yourself euthanasia. Tourists are warned not to take matters into their own hands.
(25)Whether you're catholic, Muslim or worshipper of Urrrgl the god of all Honest politicians, in Holland it will be easy to find a church, temple or oak tree of your liking. Hollanders are supposed to be very tolerant to other religions and believes. This is not true. The only reason Holland has so much churches, sects or cults is the fact they have a difference in opinion about everything. A Hollander is always right (see point 6) and everyone that does not agree can beat it and start his own church.
(26)Holland is a kingdom.It just doesn't have a king but a queen and her husband is not king but a prince. The queen does not rule -much- but she's very capable in cutting ribbons and visiting other countries. She is also very decorative at state banquettes. Her son, the crown prince, will take over if she stops queening. His wife in turn will be queen so that Holland will finally have a king and queen again.April 30 is queensday but it is not the birthday of the queen but princes Juliana's, who used to be queen. With things like this it's only logical that more and more people want Holland to be a republic. Queensday, by the way, is just an excuse to drink lots of beer and sell all their old junk on the streets.
(27)It would be wise to learn how to swim before you come to Holland.No, the dikes will hold, that's not the problem, but the large amount of lakes, streams, rivers canals and creaks could lead to painful mistakes. That shiny new strip of asphalt you're turning on to with your car during rain might not be an asphalt road at all.
(28)Dutch painting.Dutch painters get famous after they die. This is a very sensible rule from the buyers point of view. Not only will the artist have to make a lot of paintings to earn a living, it also produces some very nice investments. The painters however do not share this opinion and in at least one case this lead to selfmutalation of an ear.
(29)If one of your Dutch friends invites you for a birthday, prepare for a unique experience. Unique in the way that you can only compare it to taking a seat in a wooden chair with a sharp nail driven trough the seat and afterwards not being able to move for a month. More then one foreigner has been driven to the brink of madness by attending a Dutch birthday. The regular Dutch birthday party consists mainly of sitting still and talking to others about your job, your car, politics and foreigners. You are expected to leave somewhere about 23:00 and you will be grateful you can.
(30)Holland has more cities then Amsterdam.There is…eh…and…Well, there are more cities.
(31)Dutch beer has built up quite reputation for itself. Some people even drink it! Brewing is on of the things Hollanders are traditionally very good at. Holland has never been a country where anything was more interesting then drinking yourself half blind or painting landscapes. This made the beer industry very popular rapidly. Expert say that once you've tasted Dutch beer like Heiniken, Grolsch or Amstel, all other kinds of beer taste like tap water in a lousy hotel.
(32)Dutch tap water is safe to drink. This is remarkable if you realise most of it comes from polluted rivers like the Rhine. Plans to improve the waterquality in the Rhine so that fish like the salmon can return there to mate, invokes a lot of protests from the Dutch. The idea of fish having sex in their drinking water upsets them.
(33)Dutch political debates are as boring as a 3-day lecture on famous Swedish sport heroes between 1762 and 1809.No shouting like 'Hear hear!!', no fistfights in front of a camera, not even politicians calling each other incompetent once in a while. (And there really are some amongst Dutch politicians). No, telling your opponent you have doubts about his policy is about the worst thing you can say. The result is that the interest for elections dropped drastically amongst Dutch voters. At the last voting only two elects showed up. The first one got lost on his way to the toilet and the second one was an illegal refugee who thought he came to the right place to get a visa.
>>Hola AugPi,
I was listening to this song called "Angelito". In it, the artist sings angelito vuela. What does that mean exactly? Thank you, adios! :D Mallerd 18:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC) <<
Hello Mallerd - you made some mistakes with the usage of {{en-noun}} for Indonesian nouns. Please can you look at the mistakes you made at this page, and possibly correct them? I know, there a many ,so maybe an automated process would be more suitable. --Jackofclubs 18:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)