Would you mind having a look at my Minnanhua-contributions at Sven70?
They were my very first contributions, and I had no idea how to format them, hence my questions:
Firstly, do you think the Minnanhua is correct? .
Secondly, as I was impressed by your entry about zan praise/terrific! , would you mind giving me a hand with the layout/formatting required by English Wiktionary if you think it would be worth while to add some of those tentative entries on a more permanent basis? I guess it is not just about accessible layout, but also about enabling bots to do their work, isn't it?
Thanks in advance!
PS. I'm writing this with speech recognition software I'm using for the very first time -- if this reads a bit awkwardly, then please bear with me, it should only get better! Once again, thank you for your time!
PPS. Please reply here since 1. my provider does dynamic IP allocation and 2. before I knew what hit me my account Sven70 got indefinitely blocked without me really realizing why , it might be that my then shorthand has led to a false impression and misunderstandings. -- — This comment was unsigned.
{{nan}}). From what I can tell, Min Nan is quite diverse, and so regionalized tagging is certainly appropriate (similar to what we have to do with the many dialects of Ancient Greek). The biggest adjustment that you need to make in your formatting is placement of all content under an L2 (language) header (i.e. Min Nan). With all the languages which we deal with here, any content which is not sorted into a language is basically worthless and is nearly always removed unless an appropriate language can be found. If you're willing to work on your formatting, I'd be willing to unblock Sven70 and give you some feedback. Again, A-cai knows infinitely more about this stuff than I, and if we disagree on anything, he should be presumed correct. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:23, 15 January 2009 (UTC)Thank You Both for lots of information provided in a very speedy way! I will start with A-Cai's last paragraph, to work my way through the rest of your replies in the coming days. I couldn't agree more that I am not someone who has academic knowledge of min Nan-I hardly have any knowledge about it at all, which bothers me since I've been living for about five years now here in the south of Taiwan, and I tend to take an interest to say the very least in the languages of places I live. Allow me to provide some personal background to this topic as this might help to be better understood. I am formost serious about Mandarin Chinese. It was still hard to find the books I needed to make headway with Chinese. With Taiwanese I couldn't find anything I deemed useful. Local people will often tell me conflicting and contradictory information like "Minnanhua" is not written", even though in karaoke bars Taiwanese songs having Chinese character subtitles as a memory aid. The Taiwanese I submitted I actually got from Taiwanese songs on the local song contests here in the style of American Idol, taken from their subtitles I mean,as explained to me by my local friends, for example 家后 I think to remember . Coming to the conclusion that information about Taiwanese is hard to get led me to try to submit it, my very first contributions to Wictionary as I outlined above. I do realize my formatting was non--existent as I had no idea how to do it, I just hoped an experienced editor would whack it in shape, me learning so from my own entries the required formatting. Also content-wise, I am very grateful for feedback as the sources I have to rely on are often, well, unreliable LOL.. Wictionary, along with the other wiki media, could make such a tremendous difference in this world of contradictions, hence my motivation to contribute! Apologies this paragraph got so long. Thanks once again both of you for such a speedy, positive and focused reply! Thank you!!--219.69.81.128 18:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
dear A-cai, I found the above watching a music program on Taiwanese mainstream TV and couldn't find the entry in wictionary; could it be that wictionary doesn't carry many Chinese/Taiwanese words, or is it my search strategy that doesn't find them? would you say the above is standard Taiwanese notation? They did use it a lot. Would you think, if not in wictionary yet, it would be worth while to input it? I am willing to try to help, tho I may need some guidance. Thank you in advance, Sven 70--219.69.81.128 12:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Dear A-cai, thank you so much for your prompt and spot-on reply!!
Please allow me first to cut-and-paste lyrics, which might constitute a reference to the non-standard use of Chinese characters in Taiwan for writing Taiwanese :
--219.69.81.128 17:56, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I now realize those lyrics might be under copyright, so even on talk pages one is not supposed to display them? How then to illustrate sources? Just by hyperlink? I'll leave it for now, and will understand if you take them out, poor newbie me-confused smiley.
I'll try to reply to things you mentioned in your reply in the below:
As said, by far I am no expert on Taiwanese, but rather a beginner groping in the dark, trying to figure out an almost secret appearing language. I am very visual though, and cannot seem to remember having noticed 共 in the lyrics of Taiwanese songs; 甲 I notice a lot though, albeit I had no idea about its meaning/function until reading your explanation above, so thank you so much!!
This morning, I finally came around to checking out the Amoy-page, which proved to be a real treasure trove!! I especially liked the two tables, which I consider to be of very clear layout, a bit how in the end, after much tinkering, my own molecular biological research data looked, funny how things can be similar. But this aside beside, going through the examples I realized that what I asked you was not a word, as I assumed, in the way and analogous with say "假如" at the beginning of a sentence, positioning in which I kept noticing it, also remembering that yi/伊 also in Mandarin means third person singular, though I guess more so in wenyanwen/文言文 as I never encountered it in my modern materials.
Previously, I actually somehow missed the Amoy/廈門語 page, and it has been quite a while I checked the Taiwanese page, which I hope to come to tomorrow, as well as gradually going through the other wiki-materials you mentioned. I'm also quite keen on checking out the Taiwanese dictionary, let's see and put my Chinese to the test! Thanks again for all the help!!
By the way, I didn't provide more of a sentence for the simple reason that already I hardly ever can remember more than just a phrase, clause or word, even in Mandarin-sad smiley. I'm also hampered by the fact that I only seem to be able to take in so many, read so few, words a day, during which I spend a substantial amount of my time familiarizing myself with the speech recognition. Thanks for understanding and helping lifting the seal of Taiwanese for me!!! Sven 70--219.69.81.128 18:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Dear A-cai, thank you so much for an extremely helpful and elaborate answer!!! I hope to reply to it into some depth later on. For now, let me tell you that the Taiwanese dictionary in combination with the character dictionary on wiki media got me further than I am normally used to, which is nowhere Lol! The word in the headline I couldn't locate tho, and it's seems that it's rather central in this songspace , which strikes me as a rather untypical Taiwanese one; when I first saw Jolin's/蔡依林 music video, I was convinced it was in Japanese!! To be fair, Taiwanese friends told me this song would be about love actually making people so brave they would even meet at the cemetery, which seems to be the case as far as I can follow the lyrics; could it be there is actually quite some Manderin in this song as apart from some of the especially longer sentences, I seem to be quite able to follow the meaning? Thank you in advance, Sven 70
蔡依林-墓仔埔也敢去 ★ danfeng927制作 初恋爱情酸甘甜 五种气味唷 若听一句我爱你 满面是红吱吱 尤其是小姑娘心内是真欢喜 表面上她革甲真生气喔 啊啊啊 伊伊伊 会会会 巴比补 热恋的人真趣味 欢头喜面唷 爱情热度像火箭 烧滚滚直直去 不管是落雨天或者是风台天 犹原是约做阵谈情爱唷 狂恋的人有勇气 不惊一切唷 无论三更也半暝 墓仔埔也敢去 只要是心爱的时时来面对面 才没来像疯狗乱乱撞唷
http://mp3.sogou.com/music.so?query=%C4%B9&as=false&st=&ac=1&pf=&class=1
In you tube: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=oCjdAeAPkB4--219.69.81.128 20:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
dear A-cai, please allow me to submit the following excerpt :
I'm not you’re circus monkey I'll break the cage around me I got to get myself out I got to break free now 我足像毒品 无我你粘咪就挡袂条 粘咪冷 粘咪热 无我就开始皮皮抖 逐天困袂去 喘袂去 逐天眠梦有鬼 我叫你吵醒 不知影你置都位 慢慢仔找 原因置都位 我甲你安慰 有我置这 我的话置你的头壳底 but you better remember baby you’re my circus monkey you’re just acircus monkey circus monkey I’ll beat you down 不正囝仔爱黑白讲话 搁讲白贼话就爱煽嘴皮 这是我的土地搁敢偷拿 无礼貌的人客歹势 我忍耐相久 要开始出手 搁敢说这款话 袂记得这是我的厝 我甲你踢 我甲你揍
I went through all the sources I can think of, including the Taiwanese dictionary you recommended, but the only meaning I could find is "sleeve", which is perhaps meant in 袂條, though I couldn't find this compound in my dictionaries either, otherwise, on and by itself used, it seems to make more sense to be translated as something like "But", could it be?
The Taiwanese Mandarin Web page was very interesting, an omission may be "pine apple",鳳梨/菠蘿. I'm not too sure about the latter‘s spelling/ Chinese characters. Boluo is what I would buy by halves on a stick traveling through mainland China. Back in Taiwan, I would be pointed out that the "right" word is fengli, the former meaning jackfruit in Taiwan, what in China is used b-l.mi for, with the added "mi" . To me now that is clear, and I won't have many problems switching back and forth as long as not too tired, but I only found out about the confusing, at least to me that is, naming thing over the course of two years, especially the jackfruit one, as here in Asia for the first time I encountered that fruit
A further interesting aspect of the above I thought lies in鳳梨 being pronounced "honglai" in Taiwanese, which code switched back to Mandarin gives "red comes", red being the lucky color . So now shopping in Carrefour, the red riband pine apples make a lot of sense to me, though it took me three years approximately to find out about exactly why they are considered lucky, and i wish to spare others such an expensive time investment, especially seems really this is not exactly rocket science, but just a case of sharing knowledge about traditions linked with languages.
I guess the latter would need to be submitted on another page, but I cannot readily think of one, alternatively, it seems to be a little elaborate to be put under a note, which are easy to be overlooked anyway I feel, apart from being in small print, which might not be accessible to every one wanting to use wiki media.
By the way, in one of the Chinese New Year's commercials, featuring the actors of the "Cape seven" movie, tremendously popular here, also featured a white Redish, the local variety, looking like an oversized white carrot,白蘿蔔，on the拜拜table, which disastrously disappeared as eaten by a white rabbit. Luckily enough, another French retail giant, namely Geant, was readily available to help out -- my question: does white radish also carry a lucky meaning? ,"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":,"classes":}'>Reply
dear A-cai, since instead of focusing on my Chinese I was al ready formulating part of the reply out in my head, I better get on with it, though, as in instances before, I'd rather waited till I had assimilated more of the sources you gave me so as to avoid ask you things I could have worked out by myself
Okay my speech recognition is not working well; perhaps in the middle of this message I'll have to restart my computer, so please bear with me if the message seems incomplete.
I'll try to highlight some points mentioned, as this is a subject I feel there is a lot to be said about, and in my present environment they're just aren't many people amenable to a talk about such matters, and I am conscious to not overload you with my musings!
Taiwanese and what I want to do with it: my purpose with it doesn't go as deep and profound as with Mandarin, though clarifying such asks for some sentences; I do not remember whether I mentioned this before , but I sincerely would regret leaving Taiwan after so many years without understanding any of the local dialect and tongue.
So the same goes for hakka to which I am les exposed though my former and beloved girlfriend here told me she is hakka and I would have had to learn some haka for her mom, though she told me she isn't fluent anymore herself in it, leaving me with question marks-for example, I haven't spoken my native dialect in ages, but I assure you, I'm less than a few hours home again, and if I want to I speak "Booms" pretty much like anyone else over there again; why that is different here in Taiwan, me assuming they grew up with their parents, I don't know- but then now it occurs to me that is not a given here depending on how busy the parents get and where their parents work, but then they, the children, would likely get shifted towards the grandparents, who would be even more likely to speak dialect, I just can't solve that riddle...
And then dealing with the local people always carries potential for embarrassment to their side, whether questions asked about language and customs, in my experience just name it, frustrating... And it is not that they're always so sensitive about an ex-pat's feelings from their side, from pointing out how big one's nose is to barging into one's classroom when teaching, assuming good faith in most cases it'll all make sense somehow, only the Meta- communication I would hold for a very helpful never happens, but then already it doesn't happen intra-ex-pat "community", so who's to blame the locals then, not me, I guess,, though frustrating it is.
Back to Taiwanese, I would be happy to be able to figure out the occasional song I like, follow a bit the interspersed Taiwanese in say music programs by also glancing over at the ever present sub titles, and get a feel for the Taiwanese in the commercials I'm exposed to over and again, mainly, not so much use it myself in a communicational setting, nor follow all Taiwanese programs or conversations.
Which brings me to feedback upon the even immediate helpfulness of your replies: --219.69.81.128 05:20, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
In one commercial for I guess an online Mah Jong/麻將 site, an in the end drunk and garishly made up twenty-something girl says in an annoyed way: "m-sai ya" lying on the eatery bench, covering her cleavage with her woolen jacket at the same time; I now take this for meaning " I don't know" , having seen this commercial many many times before, not understanding of thing, so this little success experience made me smile and feel good about myself, like in having a sense of achievement, thank you so much!!!
I also came across, looking up characters a lot, more of your contributions, Taiwanese and otherwise I thought, in wictionary; I am aware you cannot allocate too much of your time as you already did to me, and that is where I feel wictionary can and could step in; actually, in the above example it is your entry about 無 which got me on track, along with the IPA you put in other entries, enabling me before that to figure out that the "sai" said in reply by the "Cape seven"- boy in yet another commercial I'm bombarded with constantly trying to follow the mainstream Mandarin news on TV here, actually stands for "知/I know" , this further being reinforced by the intonation of the child actor indicating annoyment as seemingly having been told the same thing over and again.
These two examples of what may seem like small things, actually do a lot in making me more tolerant and understanding for the Taiwanese- spoken part of local culture , in a big part due to your clear explanations and entries!! .
Same goes for your explanations on the non-standard Chinese character notations, which are apparently consistently used as a memory aid for Taiwanese songs in Taiwan, elaborations which at least helped me understand part of songs I've liked for ages like circus monkey.
I feel they might help other people who have a similar objective as I do, so would it be possible, as I thought you suggested previously, to give them in under the respective CJ KV-entries with a usage note that spells out that though not standard , these respective characters seem/ are widely used in Taiwanese song lyrics, perhaps providing the standard characters for Taiwanese along with.
I do realize on wictionary we are all "voluntarians" so to speak, and unless you contribute in the framework of some university program, I assume you are too; in any case, I am very willing to help with the eventual entries, though, as mentioned earlier on, I will need some guidance and supervision, and I guess I should start off with easier entries , and doing this4 me necessary vocabulary extension job I think there would be nothing against simultaneously turning some of those links blue as it were, tho I guess my contributions would be limited to pinyin pronunciation and main meanings.
Perhaps let me know what you think; by the way,the character in the topic header was in none of my dictionaries, the sole meaning "Mark" provided in the cJKv-entries might make sense in the last sentence of the circus monkey- song as "mark, not forget ", not sure; I took 卡 to mean "part" in the very first line of those lyrics, would you agree?
Not that I have covered all intended, but seeing that this post is already quite lengthy, along with me feeling the strain of working with the speech recognition for over two hours I guess , I'm going to leave it with this for now , thanking you once again for the truly tremendous helpyou provided!!
PS, I noticed the previous excerpt not to not containing the parts I referred to, sorry for that and so to make amends:
The "ka"-section :我自己啊无消无息就出去 行我的路卡危险但是卡水无行新的路 足紧就死叫我做你的猴死囝仔?
The other section, at the end:我忍耐相久 要开始出手 搁敢说这款话 袂记得这是我的厝 我甲你踢 我甲你揍 我甲你跩 我甲你捶 尚好唛袂记得 you’re my circus monkey etc.--219.69.81.128 07:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Dear阿才(my speech recognition balks at the pinyin version Right now , I hope I took the right characters)
I tried my hand at in the above. New entrie;, if you have time and resources, would you mind having a look and tell me what can be done better？
personally I would prefer "meaning" instead of "noun" in the third category header, and specifying the part of speech. Further on,but I noticed you start by giving the part of speech determiner., So i went along with that
Though, I noticed you put the pinyinunder the part of speech chapter, as I don't know how to write down the IPa notation, I put the pinyin, under the pronunciation header, instead.
For now I have no idea how to put in the categoriesas the abbreviations required seem quite complex; are they obligatory in e new entry？
My speech recognition has been near impossible to use writing this entry ,testimony. The vestiges above for which I apologizeincluding the erratic punctuation!
PS thanks for not yet having archived. our above conversationsas I still read it/ them regularly trying to take up somemore of what you shared generouslywith me, and it saves my painful arms from having to click my way throughto. Your archives, so thanks again!!--史凡 04:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
PPS if you know, somebody else who's willing to have a look at my entry. That's more than fine with me too as I know your time's limited and my entry is Mandarin Chinese--史凡 05:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Anyway
A heads-up that there is now an ISO code for Literary Chinese (they don’t seem to be differentiating between 文言 and 古文), and I’ve created a language template for it; hopefully this is of use.
—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 23:13, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
dear A-cai, I had a look at the table You provided me with and looking at your entries,. I had some of the following questions: sign.
ɤ--. You don't seem to use this symbol much. Is there a reason for that?that it is rather unknown by most Westerners. ?
ɪ-- I notice you don't use this one, but the regular'i' in words/syllables such as "ping";, again, is there a reason for that?
ɔ-- I noticed I thought, you use that one in'yong' instead of the Omegalisted in the table; again, I wonder, if you did so because of having given the matter thought, as you seem to do in general, impression taken from your contributions.
Forgive me, if any of the above observations are actually/proven incorrect --. IPA can be a bit confusing for several reasons, I guess one definitely for me being that almost each dictionary I tak in my hand say fer English shows variations in the actual IPA used; whether this is so because of alternative systems or changing official IPA conventions. I just don't know
When I had a look several times at the Wikipedia entry for IPA. It'was so overlydone for and by as it were specialistsI just bounced back -- that is why Iso appreciatetwhat I think you did in the page for Taiwanese, that is provide the specialist information, including the technical terms, important whan communicatingwith knowledgeable people, along with a clarification in simple words. understandable to lay people like me.
Would you know of web page that gives da sound for each IP a s symbol like perhaps by sound file, along with providing related/close sounds. In other languages, as well as providing a clear scheme about what is actuallyhappening in one's vocal apparatus, like teeth/tong/lip position, extent of nasalizationand such relevant things in one or a series of diagrams?
Once again, I like to stress. Just how useful I find your contributions, and I'm very much so looking forward Sto your reply!!史凡 05:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello. A while back, you created the Mandarin entry for 甲子. As you are surely away, this is the first in a sexagenary cycle. I come across these years often enough while reading old Japanese text and need to look them up too often, so I desired to create entries for them. However, I stopped after just a few. The problem is in the phrase "year of the X". For example, 甲子, 丙子, 戊子, 庚子, and 壬子 are all years of the rat. Are you aware of a more accurate naming convention for these? Regards, Bendono 02:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
While looking at things that use {{lang}} which is in the process of being deprecated (see WT:RFDO#Template:lang) I see these two templates are unused and use lang. Since you wrote the templates, I figured it would be easiest to ask you whether these two templates could simply be deleted. — Carolina wren discussió 22:24, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai, In the cmn-noun template for Chinese characters, i sometimes see rs=宀03. It appears to be characters that i cannot read using my browser, although i can read both jianti and fanti online. How do i get the correct rs value? Is it alright to remove the rs value, ie. is it optional? Psoup 07:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to say hi. I am a long-time Chinese learner, although I haven't gone beyond being intermediate. I haven't created many Chinese entries but I have been adding Chinese Mandarin translations (and I can see a lot of red). Anatoli 23:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I haven't yet gotten around to doing the Japanese templates yet, but I figured you might be interested in the Han ones :) — opiaterein — 23:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai. Does the following work I quote give translations (viz. 少年 (shàonián) and 被動者 / 被动者) of philerast, or have I misinterpreted it?:
Thanks in advance. † ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 16:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-Cai. Cheers for the message. Is there any advice you can give me apart from the guides? If you see any errors in my entries, etc don't hesitate to let me know. Tooironic 15:23, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai, I've created an entry for 狗仔队 but I want to know what you think. I've included an etymology section but I'm not sure if I have formatted it correctly (probably not). Also, now that I think of it, "son of a bitch brigade" isn't really an accurate literal translation of 狗仔队 is it? I'm not sure what the author, Daniel Kane, was thinking. But I thought it was an interesting thing to add nonetheless. Tooironic 02:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I sympathsize with your desire to shy away from the more tedious task of adding things like references etc. However, I believe that in the course of time, Wiktionary's only chance at competing with other online dictionaries is in its unique capability to provide an unprecedented level of detail about almost any word or phrase. For example, you would be hard pressed to find an entry like 傾國 in almost any other dictionary. This is because Wiktionary is not only collaborative, it also benefits from being a member of the Wikimedia family. -- A-cai 21:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai,
I just created a new entry for 借口 so I could see how well I did with the referencing formatting. Could you please check it for me? Also, I have a question about example sentences. Am I allowed to quote them from print or online dictionaries (with citation) or would that be a breach of copyright? I think I remember seeing some people quoting examples from various online sources - is that a good way to go about it? Sounds like fun but what templates do I need to use? Cheers. Tooironic 07:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
OK... Just created a new entry for 阿貓阿狗 while trying to incorporate everything you've taught me. Please be brutal in giving your feedback, I appreciate it! There are two things missing that I think I should include, but not quite sure how to word and/or format it:
Once we've gone through this I may as well add a duplicate entry for its synonym (阿狗阿猫) as well. Cheers Tooironic 12:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
{{pejorative}}: I added this template to the definition line. This is usually the English term that corresponds to 贬义 in dictionary entries. The {{pejorative}} template is modeled after the more generic {{context}} template. See Template talk:context for more information about the function of this template.Forgive my ignorance, but I can't seem to find any info about Chinese translation of English entries @ Wiktionary:About Chinese. Is there any convention as to how they should be formatted? There seems to be a lot of variance to say the least. Tooironic 07:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Just me harassing you again. I've created an entry for 机关 while trying to add as much detail as I can (all entries from me will be like this from now on). I have run into a couple of issues though:
Cheers! Tooironic 09:34, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Just created a new entry for 爱谁谁. Questions:
{{slang}} template in both entries so that you can see the difference in the parameters. Note that I changed the pos header from "Idiom" to "Interjection". It's not that "idiom" is wrong per se; "Interjection" just seems more accurate.I thought this one would make for an interesting entry. ^_^ Any comments? I wasn't sure what to do about the 儿 here so I created duplicate entries for 把我这X字倒过来写 (note without the 儿) to ensure the user can find it properly (searching for it without the 儿, interestingly, won't bring up the 儿-version as a suggestion). Don't suppose we have any established policy for 儿化? We could do a redirection for one of them into the other but I think I remember reading that wiktionary doesn't like that so much. Tooironic 17:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
FYI: Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others#Category:Min Nan. —RuakhTALK 13:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
It's taken awhile, but I finally managed to create nice detailed entries for NB and all its alternative forms (牛逼、牛比、etc). As you've probably guessed, I would like to expand the amount of Mandarin slang entries on wiktionary, as it's looking a bit abysmal at the moment. Comments are welcome. Tooironic 06:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Be sure to proofread the source text, if you use the Chinese Wikisource version. I have found a number of typos in the past. -- A-cai 01:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I've tried to do a nice detailed entry for 器, do you think the formatting is acceptable? I've tried to add as many compounds as I can, and arranged them alphabetically under headwords and tailwords. I've also added quite a few possible definitions with example usages/compounds. Tooironic 05:35, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
{{rfc-header}} template won't complain. See 愛 and 字 for some more examples. Otherwise, it looks pretty good :) -- A-cai 13:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)Hi A-cai. I've edited 牛's compounds using the advice you gave me for 器. Let me know what you think. Notice how I put 九牛一毛 under (other) as here 牛 is neither head nor tail word. Also I used the table-ising template to make the list look pretty. Finally, I put 蜗牛 under both wōniú and guāniú (PRC and Taiwan pronunciations) for easy reference. Cheers. Tooironic 02:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Have I formatted these entries correctly? Wasn't sure, because they're not strictly characters/syllables. Tooironic 15:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
{{zh-hanzi}} template. Furthermore, I replaced the {{cmn-verb}} template with {{infl|cmn|verb}}. Also, you can use the {{zh-ts}} template for the synonyms section. I went ahead and changed this for you. -- A-cai 01:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)'d we talk?skype: sven0921 --史凡 08:05, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi there. Can you help with Wiktionary:Translation_requests#Chinese_characters_to_English? Cheers. SemperBlotto 13:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi, EncycloPetey told me to ask you about any questions I have about Chinese translation, and I do have a question. I have been adding a Chinese translation to English words, but I have noticed that there are a lot of templates to use for this. Do you have any recommendations? -- — This comment was unsigned.
{{t}} and {{zh-ts}} templates are the most common ones used for this purpose. See the translation section of telephone for an example of their usage. -- A-cai 22:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
def?--User:史凡 (歡迎光臨！請也用skype: sven0921為我RSI !) 17:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
勞捐=word?corect?--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˩˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 05:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
tx+aded:)-canu chek?--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 15:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
mygaffe-tx+http://en.wiktionary.orghttps://dictious.com/en/%E8%8E%B4%E7%AC%8B--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 00:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
'd u pl monitor my chin-edits?tx!:)--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 10:58, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
IPA rite?,"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":,"classes":}'>Reply
Categories: zh-tw:Verbs | Mandarin verbs | Chinese hanzi | Chinese words needing attention<wotstil missin?
from tw tv-news>=make amistake?--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 10:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
fromEPs talk-p,fyi
"下,mandarin
dun!only,rel-terms>compounds--mind havalook?ok likethat?:)--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 23:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, what you have done with those templates is correct. However, the editor who inserted the list of compounds did not format the list correctly. Right now, it is formatted as a Translations section, with "Mandarin:" in fornt of every entry and with the {{t}} template. A compounds section should not use either of those features.
I also do not know whether "Compounds" is an acceptable section header. We try to limit them to only a few standard headers so they can be checked by bots and to keep entries consistent. "Compounds" is not a header used in the languages I normally edit. --EncycloPetey 23:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC) "--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 01:15, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai,
I find Mandarin entries a bit too complicated compared to other languages. I've been adding translations mainly, not the entries - Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and some others - often German, French and Polish. Chinese is not an easy language, no doubt but if I add and an entry, what I need is jiantizi, fantizi (if they are different), pinyin, part of speech, English meaning and categories. If I were to create an entry for 化妝, 化妆 (huàzhuāng) - noun and verb, what would be the quickest way? Do I really need to show different romanisations and IPA? Also, not sure I can get the "rs" like in 天气 (rs=大01). Thanks in advance. Anatoli 04:36, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
If the entry were simply like this (without zh-forms, rs, references and derived terms): '''EXAMPLE:''' ==Mandarin== ===Noun=== {{cmn-noun|t|pin=huàzhuāng|pint=|tra=化妝|sim=化妆}} ''(cmn-noun or cmn-verb, etc. producing the entry's title)'' # ] ===Verb=== {{cmn-verb|t|pin=huàzhuāng|pint=|tra=化妝|sim=化妆}} # to ] ] '''END EXAMPLE and similar for jiantizi''' then I could be able to create these without having to look at extra dictionaries or sources. I could use a template to create quick entries without extra hard work. Would you rather me not create anything at all in a simplified form like above? Anatoli 00:32, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
{{cmn-noun}} template will place entries with missing rs values into Category:Chinese words needing attention (meaning someone else will know that it needs to be added to the entry). In terms of references, they are not mandatory. However, a reference section does help someone like me, who is trying to verify the accuracy of the information. However, please don't feel like you have to add everything at one go. We ultimately want all of our entries to be as complete as possible, but the work does not necessarily have to be done by the same person. In short, as long as you're adding good information, your edits should be welcome. -- A-cai 23:14, 16 July 2009 (UTC)*doesnotwork w/hanzi>'forms' :o--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/as I suffer RSI! 04:25, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
維安 (traditional, Pinyin wéiān, simplified 维安) 1. (Taiwan media) to keep the peace Related terms * 維治安 --史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 ( 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 18:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
agree?--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI! 07:52, 16 July 2009 (UTC) tx4edit!!:D--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/as I suffer RSI! 05:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
layout ok?--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI! 08:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
ithink headers not ok,"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":,"classes":}'>Reply
rel term-ok?--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/as I suffer RSI and thus cannot type very well! 08:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
def ok?G hits:many i/cn2,but al seem2point2tw content-wise>stl tw-tag?--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/as I suffer RSI and thus cannot type very well! 09:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
cmn-def:agree?or isit4th tone?tw-specific?[dunno how2look4that i/Gogl
=nobody answerd thedoor?pos?--史凡 - 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/as I suffer RSI and thus cannot type very well! 10:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
{{zh-attention}} tag to the entry. This will ensure that the entry is placed in Category:Chinese words needing attention. I periodically check that category, and fix entries as needed. Unfortunately, my time is limited, and I may not be able to get to each of your entries in a timely manner. However, as long as the word is in Category:Chinese words needing attention, I or someone else will eventually get to it. Thanks. -- A-cai 11:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Hi A-cai. I have created a new category for dealing with variant pronunciations. I decided to do this after compiling quite a large list (e.g. 勉强,一模一样, etc). Seeing as no other dictionary (to my knowledge) collects this kind of info, I think it would be very useful to have on wiktionary. I describe more about it in the category itself. Please let me know if there are any formatting issues. The first word I have added one for is 侮辱. Cheers. Tooironic 00:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
There isn't a template for "phrases", is there? How do I format this entry correctly? Tooironic 11:18, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
{{cmn-inter}} (interjection) might be more appropriate. However, I could be wrong. -- A-cai 16:23, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Can you help me come up with a way to format these correctly? I'm having trouble with the whole numbers thing. I figure you can sort them into pinyin quite easily for the ch-versions, but what about the tw-versions? Cheers! Tooironic 10:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems there is no "determiner" category for Mandarin... what do I do? Tooironic 11:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
we hav2GET RID OFthat SOP-FIXATION inE-dict's,n other1sBAD anyway.--史凡>voice-MSN/skypeme!RSI>typin=hard! 12:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
{{RFD}} or {{RFV}} template on it. In such cases, you would need to make your case on the appropriate page. -- A-cai 01:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Hey A-cai, is there a category for Mandarin loan words? (e.g. 卡拉OK, 粉絲, etc) Would be a great feature! Tooironic 00:50, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Help! I tried to create a Symbol category for this emoticon but failed miserably. Tooironic 12:22, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Not quite happy with this entry. Not sure if ellipsis like this is allowed, but not sure how else to do it without using 某人. We could just limit it to 身上 as some dictionaries do, but I think it would make the slang usage harder to search for. Thoughts? Tooironic 10:16, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
What's the consensus on capitalising the pinyin of proper nouns? It seems my capitalised entries have been in the minority, yet I've never seen them written in small caps before. Tooironic 11:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for harrasing you again. Just noticed while editing this entry that it appears in both the Beginner and Advanced Mandarin categories. Mistake? Tooironic 22:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Please note the audio file here is pronunced as yīnwéi, not yīnwèi as labelled. Tooironic 23:49, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
'dnt soundnatural tho,"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":,"classes":}'>Reply
Has wiktionary ever added information like measure words for Mandarin nouns? I attempted to add such information when I created the entry for 竖琴, please let me know what you think. Also, could you help me create a category for nouns with measure words? I think that would be really useful too. Cheers. Tooironic 07:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
eh-dosnt evrychin.noun take1?--史凡>voice-MSN/skypeme!RSI>typin=hard! 12:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai. Hekaheka, Anatoli and I are having a discussion about the proper punctuation for nested translations on my user page (User talk:Tooironic), could you please provide some enlightenment? Thanks, Tooironic 22:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Hiya. Can you please take a look at the mini-discussion at Category talk:Mandarin nouns and provide your esteemed opinion? Cheers, Tooironic 03:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
In Appendix:HSK list of Mandarin words/Elementary Mandarin I found "人民币 (民眾幣)". This has to be a mistake right? Tooironic 03:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Hey A-cai I was wondering if you could help me clean up zh-cn:Slang/zh-tw:Slang. When I first started beefing up this category I added every colloquial term I could. But now I realise that many of these would probably not be considered "slang" in the truest sense of the word. What other - more precise - categories could we put some of them in? I know there's also zh-cn:Colloquial, zh-cn:Dialectal, etc but I'm not sure what the real differences are between them. For example 的一比/的一米 is probably both slang and dialectal right? 福大命大造化大 is probably just colloquial. 没问题 a mere interjection, etc... Tooironic 04:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Hiya, do these new slang terms really mean nerd? My understanding was that they really described a homebody kind of person. Tooironic 06:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
What do you think of this entry I just created? I think it could be quite useful as many dictionaries don't list this as a word (because of the 了 obviously). And yet, it functions as one, and without the 了 the meaning would change entirely. Tooironic 05:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Pretty sure no other dictionary has this as a word, except my slang book I'm using as a reference. :) Not sure about the translation though - any ideas? Tooironic 23:52, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
The Min Nan definition there is all over the place. Tooironic 08:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Is it present practice to put entries in both their categories and their parent categories? E.g. 茄子 has been put under both "Foods" and "Vegetables" - oh, and "Fruits" too! Surely this is a bit overkill, at least with the "Foods" category - my impression was that this category was used when no other, more specific, category existed. Tooironic 09:33, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Me again. FYI, I added the simp to 臥室 and painstakingly reconfigured all the formatting. Do let me know if I've stuffed anything up. Thanks! Tooironic 12:39, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-Cai, FYI please note these new categories I've created: Category:zh-cn:Sweets/Category:zh-tw:Sweets & Category:zh-cn:Trademarks/Category:zh-tw:Trademarks, as exemplified in 三角巧克力. I'm thinking of moving the one entry from Category:zh-cn:Desserts/Category:zh-tw:Desserts into the Sweets category and deleting Desserts as IMO something can be a Sweet without it being a Dessert, but not vice versa. Thus Sweets would be a better, more encompassing title. Let me know what you reckon. Cheers. Tooironic 07:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I've seen: {{t|cmn|叩頭|sc=Hani}}, {{t|cmn|叩头|tr=kòutóu|sc=Hani}} and {{t|cmn|叩頭|sc=Hani|xs=Mandarin}}, {{t|cmn|叩头|tr=kòutóu|sc=Hani|xs=Mandarin}}, which is the standard formatting? Tooironic 08:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
{{Hani}}. The language script templates seem to ensure that the foreign language text is displayed correctly. The talk page recommends not adding the xs variable, which is added by a bot, as needed. The xs variable apparently helps the software to run faster. So, as a human, I would only add the sc variable. Thanks. -- A-cai 12:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)I've never heard of this idiom. I asked half a dozen mainland Chinese and they have never heard of it either. Is it a Taiwanese expression? Tooironic 07:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I know you think the Dialectal tag is a bit unambiguous, but I'm starting to think it might be OK for expressions like these for which etymologies are a bit murky. I asked a number of Chinese friends about this term and most just say "it's 北方的". I then Baidu'd () it, and got the same result. Perhaps something like a "Northern Chinese dialect" category is needed - what do you think? Tooironic 12:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
As per our discussions for 不咋的 and 回家吃自己 I think it would be useful to create new categories for Chinese words and expressions particular to different parts of the Chinese-speaking world. I propose they be named thus:
Of course some of these may never get any entries - I have merely tried to include as many as I can for the sake of completeness. Note also that these would apply only to Mandarin entries, not entries for other dialects. (Similar to American English, British English, etc.) I'm not sure what the parent category might be - "Regional Chinese" perhaps? Or maybe no parent category at all? Any ideas? Suggestions? Objections? Tooironic 22:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
See 万万; no Cardinal number template? Tooironic 00:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey I'd really appreciate it if you could add IPA for these to help users distinguish between jiāoxué and jiàoxué. I would do it myself but I lack the prerequisite talent! Thanks heaps. Tooironic 01:18, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-Cai. I just finished a new guide for wiktionary entitled How to Create a Basic Chinese Entry. Questions and comments welcome! Tooironic 01:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
What do you think about this category I just created? I was inspired by Category:English nouns ending in "-ism". I think categories like this for suffixes could be useful, however I'm not sure if I should leave the wording as is or have different categories for Simp and Trad forms. What you reckon? Tooironic 11:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Not sure if this is considered a "particle" or not? Is that the best PoS to allocate it? Tooironic 15:10, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi, did I differentiate the two verb pronunciations properly, formatting wise ("Verb 1", "Verb 2")? Also, if you could type out IPAs for them that would be fantastic. Tooironic 15:51, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Can you tell me why, when you click on this entry, the title up the top comes up with 拉麵 not 拉麵? Weird. Tooironic 09:20, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd appreciate your thoughts on Wiktionary:Beer parlour#Chinese categories. Thanks. --Bequw → ¢ • τ 21:59, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Hey A-cai, would love your contribution to the 'Toneless pinyin' discussion at the Beer Parlour. Cheers. Tooironic 21:50, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
What you think of these entries I created? Do they qualify as "proverbs"? I wasn't sure what to put them under. The English equivalent, eeny, meeny, miny, moe, is a "Noun", whilst the Finnish, French and Italian equivalents put them under "Phrase". Tooironic 22:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I was so proud of my 救生 entries that I decided to use a Derived terms template - is this allowed for non-English entries I wonder? It's pretty! Tooironic 05:23, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Do we presently include -地 adverbs (e.g. 安靜地, 急忙地, etc)? Or are they considered some-of-parts like -的 entries? Tooironic 05:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Can you please add IPA for both méiguī and méigui pronunciations? Cheers. Tooironic 03:08, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
If you check out my Userpage you can see a list of Chinese anagrams / switch-around words I've compiled. I'm thinking they could be useful as a kind of note for learners, you know, something along the lines of: "not to be confused with:...". Some good examples are 到達/達到, 人工/工人, 往來/來往, etc. Not sure what the title of the header should be though - Anagrams? See also? Or maybe just a See also line up the top of the page? What do you think? Tooironic 08:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
达伟 (talk • contribs), probably needs to be taught formatting and templates and whatnot. L☺g☺maniac ☃ 16:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
Your opinion of Wiktionary:Votes/2009-12/Chinese categories would help many (including myself) to know if the proposed changes are agreeable to the primary Chinese contributors. Though you appeared to support it in the BP, I don't want to put words in your mouth:) --Bequw → ¢ • τ 01:26, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Please check out 對了 and 有了. Not sure if I've formatted the category correctly here. I figured they deserved one because 了-words are so rare and thus noteworthy. Tooironic 12:07, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to cram the section "Categories:" at entries with various "in simplified script" repeatedly? If that kind of information is necessary, a CatScan may be made in, for instance, both Category:Min Nan in simplified script and Category:nan:Birds. --Daniel. 17:04, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Under 巴, its radical is listed as 龞. Is this a mistake? Tooironic 11:40, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi A-cai, the vandal seems to have also hit Index:Chinese_radical/龞 and Index:Chinese_radical with the turtle radical vandalism, perhaps other pages as well. I don't know enough to know if this isn't a real radical so will leave the repair up to you. 24.29.228.33 00:48, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
I think you've confused this word's meaning with 音譯. To my knowledge, transliteration involves transferring the sounds of words into similar sounds in the target language. But 字譯 refers to translating the components of words, phrases, sentences, etc in a literal fashion. I've ammended this definition accordingly. Tooironic 05:28, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, is 应弦而倒 a saying we should make an entry for? 24.29.228.33 00:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I don't have enough knowledge to make this one, so I'll add it at Requested Entries. 24.29.228.33 02:19, 30 December 2009 (UTC)