User talk:Sgconlaw/Archive 2020–2024
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2020
Changing .wav audio files to .oga
I have noticed that you have often taken a wav audio file and re-uploaded as an oga with a nice standard filename, example.
Is there a fast way that you do that?
I want to use Lingua Libre but it spits out yucky filenames to Commons, example.--Commander Keane (talk) 05:29, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Commander Keane: thanks for your work in producing audio pronunciation files! I'm afraid I have been doing the re-uploading manually, because I'm not aware of any tool that automates the process. Audio files need to be in one of several standard formats to appear properly in the Word of the Day templates. I haven't used Lingua Libre before – is it not possible to manually specify a filename? — SGconlaw (talk) 07:11, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I asked about the filename here.--Commander Keane (talk) 07:44, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps suggest that users be allowed to specify their own filenames (for example, to be in line with file naming policies at the Wikimedia Commons), and if the file already exists then users can be prompted to use the default name or enter a different name. You may also wish to point out that according to Commons policy pronunciation files are supposed to have a certain format, and that format has to be used for templates at the Wiktionary to be able to use the files efficiently. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:50, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- (or just allow the wotd templates to accept wav files and avoid reuploading and file name debates...? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 19:34, 22 January 2020 (UTC))
- @Suzukaze-c: there's too much variation in the format of Lingua Libre filenames to enable them to be hard-coded into the template. The alternative is to manually specify the audio file names in the
{{WOTD}}template. This can be done; it's just less convenient. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:02, 22 January 2020 (UTC)- @Suzukaze-c, Sgconlaw: would en.wiktionary be ok with the filenames generated by Lingua Libre? I think fr.wiktionary accepts them.--Commander Keane (talk) 01:52, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw: Surely specifying the wav file is easier than reuploading the file? (And we put less burden on the Commons servers creating duplicate files motivated by this arbitrary dislike of LL filenames.)
- @Commander Keane: ? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 02:34, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
- Not entirely arbitrary; Lingua Libre was not designed to fit the pre-existing file-naming format for audio pronunciation files at the Commons and so ignores it, and also does not add such files to proper categories such as “Category:British English pronunciation”. But, as I said, the WOTD templates have been written to allow for audio files to be manually specified if necessary. Let me think about whether that’s a better way to proceed. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:13, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Suzukaze-c, Sgconlaw: would en.wiktionary be ok with the filenames generated by Lingua Libre? I think fr.wiktionary accepts them.--Commander Keane (talk) 01:52, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Suzukaze-c: there's too much variation in the format of Lingua Libre filenames to enable them to be hard-coded into the template. The alternative is to manually specify the audio file names in the
- (or just allow the wotd templates to accept wav files and avoid reuploading and file name debates...? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 19:34, 22 January 2020 (UTC))
- Perhaps suggest that users be allowed to specify their own filenames (for example, to be in line with file naming policies at the Wikimedia Commons), and if the file already exists then users can be prompted to use the default name or enter a different name. You may also wish to point out that according to Commons policy pronunciation files are supposed to have a certain format, and that format has to be used for templates at the Wiktionary to be able to use the files efficiently. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:50, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- I asked about the filename here.--Commander Keane (talk) 07:44, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Wiktionary:Beer parlour.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Timon.
audio files in WOTD
I noticed that some WOTDs have an audio, others don't. It is weird. Nowhere on the page Wiktionary:Word of the day/2020/February 12 can I find a link to the audio, but an audio appears on Wiktionary:Word of the day/2020/February 12. Also, I just made an audio for hypocorism and want to include it on Wiktionary:Word of the day/2020/February 14. How would that be done? --AcpoKrane (talk) 14:25, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- Same goes for Wiktionary:Word of the day/2020/March 21 (no audio link) and clamber (audio link). --AcpoKrane (talk) 14:27, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- @AcpoKrane: audio pronunciation files need to be in one of a number of standard file naming formats such as
En-uk-.ogato be picked up automatically by the{{WOTD}}template. For a full list of supported formats, see the|audio=parameter on the template documentation page. If you don't wish to create a file in one of the supported formats (which I'd prefer), then you have to manually specify the audio filename using the|audio=parameter in{{WOTD}}. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2020 (UTC)- OK, I see. I updated the pages. As for the creation of the file in one of the supported formats, I understand that it would be preferable. However, I'm going with the format used by Lingualibre, because it allows audios to be uploaded reasonably fast and efficiently. --AcpoKrane (talk) 18:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:36, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- OK, I see. I updated the pages. As for the creation of the file in one of the supported formats, I understand that it would be preferable. However, I'm going with the format used by Lingualibre, because it allows audios to be uploaded reasonably fast and efficiently. --AcpoKrane (talk) 18:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
- @AcpoKrane: audio pronunciation files need to be in one of a number of standard file naming formats such as
Wikipedia translation
Inspired by herd immunity, I'd like to caution against exclusively relying on Wikipedia when adding translations. Wikipedians often use rare, made-up protologisms. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 18:39, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, OK. Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:48, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Please add a maintenance line in {{RQ:Milton Paradise Lost}} for mandatory parameters.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Milton Paradise Lost.
Ellipsis notation
Hello. Look at this: . I'm not quite sure what you were saying. Using the Wiktionary ellipsis means that any automatic/machine process can identify automatically "this is some skipped text", whereas just putting a dot inside square brackets means nothing, and looks like they actually wrote a dot inside brackets, which is wrong. Can you clarify? Equinox ◑ 11:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how automatic processes work in which case please elucidate, but why does a machine process need to have a template to recognize ""? Can it not identify that text string? Also, under what circumstances would a machine process need to recognize ""? At the moment, using
{{...}}or{{nb...}}just to generate "" seem like an unnecessary transclusion of a template. Why not reserve the use of those templates for situations when it is actually desired to use the tooltip feature of the templates, like this:{{...|Some text that doesn't need to be displayed}}? — SGconlaw (talk) 12:15, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
- Firstly I would like you to drop the "tooltip" idea since (as far as I know) a tooltip is a pop-up text that describes a button etc. in a user interface. Using the {{...}} is not about "tooltips" and is not primarily about enhancing the user experience in the browser. To simplify my typing I will now refer to {{...}} as ELLIPSIS and as DOTS. To answer your questions: we could recognise DOTS, but the Wiktionary convention that was agreed upon was to use ELLIPSIS, so you are breaking the rules, and hurting bot work, by refusing to use the agreed standard. "Under what circumstances would we need to recognise": when we are sorting, searching and filtering our entries by machine, perhaps in ways we haven't dreamed up yet, but it's important to be able to tell "some missing text" apart from "maybe someone actually typed DOTS": again, standards are important, and that's why we agreed them. Regarding transclusions/techy issues, I really don't care, but clearly we are going to optimise the code around AGREED forms like ELLIPSIS and not around non-standard forms like DOTS. It annoys me that you are apparently refusing to follow standards through sheer bloody-mindedness so I will raise this on WT:TR; let's continue talking there. Equinox ◑ 12:25, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
- Sure, let's talk there. Also, do let me know where this convention is noted, as I've not come across it before. — SGconlaw (talk) 13:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
- Firstly I would like you to drop the "tooltip" idea since (as far as I know) a tooltip is a pop-up text that describes a button etc. in a user interface. Using the {{...}} is not about "tooltips" and is not primarily about enhancing the user experience in the browser. To simplify my typing I will now refer to {{...}} as ELLIPSIS and as DOTS. To answer your questions: we could recognise DOTS, but the Wiktionary convention that was agreed upon was to use ELLIPSIS, so you are breaking the rules, and hurting bot work, by refusing to use the agreed standard. "Under what circumstances would we need to recognise": when we are sorting, searching and filtering our entries by machine, perhaps in ways we haven't dreamed up yet, but it's important to be able to tell "some missing text" apart from "maybe someone actually typed DOTS": again, standards are important, and that's why we agreed them. Regarding transclusions/techy issues, I really don't care, but clearly we are going to optimise the code around AGREED forms like ELLIPSIS and not around non-standard forms like DOTS. It annoys me that you are apparently refusing to follow standards through sheer bloody-mindedness so I will raise this on WT:TR; let's continue talking there. Equinox ◑ 12:25, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Swift Gulliver.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Beaumont Fletcher Comedies and Tragedies.
Audios
So you know, I am not going to be adding any more audios to the Wikimedia project. I mean, like, never ever. --Nueva normalidad (talk) 21:47, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Nueva normalidad: ah, OK. Thanks for all your help! — SGconlaw (talk) 21:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Locke Human Understanding.
Browne's quotes are all dated, except for three of them: accubation, cholical and tabidly, which I weren't sure of. I'm considering my Browne work completed. --Nueva normalidad (talk) 17:04, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Offlne
Hi, I'm taking this discussion off the Grease Pit as the primary maintenance request has been dealt with already (and thanks again for that!).
To answer your last question: basically the Kiwix scraper takes a snapshot of the website's HTML at time T and turns it into a static file (ie it's not mediawiki-based anymore). I don't think that the solution you envision using magic words would work because there is no way for the zim format to generate "new" entries on the fly. For instance, we cannot display categories (there's an ongoign project for us to generate and hardwrite their content before compression). But as I said I've never put my hands in mwoffliner myself: I have therefore asked folks what their thoughts are and I will return with more details if someone can figure out a workaround (even a theoretical one). The other Kiwix guy (talk) 11:36, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- @The other Kiwix guy: ah, I see. Yes, I think the WOTD idea wouldn’t work unless there was some way for the offline program to figure out what the date is when the Main Page is viewed. Anyway, let me know when you find out. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
The Deluge of Deucalion
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Dryden Metamorphoses.
Note the Wikipedia article on "Fictional universe", which offers as an example the Victorian England of Sherlock Holmes. bd2412 T 17:13, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
- @BD2412: yup, that's what I think the term means. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:14, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Dryden Georgics.
Pronunciation parentheticals
As you know, I've added a lot of pronunciations lately. I'm a Midwesterner, so my accent is General American. I see that some instances of pronunciations that I've added are marked |Audio (US)= and some |Audio (GA)=. I think the latter is preferable considering the diversity of American accents. Similarly, RP is very different from a Glaswegian or Scouse pronunciation, so putting "(UK)" really obfuscates exactly what you're hearing in the audio. Do you have thoughts on this? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:32, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Koavf: yes, I recall reading somewhere that “UK” and “US” should be avoided as it’s inaccurate to say that a particular pronunciation is typical of the whole country. “RP” and “GA” are preferred. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good deal. And I think "(UK)" is fine if you don't have anything more specific--e.g. I can't personally distinguish all the British accents. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Most of the ones added to WOTDs of late have been RP, as far as I can tell. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Always. Sometimes Australian as well and I am adding GA. Unfortunate that we have so few pronunciations. :/ But that gives us something to do, I suppose. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Most of the ones added to WOTDs of late have been RP, as far as I can tell. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good deal. And I think "(UK)" is fine if you don't have anything more specific--e.g. I can't personally distinguish all the British accents. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:51, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Dude, I did it. I dated all of Category:Requests for date/Dryden. Today was the most intense day of my life, Wiktionarically speaking. OK, I left a few templates without dates, but Dryden is dead to me now. --CasiObsoleto (talk) 23:16, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- And it is a shame to do this every time (every fucking week?), but I have to request a short block. I will undertake my traditional vandalism spree after posting this comment too. --CasiObsoleto (talk) 23:18, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- @CasiObsoleto: just ask if you want to be blocked. No need to make a mess while you’re at it. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:40, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
The current version of this template's display is short, but also remarkably ugly. It includes the printer, which seems unnecessary and is unexplained, and multiple (!) ellipses. Surely there is a better way of presenting this. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:49, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: it is standard bibliographic practice to indicate the name of the publisher of a work, or if that is unknown the name of the printer, so why is that unnecessary and unexplained? As for the ellipses, if one is using a mouse and brings the cursor over the ellipses, tooltips showing the hidden information are shown. — SGconlaw (talk) 03:32, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- To be honest, I had to click through to the WP article to see that he was a printer, and I didn't even notice the tooltips. I am perfectly willing to let this go and conclude that I'm just being dumb, but it does make one wonder how many readers are going to pick up on something a regular editor doesn't notice. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:40, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: well, previously there might have been some clarifying words like “printed by” or “publisher” but we just voted against this … Do we need an appendix or guide on citations? Is that something users would find helpful? — SGconlaw (talk) 03:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- As for the vote, it's true that it took out "printed by", but I was never convinced of the utility of including the printer to begin with, which surely puts me at odds with dedicated bibliographers. The vote didn't recommend stuffing more information in tooltips, but it didn't ban it either. An appendix seems thoroughly useless, given that nobody would actually look at it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:56, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Well, if I wonder about some feature of a dictionary I usually start hunting around for a page with abbreviations or explanatory notes, but OK. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:02, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- As for the vote, it's true that it took out "printed by", but I was never convinced of the utility of including the printer to begin with, which surely puts me at odds with dedicated bibliographers. The vote didn't recommend stuffing more information in tooltips, but it didn't ban it either. An appendix seems thoroughly useless, given that nobody would actually look at it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:56, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Metaknowledge: well, previously there might have been some clarifying words like “printed by” or “publisher” but we just voted against this … Do we need an appendix or guide on citations? Is that something users would find helpful? — SGconlaw (talk) 03:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- To be honest, I had to click through to the WP article to see that he was a printer, and I didn't even notice the tooltips. I am perfectly willing to let this go and conclude that I'm just being dumb, but it does make one wonder how many readers are going to pick up on something a regular editor doesn't notice. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:40, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Dryden Virgil.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Thomson Seasons.
Hey. Here's a quote for revert from James Thomson apparently from Spring, but not in this version. I'm leaving this one for you, as the faffy Template:RQ:Thomson Seasons has probably got to be used. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 16:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- The tumbling stream / Reverted, plays in undulating flow.
- Resolved. Was actually real easy, not sure how I didn't see it first time --Kriss Barnes (talk) 00:24, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Also, I probably screwed up the Hudibras quote at tip. I'm gonna make a simpler version of that template too, probably called Template:RQ:Butler Hud --Kriss Barnes (talk) 16:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Chapters
Where chapters are specified in templates, they currently produce something like "Chapter x, in ", which is crazy and no one does that. It should produce ", chapter x, …". Maybe it comes from treating chapters in a normal book the same as, e.g., individual titled essays in an anthology of different authors. Ƿidsiþ 13:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Widsith: I have to say that I have not encountered a formatting where the chapter appears after the title. See, for example, w:Template:Cite book and the Chicago Manual of Style. Also, it seems an unnecessary level of complexity to have the chapters before the title in the case of a collection of works by different authors, and after the title if a book is by a single author. — SGconlaw (talk) 14:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- This really only supports my point, since the whole idea of the Chicago style is to cite chapters only when they are by contributors to part of an edited book. Then, of course, you cite an individual author and their essay title before the editor and title of the book as a whole. No one, as far as I know, cites the name of a chapter in a regular novel or nonfiction work, and if they do they will not say "in Title". You would work backwards from large to small – book title, chapter, page number. Ƿidsiþ 16:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- Seems like I read the Chicago Manual of Style incorrectly; I'm not familiar with it and it doesn't actually give an example of a chapter in a book by a single author. I'm more familiar with British citation styles and have not seen one where the chapter appears after the title. Also, the point about the template being rather complicated if the position of the chapter has to change remains. I believe the reference templates here were based on the ones at Wikipedia. Anyway, if you wish to ask for it to be altered, I won't object. You'll have to ask @Benwing2 to assist; the quotation metatemplate has been converted to Lua and that is beyond me at the moment. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:08, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Widsith If you can give me some examples of quotation templates with specific arguments and what they currently look like and should look like, I can look into fixing the module code. Benwing2 (talk) 18:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: on an unrelated matter, while you're looking into the quotation metatemplate, perhaps you could also look into moving
|translator=, if stated, before the author's name. I think this is a request that has been made before. Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)- @Sgconlaw Apologies if you asked before; I get various requests and sometimes they get lost in the shuffle. Can you give me an example of a template that puts the translator after the author's name and how it should look, or point me to the previous discussion? Benwing2 (talk) 18:39, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: on an unrelated matter, while you're looking into the quotation metatemplate, perhaps you could also look into moving
- Yes I am more familiar with British style as well (being British and writing professionally for 20 years). The problem is that it is not very common to cite a chapter title in a book by one author; however, there was no consensus in the recent vote to remove such detail, so we have to distinguish such cases from contributions in edited books. The point is that there is a big difference between
- 2002, Chris Jones, “The Vindications and their political traditions”, in Claudia L. Johnson, editor, The Cambridge Companion to Mary Wollstonecraft, Cambridge University Press, page 42:
- Wollstonexraft joined a circle rich in adversarial political experience.
- …where it is absolutely necessary and normal that the "chapter" (which is an individual contribution) and its author be listed before the main book title and editor; and:
- 1813 January 27, , chapter III, in Pride and Prejudice: , volume I, London: ">…] for T Egerton, , →OCLC:
- …which is not normal and looks bizarre, especially because of the "in". Here the chapter "title", if used at all, should come in order after the volume and before the page number. Unfortunately it seems like they both use the "chapter=" argument, so @Benwing2 I'm not sure how this could be resolved! However I have little idea of how the coding works so maybe there are solutions.
- (Incidentally, on the translation issue, I agree with Sgconlaw that the translator must be listed first: in, e.g.,
{{RQ:Florio Montaigne Essayes}}, it looks like we are citing Montaigne, but we're citing Florio's English and he should be listed first. Same goes for all such templates.) Sorry for the length of this comment, hopefully it more or less makes sense. Ƿidsiþ 05:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)- @Widsith There's no problem resolving this issue because the code that processes the chapter= param can look at other params. So for example it can do one thing if there's an editor= specified and another thing if there isn't. I just need to know what the results *should* look like. Can you format up some examples of (a) what for example the
{{RQ:Austen Pride and Prejudice|I|III}}call *should* look like with the chapter moved, and (b) what{{RQ:Florio Montaigne Essayes}}*should* look like with the translator moved. Otherwise I'm not very sure what end I'm aiming for. Benwing2 (talk) 06:08, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Widsith There's no problem resolving this issue because the code that processes the chapter= param can look at other params. So for example it can do one thing if there's an editor= specified and another thing if there isn't. I just need to know what the results *should* look like. Can you format up some examples of (a) what for example the
- OK, keeping other changes minimal, these two should look as follows: Ƿidsiþ 06:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
- 1813, , Pride and Prejudice, London: Thomas Egerton, Volume I, chapter III, page 42:
- 1603, John Florio, transl. Michel de Montaigne, Essayes, London: Edward Blount:
- The example with the translator looks fine. As for moving the chapter name or number, how is the template to distinguish between that situation and the situation of a chapter in a collected work (where you agree that the chapter should continue to appear in its current position)? Also, volume should continue to remain uncapitalized, I think. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:10, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
- I have no idea! but Benwing2 seems to think it's possible. Not bothered about capitalisation or otherwise of "volume". Ƿidsiþ 10:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Widsith If you can give me some examples of quotation templates with specific arguments and what they currently look like and should look like, I can look into fixing the module code. Benwing2 (talk) 18:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- Seems like I read the Chicago Manual of Style incorrectly; I'm not familiar with it and it doesn't actually give an example of a chapter in a book by a single author. I'm more familiar with British citation styles and have not seen one where the chapter appears after the title. Also, the point about the template being rather complicated if the position of the chapter has to change remains. I believe the reference templates here were based on the ones at Wikipedia. Anyway, if you wish to ask for it to be altered, I won't object. You'll have to ask @Benwing2 to assist; the quotation metatemplate has been converted to Lua and that is beyond me at the moment. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:08, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- This really only supports my point, since the whole idea of the Chicago style is to cite chapters only when they are by contributors to part of an edited book. Then, of course, you cite an individual author and their essay title before the editor and title of the book as a whole. No one, as far as I know, cites the name of a chapter in a regular novel or nonfiction work, and if they do they will not say "in Title". You would work backwards from large to small – book title, chapter, page number. Ƿidsiþ 16:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
{{cite-book}} trouble
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:sga:TBC.
Coleridge's notes
Hey. As you may have seen, I've been attacking Coleridge quotes, which has been the most unrewarding thing I've done in my whole life. Lots of the quotes come from his "notes", and they are all templated and can be found on this page. Firstly, I'd like to ask you your opinion on how crappy his notes are as citations (IMO, generally extremely crappy). Secondly, if you feel it is worth making a more Sgconlaw-esque template (i.e. one too complicated for me to understand). I kinda want to do away with all quotations that are his mere notes scribbled in a notebook, but keep anything published during his lifetime. --Kriss Barnes (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Kriss Barnes: I assume the notes were published somewhere? Have you managed to find a source? Hard for me to judge whether the quotations from the notes are "crappy" or not without a lot of clicks – maybe you can highlight a few entries. The one or two I looked at seemed to be either the only quotation, or one of a small number, on the entry page, so it would not be a good idea to remove those quotations without replacing them with something else. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
- I think they were published in "Literary Remains" --Kriss Barnes (talk) 18:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Hymn to Apollo 1 and 2
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Prior Poetical Works.
- Discussion moved to Talk:mixen.
fermentation from Kingsley
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Kingsley Hypatia.
Another one I couldn't find a date for... Walter Scott's Hunting Song --Quotedude56 (talk) 21:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
Imaginary Conversations template
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Landor Imaginary Conversations.
- Discussion moved to Talk:chaperome.
- Discussion moved to Talk:exemplary.
- Discussion moved to Talk:event.
dating Spenser
Hey. I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life (probably not so long...) to emptying Category:Requests for date/Edmund Spenser. I haven't been able to find a good website for easy searching of the original Faerie Queen, however, so it hasn't been as fast as I want. You know of a good place to search? What I really need is something like https://www.shakespeareswords.com --Java Beauty (talk) 20:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
Fiddling with quote templates
Not sure if you've been asked this before, but I'll ask anyhow. Would it be possible to fiddle with {{quote-book}} (or {{temp|quote-meta}]???) to categorize entries by author, so carmagnole would go into Category:Requests for date/Charles Compton Reade. --Java Beauty (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Marlowe Jew of Malta.
Template:WOTD
Hello Sgconlaw, I was wondering if you could help me build a similar template like {{WOTD}} at the sw.wiktionary or otherwise help me style up the main page. Thank you (please ping me on reply) --Synoman Barris (talk) 08:01, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Synoman Barris: sure. What would you like to call the template? Then we can copy a version of
{{WOTD}}over to sw.wiktionary and start working on it. — SGconlaw (talk) 09:12, 3 October 2020 (UTC)- Thanks, I would like to call it Template:NLS maybe from the Swahili translation “Neno la Siku”. Other templates that are necessary in maintaining a dictionary may also be useful over there. Cheers --Synoman Barris (talk) 10:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Synoman Barris: well, apart from transferring
{{WOTD}}over to sw.wiktionary, there will be quite a few pages and templates that will need to be created or edited to get a Word of the Day project working, so let's start slow and see how it goes. — SGconlaw (talk) 10:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)- Okay, so when do we start? --Synoman Barris (talk) 11:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Synoman Barris: why don't you start by creating Swahili versions of "Wiktionary:Word of the day" and "Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations", and I will look into the templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- On it! Cheers --Synoman Barris (talk) 14:06, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Synoman Barris: why don't you start by creating Swahili versions of "Wiktionary:Word of the day" and "Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations", and I will look into the templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Okay, so when do we start? --Synoman Barris (talk) 11:26, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Synoman Barris: well, apart from transferring
- Thanks, I would like to call it Template:NLS maybe from the Swahili translation “Neno la Siku”. Other templates that are necessary in maintaining a dictionary may also be useful over there. Cheers --Synoman Barris (talk) 10:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
audio
Yeah, I did a bunch more audio. A handful of easy ones appeared in the to-do list. --Daleusher (talk) 19:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Daleusher: thank you! — SGconlaw (talk) 19:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Drayton Poly-Olbion.
Hiding User Names
When you're hiding user names, don't forget to hide the edit summary of your revert, since the rollback tool always gives the account name of the user who made the reverted edit. You can do that even when your revert is the current edit. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:26, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for the tip! — SGconlaw (talk) 05:28, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Looking at our entry slantindicular, the date is given as 1842 December 1, although nobody added the 1. That's probably a bug in the template, and you are the oly one skilled enough to fix it. Candle-holding servant (talk) 22:01, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Candle-holding servant: the
|date=parameter cannot take just a month and year;|month=and|year=have to be used instead. This isn’t a bug in{{quote-book}}; it’s just how wikitext’s {{#time}} function works. — SGconlaw (talk) 22:20, 25 October 2020 (UTC)- A'ight, sweet. Fixed Candle-holding servant (talk) 22:28, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Beaumont Fletcher Comedies and Tragedies.
Gobies
Just FYI, there's a difference between the the perciform suborder Gobioidei (aka the order Gobiiformes) and the cyprinid subfamily Gobioninae. The type genus of the first is Gobius (apparently a second declension Latin noun) and the type genus of the second is Gobio (apparently a third declension Latin noun). Just to reinforce the difference, Gobius belongs to the subfamily Gobiinae of the family Gobiidae.
This may seem trivial to you, but I was actually shocked to discover that our category system had Category:en:Gobies as a subcategory of Category:en:Cyprinids. Gobies are primarily marine fish, while gudgeons are freshwater fish related to minnows and goldfish. No one who knows anything about the actual fish would confuse the two.
Please don't make changes to the hierarchy of our taxonomically-based set categories unless you're quite familiar with the taxonomy of the organisms involved. Whenever I make such changes, I spend some time reading up on the taxa involved and the groups they belong to. With DNA information becoming widely available in recent decades, the taxonomy of just about everything is changing radically, so I don't trust my personal knowledge on the subject. You should be even more careful.
Feel free to ask me about anything related to taxonomy. I'm not an expert, but I know how and where to look things up. @Metaknowledge knows far more about aquatic organisms than I do, but I don't want to volunteer them for anything without asking first. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 04:06, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: oops, I see where I went wrong. I thought "Category:Gobies" was in the entry gudgeon because the goby is another name for the gudgeon, but it seems that the reason why that category was there is because gudgeon is also a name for fish of the family Eleotridae, which are called sleeper gobies. Looking at "w:Goby", it seems that this is an imprecise word that can be used to refer to fish from a number of different orders, which is presumably why "Category:Gobies" has "Category:Fish" as a parent category rather than a specific order. If that's the case, is it a good idea to even have "Category:Gobies"? — SGconlaw (talk) 11:24, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Very few vernacular names, except for some lengthy, artificial-seeming terms are precise. Taxonomic names may be somewhat volatile, but they are relatively precise. DCDuring (talk) 12:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Stone Fruits
Your change to the category description for Category:Stone fruits was technically correct, since anything with a drupe can indeed be so described. However, when someone refers to "the stone fruits" as a group, they're almost always referring to plants in the genus Prunus, as evidenced by this Google search, and this book. I've edited the entry at stone fruit to reflect that. If you think about it, no one who looks up plum is more likely to want to know about ivy, and walnuts than cherries and apricots.
I should preemptively ask that you not change the description of Category:Berries, although under the botanical definition blackberries, strawberries, mulberries and perhaps the majority of what are now in Category:en:Berries are not berries, but pumpkins and bananas are. Likewise, apples and strawberries aren't fruits, but apple cores and the seeds on the surface of the strawberry, along with sunflower seeds and kernels of corn/maize, are.
Sarcasm aside, if you want to change a category description in a way that will substantially alter its membership, bring it up at some place like the Beer parlour so it can be discussed. What you did is akin to reorganizing an entry without changing the translation tables. Granted, there's lots of overlap in this case, but it's still bad practice.
I've created Category:Prunus genus plants to avoid the ambiguity and to cover things like cherry blossom that aren't stone fruits in your sense. I've created/named literally hundreds of such categories, but this was not one of my better ones- so I decided it was better to avoid a dispute and fork off my own category. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:26, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:furibund.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Kyd Edward 3.
Subtle
- Discussion moved to Talk:subtle.
Edit protection and move protection
Hey, do you usually protect WOTD pages against editing and moving by IPs? I didn't see any protection on recent WOTDs and soon to be featured WOTDs. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 17:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
- I recall @Chuck Entz updated our abuse filters, so that's now unnecessary. I only temporarily protect the entries themselves (if I remember to do so). — SGconlaw (talk) 17:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
- What exactly does the abuse filter do? Does it prevent edits by IPs and new users to WOTDs or does it flag such edits?
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 18:10, 1 December 2020 (UTC)- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: the discussion is at "Wiktionary:Grease pit/2020/June#WOTD and FWOTD Abuse Filter". I think it prevents edits from being saved, but you'll have to ask Chuck for details. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you!
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 18:20, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you!
- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: the discussion is at "Wiktionary:Grease pit/2020/June#WOTD and FWOTD Abuse Filter". I think it prevents edits from being saved, but you'll have to ask Chuck for details. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
- What exactly does the abuse filter do? Does it prevent edits by IPs and new users to WOTDs or does it flag such edits?
Extracting quotes
Hello. I wanted to know how you do the job of extracting quotes from Google Books or any other similar online sources. In most cases, it is not possible to copy the needed text for want of such an option. So I am forced to just manually type them, trusting to my memory. Obviously I do verify the typed text, but the whole process is not only tiresome but also kills valuable time; this also reduces efficiency in that one could have added more quotes but for the manual job. Thus, if you employ some other method, please let me know that! Thank you. — inqilābī ‹inqilāb·zinda·bād› 09:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Inqilābī: well, until recently I just used to have two tabs open on my browser, one with the source text from Google Books/the Internet Archive/the HathiTrust Digital Library, and the other with the Wiktionary. I then looked at the passage in one tab and retyped it in the other tab a portion at a time. I'm afraid it wasn't more sophisticated than that. Recently, I found an app that allows me to hook up my tablet device to my laptop and use it as a second screen, which then allows me to do the retyping more easily as I no longer have to switch between tabs. What you could do is either to use a two-screen setup, or perhaps to set up two side-by-side windows on your computer (though I tried that and didn't like it because each window was rather narrow). — SGconlaw (talk) 09:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- Okay, noted, and thanks! So I see, howsoever we do it, we cannot avoid typing anyway. However, let's also see if @Equinox has got any other tip. — inqilābī ‹inqilāb·zinda·bād› 10:06, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Inqilābī: oh, one more thing – if you are using Google Books, you can sometimes copy and paste parts of a passage from the search results. This also works to a more limited degree for the Internet Archive and the HathiTrust Digital Library, but in all cases you have to check the pasted text against the actual PDF text as the OCR is frequently inaccurate. — SGconlaw (talk) 10:11, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- Okay, noted, and thanks! So I see, howsoever we do it, we cannot avoid typing anyway. However, let's also see if @Equinox has got any other tip. — inqilābī ‹inqilāb·zinda·bād› 10:06, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:Magi.
WOTD audios
So you know, all of the old WOTDs now have audio (except multiworders). I am a hero Kilo Lima Mike (talk) 21:27, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Kilo Lima Mike:
thanks! Oh, but note "commons:File talk:LL-Q1860 (eng)-Vealhurl-canaigre.wav". — SGconlaw (talk) 21:29, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
- Probably better now. Kilo Lima Mike (talk) 21:38, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
Position of synonyms
See {{syn}}: “after any usage examples or quotes”. J3133 (talk) 20:05, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- @J3133: I should think that "WT:EL", being policy, trumps
{{synonyms}}. In any case, I feel it makes more sense for semantic relations to appear immediately after definitions, otherwise they risk being separated from the definitions by quotations and missed entirely. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)- @Sgconlaw: I have added a note at the documentation. J3133 (talk) 20:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- @J3133: OK, thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:48, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw: I have added a note at the documentation. J3133 (talk) 20:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Template:RQ:Dryden Canace to Macareus
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Ovid Epistles.
2021
Question
What does “2020–2014” mean in the title of Archive 2020–2014 (the page contains 2020 discussions, although “2014” is also in the title of 2014–2019)? J3133 (talk) 17:50, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
- Oops, typo on my part. It's supposed to say 2020–2024! Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
outcant and Pope's Donne
- Discussion moved to Talk:outcant.
- Discussion moved to Talk:volley.
Trains Illustrated
Trains Illustrated was renamed Modern Railways from the January 1962 issue. The publisher was, at that time, Ian Allan Ltd, with the address at Craven House, Hampton Court, Surrey. The editor then was G. Freeman Allen (note the difference in spelling). The business later moved to Shepperton, a few miles away. Ian Allan died a few years ago, but Modern Railways is still published, but under new ownership. DonnanZ (talk) 18:10, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Donnanz: mmmm, OK? Not entirely sure what you're driving at, I'm afraid. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- I noticed your edits to the quotes I added to fogman and draw a veil over, and I thought you might appreciate some background information. I first bought a copy of Modern Railways in 1963 (or was it 1964?). DonnanZ (talk) 18:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Donnanz: ah, OK. Thanks. Yes, I noticed you make quite a number of edits to rail-related entries! You've probably just been notified that one of your nominations, bogie, is appearing as WOTD on 16 January 2021. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- I noticed your edits to the quotes I added to fogman and draw a veil over, and I thought you might appreciate some background information. I first bought a copy of Modern Railways in 1963 (or was it 1964?). DonnanZ (talk) 18:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Template:RQ:BFCT again
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Beaumont Fletcher Comedies and Tragedies.
WOTD question
Do you think puellile / puelline would be an interesting WOTD? J3133 (talk) 10:44, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Not? J3133 (talk) 10:57, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: sure, puellile seems fine. Puelline doesn't appear in the OED so it would need verifying quotations. Anyway, we should only feature one of them as they are identical in meaning. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- I did not intend to suggest featuring both; rather, to mention the alternative form (which I created on 10 January with 6 quotations (re “would need verifying quotations”)). When would puellile be WOTD?—on Girls’ Day / Hinamatsuri (3 March) perhaps? J3133 (talk) 11:20, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: sure, please nominate one of them for 3 March at “Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:35, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- I noticed that I nominated “puelline” instead of “puellile” (a mistake; I said “When would puellile be WOTD”). Can it be changed now? J3133 (talk) 14:51, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: aargh. Shall we just leave it at puelline since it's already been set? — SGconlaw (talk) 14:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Puellile has nine times as many Google results as puelline and appears in a major dictionary; it would be better to change, if possible. J3133 (talk) 15:07, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: well, we also feature less common words, so that's not really a problem. Also, at the moment puelline is a more complete entry as it has more quotations. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:19, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Then if I added quotations to puellile? J3133 (talk) 15:20, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Puellile now has more quotations. J3133 (talk) 17:13, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: *Sigh*, OK. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:16, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: I think the 2017 quotation should be removed or replaced; the author clearly didn't make up the word himself. Also, note that an editor expressed a problem with the 1908 quotation on the talk page (I think it's OK, personally). — SGconlaw (talk) 17:33, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Why does it matter whether the author made up the word himself or not if it is a use of it? The claim can be removed from the quotation. J3133 (talk) 17:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: yes, perhaps just remove the footnote as it may be confusing to readers. But if a better quotation can be found (from a less clueless author), I suggest using that instead. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:44, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Why does it matter whether the author made up the word himself or not if it is a use of it? The claim can be removed from the quotation. J3133 (talk) 17:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: well, we also feature less common words, so that's not really a problem. Also, at the moment puelline is a more complete entry as it has more quotations. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:19, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- Puellile has nine times as many Google results as puelline and appears in a major dictionary; it would be better to change, if possible. J3133 (talk) 15:07, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: aargh. Shall we just leave it at puelline since it's already been set? — SGconlaw (talk) 14:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- I noticed that I nominated “puelline” instead of “puellile” (a mistake; I said “When would puellile be WOTD”). Can it be changed now? J3133 (talk) 14:51, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: sure, please nominate one of them for 3 March at “Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:35, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
- I did not intend to suggest featuring both; rather, to mention the alternative form (which I created on 10 January with 6 quotations (re “would need verifying quotations”)). When would puellile be WOTD?—on Girls’ Day / Hinamatsuri (3 March) perhaps? J3133 (talk) 11:20, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I see you have access to the images at Newspapers.com.
entry2 (used in the 1891 quotation) does not work. J3133 (talk) 18:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: OK, fixed. I applied for access to Newspapers.com from the Wikipedia Library Card Platform; you might want to do so as well. It's very useful for print newspaper content – just remember to use the clip function as clips are viewable by everyone, while URLs to the entire page are only accessible to subscribers. I tried looking for the 1891 quotation in The Guardian (the most obvious Guardian newspaper) on Newspapers.com, but could not find it. It must be from some other Guardian (perhaps the one referred to in the Wikipedia article "w:The Guardian (Anglican newspaper)"?). — SGconlaw (talk) 19:24, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
I keep on forgetting that Template:RQ:Spenser FQ has been deleted. Can you recreate it please as a redirect? Alexfromiowa (talk) 21:42, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Nah, don't worry. I made Template:RQ:Spenser F as an alternative. Happy editing! Alexfromiowa (talk) 22:03, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- @AlexfromIowa: please avoid creating unnecessary redirects that are difficult for other editors to understand the meaning of.
{{RQ:Spenser Faerie Queene}}is not that hard to type. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:20, 14 January 2021 (UTC)- As long as we're keeping Template:RQ:Mrxl SqrsDghtr, I'm gonna defend Template:RQ:Spenser F. Alexfromiowa (talk) 10:14, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Alexfromiowa: there's no reason to retain redirects like
{{RQ:Mrxl SqrsDghtr}}either; they were created quite long ago when I renamed all such quotation templates with more understandable names, and I was not aware that there was a way to request for uses of such templates to be replaced. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:02, 16 January 2021 (UTC)- Well, my defence is weak now. Do as you wish with my abbrv's tmplts. Alexfromiowa (talk) 16:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
- @Alexfromiowa: there's no reason to retain redirects like
- As long as we're keeping Template:RQ:Mrxl SqrsDghtr, I'm gonna defend Template:RQ:Spenser F. Alexfromiowa (talk) 10:14, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- @AlexfromIowa: please avoid creating unnecessary redirects that are difficult for other editors to understand the meaning of.
Template:RQ:Bacon Inquistio
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Bacon Works.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:New International Version.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Twelfth Night.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Buk Baibel.
Template:RQ:Shakespeare Locrine
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Locrine.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Joseph Beaumont Psyche.
">edit]
Please explain reversion to the inferior markup: Equinox ◑ 17:04, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: is there some reason for using the template when the tooltip feature is not employed? Otherwise it just seems to be an unnecessary transclusion of templates on to the page. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:11, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- When it's a template, the system recognises it as such, and can understand that this is elided text. If you write "" then there is no way for the system to know that the cited author didn't in fact write "" in their book. Do you specifically avoid it because you think it has a performance penalty? Please don't. Equinox ◑ 11:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: what isn't clear to me is what it means for the "system" to "recognize" the template. Well, yes, I thought there was no reason to use a template if it wasn't serving any particular purpose (such as creating a tooltip) as it would add to the transclusions on pages. I suppose this would only be critical on very large pages, though. I take your point about the possibility of distinguishing between an elision inserted by an editor and one in the original text, though I have to say I have yet to encounter the use of a bracketed ellipsis in original texts; most of the time the ellipses are unbracketed, and I would reproduce this with "
…". — SGconlaw (talk) 13:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: what isn't clear to me is what it means for the "system" to "recognize" the template. Well, yes, I thought there was no reason to use a template if it wasn't serving any particular purpose (such as creating a tooltip) as it would add to the transclusions on pages. I suppose this would only be critical on very large pages, though. I take your point about the possibility of distinguishing between an elision inserted by an editor and one in the original text, though I have to say I have yet to encounter the use of a bracketed ellipsis in original texts; most of the time the ellipses are unbracketed, and I would reproduce this with "
- When it's a template, the system recognises it as such, and can understand that this is elided text. If you write "" then there is no way for the system to know that the cited author didn't in fact write "" in their book. Do you specifically avoid it because you think it has a performance penalty? Please don't. Equinox ◑ 11:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- Any kind of automatic processing of the text should be able to understand that it's seeing an elided portion, and not an actual "" that someone typed with brackets and dots. As we progress into the future, we will do more and more automatic computer-based work. What else do you need to know? You need to use the form that I have shown you. If you don't understand this, ask on one of the discussion pages. I'm trying to be nice so far. Equinox ◑ 23:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: well, thank you for at least explaining how the templates distinguish between ellipses inserted by Wiktionary editors and those already in texts. That is a reason I find convincing. General statements suggesting there will be more "automatic processing of the text" and more "automatic computer-based work" without explaining the purpose that such "automatic processing" is supposed to achieve is, frankly, neither convincing nor helpful. And everyone is a volunteer here; there is no need to treat people condescendingly. — SGconlaw (talk) 13:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Any kind of automatic processing of the text should be able to understand that it's seeing an elided portion, and not an actual "" that someone typed with brackets and dots. As we progress into the future, we will do more and more automatic computer-based work. What else do you need to know? You need to use the form that I have shown you. If you don't understand this, ask on one of the discussion pages. I'm trying to be nice so far. Equinox ◑ 23:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- Writing HTML junk like & nbsp; is also very unhelpful. Equinox ◑ 23:41, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: Not everything is supposed to wrap (e.g., ⟨/⟩, a medieval form of the comma). If it would not be written in HTML, one cannot tell it ( ) apart from an ordinary space. See w:MOS:NBSP for more uses (also for en dashes: w:WP:MOS § Punctuating a sentence (em or en dashes)). J3133 (talk) 06:57, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- @J3133: What the fuck are you doing here? Congratulation, we think you are very clever for knowing about a mediaeval comma. Fuck off. Equinox ◑ 06:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: Not everything is supposed to wrap (e.g., ⟨/⟩, a medieval form of the comma). If it would not be written in HTML, one cannot tell it ( ) apart from an ordinary space. See w:MOS:NBSP for more uses (also for en dashes: w:WP:MOS § Punctuating a sentence (em or en dashes)). J3133 (talk) 06:57, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Writing HTML junk like & nbsp; is also very unhelpful. Equinox ◑ 23:41, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: kindly point to some policy stating that HTML is "unhelpful" or not to be used. — SGconlaw (talk) 13:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- I have explained why it is counterproductive and harmful to the project not to use it, and why it's useful to use it (meaningful to the machine). You can continue out of pure spite but I will see this as vandalism. Have fun. You seemed so cool otherwise. Equinox ◑ 06:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: er, no, I accepted your explanation and now use
{{...}}. What exactly are you referring to? — SGconlaw (talk) 07:02, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: er, no, I accepted your explanation and now use
- I have explained why it is counterproductive and harmful to the project not to use it, and why it's useful to use it (meaningful to the machine). You can continue out of pure spite but I will see this as vandalism. Have fun. You seemed so cool otherwise. Equinox ◑ 06:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- A disgusting reply from someone who clearly knows nothing and expected me to do nothing while you are attacking Sgconlaw. J3133 (talk) 06:54, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- Also no, knowing about a mediaeval comma does not make you very clever (nor does throwing a fit because someone provided points). J3133 (talk) 07:19, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- Sgconlaw, sorry to pop up out of nowhere. It's true that I ignore my talk pages and responses for a long time, so sometimes I reopen long-ago discussions. At least I got to make J3133 super salty. Equinox ◑ 07:23, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Equinox: OK. Seriously, you might try dialling it down a notch. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:01, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Byron Lara.
Swift templates
Hi. Thanks again for deleting the useful redirects. Perhaps you'd like to do something with Template:Jonathan Swift quotation templates next. Oxlade2000 (talk) 21:27, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Oxlade2000: *Shudder* — SGconlaw (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- I know, right. To make it even more fun, there are more that aren't in there, and will be even more in the near future. Oxlade2000 (talk) 21:33, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- No need to be swift (or Swift). Please take time to do things right. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, SG, listen to Chuck ... Oxlade2000 (talk) 22:06, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- Don’t think that was aimed at me … — SGconlaw (talk) 22:12, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, SG, listen to Chuck ... Oxlade2000 (talk) 22:06, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- No need to be swift (or Swift). Please take time to do things right. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
- I know, right. To make it even more fun, there are more that aren't in there, and will be even more in the near future. Oxlade2000 (talk) 21:33, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
ParserFunction errors
I haven't been checking these for a while, and there are now quite a few of them. Here's a table of all the ones related to quotation templates, with selected information to show where the problem is (I've omitted text and passage parameters unless relevant to save space):
| Entry | Template | Error snippet |
|---|---|---|
| bless | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|40|pageref=n53}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 40 |
| blow | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|43|pageref=n56}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 43 |
| decent | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|38|pageref=n51}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 38 |
| desire | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls|Lancelot and Elaine}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "lancelot", in Idylls of the King |
| discage | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| disfame | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
"Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| dishorse | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| dislink | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| enchaired | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| gaudy | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| inrunning | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| javelin | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| lowing | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Nativity|11|pageref=n24}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 11 |
| lull | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Arcades|54|pageref=n67}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 54 |
| mere | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| pied | {{RQ:Milton Poems|L'Allegro|33|pageref=n46}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 33 |
| poach | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| prim | {{RQ:Swift Baucis and Philemon}}
|
Expression error: Unexpected > operator., “Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Expression error: Unexpected > operator., Baucis and Philemon; a Poem. , |
| pudding sleeve | {{RQ:Swift Baucis and Philemon}}
|
Expression error: Unexpected > operator., “Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Expression error: Unexpected > operator., Baucis and Philemon; a Poem. , |
| resort | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|40|pageref=n53}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 40 |
| ring | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|39|pageref=n52}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 39 |
| scramble | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Lycidas|62|pageref=n75}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 62 |
| shifter | {{RQ:Milton Poems|On the Univerſity Carrier |28|pageref=n41}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 28 |
| shrink | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Nativity|10|pageref=n23}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 10 |
| skid | {{RQ:Dickens A Tale of Two Cities}}
|
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities, book Expression error: Unexpected <= operator., |
| sparse | {{RQ:Spenser Fairy|1|1|They began properly to Sparse pretye rumours in the North}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "they"./mode/1up page They began properly to Sparse pretye rumours in the North: |
| stage | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Passion|16|pageref=n29}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 16 |
| stay | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Another on the ſame|29|pageref=n42}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 29 |
| stem | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Arcades|55|pageref=n68}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 55 |
| swinge | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Nativity|9|pageref=n22}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 9 |
| trip the light fantastic toe | {{RQ:Milton Poems|L'Allegro|page=31|pageref=n44}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 31 |
| twine | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Nativity|11|pageref=n24}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 11 |
| unpreach | {{RQ:Defoe True-Born Englishman}}
|
part Expression error: Unexpected <= operator. |
| upstart | {{RQ:Tennyson Idylls}}
|
“Expression error: Unexpected < operator.”, in Idylls of the King |
| wherwith | {{RQ:Milton Poems|lines=1–2|page=16|pageref=n29|poem=Passion}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 16 |
| whet | {{RQ:Milton Poems|L'Allegro|page=33|pageref=n46}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 33 |
| wild | {{RQ:Milton Poems|page=58|pageref=n71|poem=Lycidas}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 58 |
| woo | {{RQ:Milton Poems|Il Penseroso|39|pageref=n52}}
|
Expression error: Unrecognized word "n"./mode/1up page 39 |
There are two basic problems: {{RQ:Milton Poems}} being given non-numeric pagerefs that it doesn't know how to handle, and other templates not being given mandatory parameters to allow finding the passages in the books.
Maybe we need some kind of intermediate template so WF can give what useful information he finds without having to bother with the full details. As it is currently, the entries are left in a broken condition- with no request category to let people know that the job isn't finished. Sure, there's Category:ParserFunction errors, but that's an emergency maintenance category that shouldn't be used for such things. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:26, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: thanks, this is helpful. I think it is generally a legacy problem as I now try to program the quotation templates so that they don't throw ParserFunction errors. The errors generated by
{{RQ:Milton Poems}}was due to an update to the template; I've asked Benwing2 to do a bot replace. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- WF has generated some more errors since then :) These ones are from the use of Template:RQ:Chapman Iliad, which was deleted by you and I imagine you're going to delete again soon, protect it from recreation, and then do the same with a similar template redirect like Template:RQ:Chapman Il. Oxlade2000 (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
I understand that this will not be as controversial in the English-speaking world as some previous political WOTDs, but I think that this too is the kind of political subject area that is best avoided in the future for both WOTD and FWOTD. It's also a rather rude way to mark the birthday of a living person, even if you have a very low opinion of his ethics. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 19:32, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: there was actually a whole discussion on this at “Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2021/January#"Schröderization" as WOTD?” but no one seemed to think it was an issue or even that it was worth bothering about (only Jberkel commented). — SGconlaw (talk) 01:17, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- I missed that discussion, else I would have commented sooner. Anyway, you can leave the WOTD set, but my suggestion is that such senses related to living people, and arguably extending to similarly negative senses that involve the recently deceased, should not be used looking forward.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 18:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: which is why I thought it would be appropriate to have a discussion, but it didn't seem that editors felt very strongly about the issue. — SGconlaw (talk) 18:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- I missed that discussion, else I would have commented sooner. Anyway, you can leave the WOTD set, but my suggestion is that such senses related to living people, and arguably extending to similarly negative senses that involve the recently deceased, should not be used looking forward.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Thomson Works.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Wordsworth Poems 1815.
new audio
I audio'd up a few future WOTDs - in case you wanted to put them in the fancy WOTD template. Yah, some of them are grainy as fuck, but hey, better than nothing, right? (or is it actually worse? because people might think "huh, I have been saying this word wrong all those years, without the graininess that that dude included" and them jump of a cliff in sheer desperation.) Seriously, I know a guy who attempted suicide because he was saying quinoa wrong, very funny story. He was, coincidentally, a grain farmer. In the end, he survived the fall, and I have never had the heart to tell him that he puts the stress on the wrong syllable of sorghum. Maybe I'll add an incorrect audio to that page, just to save his life, you know. He'll come along, check Wiktionary, which will soon be number 1 dictionary on the web, and be satisfied once again. Oh Pedro, how much I love you! Yellow is the colour (talk) 13:50, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Yellow is the colour: ha ha, thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:27, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
{{cite-meta}} changes
Yo, where is the discussion to move the date in {{cite-meta}}? I really hate it. --{{victar|talk}} 02:58, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- There had been various complaints over the years which led to the creation of
{{R:Reference-meta}}(now redundant), and there was also a formatting issue which led to a redundant space appearing after the date in some cases – having the date where it was made coding quite complex. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:00, 9 May 2021 (UTC)- Do you need help moving it back? Is that your reasoning for moving the translator too? @Erutuon. --
{{victar|talk}}04:20, 9 May 2021 (UTC)- There was also suggestion that the translator should be credited up front as the person who actually composed the English text, and I generally agree with that. On balance, it seems to me that putting the publication date after the publisher creates less controversy. I would be inclined to leave the changes in place. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:08, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- Seeing as this was a personal decision and not made with any previous discussion, I've reverted your edits. The template format as is is in keeping with academic and publishing standards. I also believe all references should be dated, which appears to be another change you made. I recommend you start a discussion in the Beer Parlour with of proposal first before instating them again. --
{{victar|talk}}10:19, 9 May 2021 (UTC)- All right, I’ll do that. — SGconlaw (talk) 10:31, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for hearing me out and doing that. --
{{victar|talk}}11:06, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for hearing me out and doing that. --
- All right, I’ll do that. — SGconlaw (talk) 10:31, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- Seeing as this was a personal decision and not made with any previous discussion, I've reverted your edits. The template format as is is in keeping with academic and publishing standards. I also believe all references should be dated, which appears to be another change you made. I recommend you start a discussion in the Beer Parlour with of proposal first before instating them again. --
- There was also suggestion that the translator should be credited up front as the person who actually composed the English text, and I generally agree with that. On balance, it seems to me that putting the publication date after the publisher creates less controversy. I would be inclined to leave the changes in place. — SGconlaw (talk) 05:08, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
- Do you need help moving it back? Is that your reasoning for moving the translator too? @Erutuon. --
Few questions
Hello, I had a few questions regarding quotes.
- If I want to say a quote was written anytime up to 1200 CE, and if I want to express that in terms of century rather than a year, then what should I say? a. 13th century or a. 12th century? I am really confused about it.
- Also, can the word ‘century’ be abbreviated to ‘c.’ ?— it looks so unsightly to see the whole word displayed (in bold).
- Lastly, if the meaning of a particular word be uncertain then how can I indicate it? I think (?) is a goodun— if I use it then should I put it just beside the word in question? And if so then with or without any spacing to avoid ambiguity? May be it would be nice to have some template that would display a dotted line beneath the word and a (?) sign after the word.
For reference, you can see the quote in this entry. Thank you for your attention! -⸘- dictātor·mundī 17:39, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hi, @Inqilābī:
- There is some ambiguity about this. Some people would say that the 13th century means 1201 to 1300 C.E., whereas it is also common nowadays to regard 1200–1299 as the 13th century (see "w:Century"). Because of the ambiguity of when the new century starts, I would suggest stating "a. 1200" instead of trying to use the "12th/13th century" form.
- Depends on the context, I think. If you are using
{{defdate}}, we generally abbreviate century to c. However, in other contexts it may be better to spell it out to avoid ambiguity, as c. is also often used to mean chapter or circa. - Yes, I suppose it is fine to use a question mark to indicate that the meaning of a word is unclear. My preference would be to put it in square brackets, since those are generally used to indicate editorial insertions into a text. If you are going to put it on the same level as the text, I think leave a space between it and the text. An alternative may be to make it a superscript, like this in which case no space is needed. Maybe we should create a template like
{{sic}}to achieve this effect (I'm not entirely sure how we would add a dotted underline to the word after which it is placed, though).
- — SGconlaw (talk) 18:02, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the suggestions. I would like to make the following observations:
- 1201-1300 C.E. for the 13th century is the standard practice as far as I know. Those who celebrated new century/millennium in 2000 were criticised by many, for example. I am hearing for the first time that 1200–1299 for the said century is acceptable; it might be common but it is erroneous. Nevertheless, I like your suggestion of using the year instead. By the way, is using a. --th century rare or even nonexistent? I ought to use the standard notation… Again however, if I follow the standard practice of counting the 13th century until 1300 C.E., then what should I write?— a. 13th century would mean “before the 13th century”, i.e., “before 1201 CE”, right? (This was actually my original question.)
- Using ‘c.’ in quotes could lead to confusion with other abbreviations, of course. But also it’s written following the century (13th); whilst circa is written before the date, and ‘chapter’ farther away… Notwithstanding, since circa & century are quite closely related with regard to date, I agree it would be wise not to use ‘c.’ for century. Still writing out the whole word looks kinda bad; so what about using other abbreviations, ‘C.’ or ‘cent.’?— both valid ones.
- All that I can say is that (?) seems to be a standard symbol. That Old Bengali quote you saw— it was copied from
{{R:ODBL|1|262}}where the author used the same symbol; hence I picked that up. I have no idea if does serve the same purpose, nor am I sure if using a superscript symbol would be nice, as some other thing may be suggested by it (like, readers may think of some hidden gloss, a font, or the like). I am in favour of a dotted underline seeing that it has the potential to show connexion to the word better than elsewhat. And I thought of it because a. and c. already appear underscored with a dotted line when used in a quotation templet. Would be worth a shot. Alternatively, if this idea be not feasible, then we can put an asterisk at the end of the word, as WORD* to indicate that the uncertainty of the meaning.
- -⸘- dictātor·mundī 01:22, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: Could you give us your ideas on these? Thanks. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- 1. a. 1200 2. probably also what Sgconlaw says; this is too trifling to have decided a preference. I guess I mostly spell it out. 3. I don’t know. The same problem arises when I transcribe a song but do not understand a segment, as on mickey (“membrum virile”). Then I also want to indicate the length of the segment. Sgconlaw likes to use
|footer=for notes. A similar issue is manuscript variants, sometimes one could peruse a whole apparatus for a quoted text. Fay Freak (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- 1. a. 1200 2. probably also what Sgconlaw says; this is too trifling to have decided a preference. I guess I mostly spell it out. 3. I don’t know. The same problem arises when I transcribe a song but do not understand a segment, as on mickey (“membrum virile”). Then I also want to indicate the length of the segment. Sgconlaw likes to use
- @Fay Freak: Could you give us your ideas on these? Thanks. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the suggestions. I would like to make the following observations:
More ParserFunction errors
I don't know if you were aware, but the bot run that substituted the Tristram Shandy templates last week left 15 entries with ParserFunction errors due to their not having volume numbers specified. There are 5 two-letter entries there as a side effect of "out of memory" errors, but everything else is because of the bot run. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:51, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: that’s odd. Let me check. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:15, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: OK.
Fixed. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:09, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Invisible Module Error at Wiktionary:Quotations/Templates/English G–L
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Hall Works.
Quick message before I get blocked again
Hi SG. During Equinox's recent (and pretty epic) mass-delete of pages WF created, a few quotation templates were destroyed in the process. You may or may not want to recreate them. TVdinnerless (talk) 15:12, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- @TVdinnerless: ah, OK. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:46, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:pert.
- Discussion moved to Talk:Raj.
GalacticShoe
Hi, I undid a block you gave to this user because they weren't vandalizing, only reverting vandalism. I removed the edit summaries because they were undos/reverts that contained the username of the actual vandal, as is standard practice. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 09:36, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Surjection: oh, sorry, I must have looked at the edit history wrongly. — SGconlaw (talk) 11:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:laske.
new audios
Hi SG, I made a bunch more audios for the future WOTDs. I think we're up to date now Roger the Rodger (talk) 16:18, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Roger the Rodger: great! — SGconlaw (talk) 16:22, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Undeletion request
Hi. Could you please undelete all this stuff? Equinox epically mass-deleted all of Wonderfool's entries back in the summer, but they were all good Roger the Rodger (talk) 20:11, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Absurdly large WOTDs
Seriously, what's up with those WOTDs with more than 10 (sub)senses recently? No one is killed if you skip one or two quotidian senses. ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 16:26, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Lingo Bingo Dingo: guess it's easier than having to decide which senses to include and which to exclude? But I'll bear that in mind. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
groundly
- Discussion moved to Talk:groundly.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Sonnets.
Heads-up
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Peele Old Wives Tale.
ISBN
Hi. I found a bunch of templated quotes using ISBN= instead of the lowercase isbn=. Any chance that could be added into the Template:quote-book? Br00pVain (talk) 17:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Mayhew London Labour.
2022
How we will see unregistered users
Hi!
You get this message because you are an admin on a Wikimedia wiki.
When someone edits a Wikimedia wiki without being logged in today, we show their IP address. As you may already know, we will not be able to do this in the future. This is a decision by the Wikimedia Foundation Legal department, because norms and regulations for privacy online have changed.
Instead of the IP we will show a masked identity. You as an admin will still be able to access the IP. There will also be a new user right for those who need to see the full IPs of unregistered users to fight vandalism, harassment and spam without being admins. Patrollers will also see part of the IP even without this user right. We are also working on better tools to help.
If you have not seen it before, you can read more on Meta. If you want to make sure you don’t miss technical changes on the Wikimedia wikis, you can subscribe to the weekly technical newsletter.
We have two suggested ways this identity could work. We would appreciate your feedback on which way you think would work best for you and your wiki, now and in the future. You can let us know on the talk page. You can write in your language. The suggestions were posted in October and we will decide after 17 January.
Thank you. /Johan (WMF)
18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Your reverts on Shakey temps...
Thanks for spotting this. I added it because there were a few instances (probably all Wonderfool's fault) where there was an url included, but it didn't show up on the page. The idea was that an url= bit would overrule the pageurl= bit. But whatever, I really don't understand complicated templates. Br00pVain (talk) 20:35, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Quotation marks
Why do you change curly quotation marks to straight ones (Special:Diff/65661696)? I use whichever is used in the work. J3133 (talk) 16:12, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- @J3133: ah, I didn't know you did that. I generally change them to straight quotes for consistency (especially since most people don't type curly quotes in the quotations), unless it interferes with wikitext markup (for example, "'''nature''''s"). But I'll leave them unchanged if you prefer. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Stevenson Dynamiter.
Template redirects
Hi again! You'll be pleased to know that I made a whole bunch more RQ: template redirects for you to unnecessarily delete VealSociedad (talk) 23:27, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Template:RQ:Orczy Eldorado/documentation and similar docs
I noticed in this documentation and also Template:RQ:Defoe Great Britain/documentation you refer to "Wikipedia entry pages", but this is not Wikipedia of course...could you correct this and any other docs you might have made this error in please? 37.110.218.43 14:07, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- Strange, I wonder how this error crept in. I'll request a bot edit. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Romeo and Juliet Q1-2.
double dates
Hey. In my recent edit at uberly, I saw a date repeated, so decided to just keep one. I've done this loads, by the way, but only just realized there might have actually been a perfectly good reason for this. What's your opinion on the matter? Notusbutthem (talk) 19:20, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Notusbutthem: yeah, I don't think it's necessary for the date to be repeated unless one is the date when the work is written (for first performed, in the case of a play) and the other the date of publication, in which case it should be set out clearly what the dates mean. For example, where the date of writing differs from the publication date, I'll indicate
|month=(date written),|year=1810, and|year_published=1825. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:28, 27 February 2022 (UTC)- Thanks goodness for that. I was expecting your mighty wrath (ooh, that could be WOTD, I see you have a current fetish for 5-letter words...) Notusbutthem (talk) 19:31, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Notusbutthem: yes, thought a Wordle-themed series might be fun. But I think we have enough five-lettered words from 2019. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:33, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- Kinda makes me want to redo WT's multilingual Scrabble game. Notusbutthem (talk) 19:38, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Notusbutthem: yes, thought a Wordle-themed series might be fun. But I think we have enough five-lettered words from 2019. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:33, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks goodness for that. I was expecting your mighty wrath (ooh, that could be WOTD, I see you have a current fetish for 5-letter words...) Notusbutthem (talk) 19:31, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
useless urls
Another corner I like cutting is adding url= to certain templates. I know many of the url= parameters actually do nothing. Maybe we can generate a list of them. But we probably shouldn't really give a damn Notusbutthem (talk) 19:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:skill.
Template:RQ:Shakespeare Passionate Pilgrim
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Passionate Pilgrime.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Marlowe Edward 2.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:R. F. Burton Arabian Nights.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Richardson Clarissa.
- Discussion moved to Talk:smirch.
Another book commonly quoted in WT that could do with an RQ template VealSociedad (talk) 10:34, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Needs allowing for non-Roman numerals. In fact, I'm surprised this isn't covered in {{quote-book}}, as it seems like a very reasonable thing to do VealSociedad (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Shakespeare Love's Labour's Lost.
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Fielding Amelia.
Hello! I know sortieing is a valid verb inflection of sortie, but I removed it because we don't (AFAIK, as a rule) add these things as "derived terms" when they are already in the verb inflection line! Are you saying it's an important adjective? If so, maybe you'd like to cite it at sortieing separate from the verb? Equinox ◑ 07:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, we should probably add an “Adjective” heading at sortieing, but I don’t always have the time or inclination to edit all the entries that are related to the entry I’m actually working on. It becomes a neverending rabbit hole so sometimes I just draw a line and decide to leave it to another editor to deal with. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed. The fact that all the verb-derived adjs are actually verb forms suggests it's something that some stupid AI bot can do in a few years. Go figure. — Or to be a bit more blunt, I could spend my hours here fixing ISBN numbers and templates, or I could do something useful like creating new entries and finding citations. It makes me sad to see people doing stuff that a machine can do. There is/was a discussion about whether we should bother with those adj-verb forms, but I can't remember where it is. "A hoisting compiler": whom does it benefit to add "hoisting" as a... well, you see where I'm coming from. Equinox ◑ 07:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Pentiment(i)
- Discussion moved to Talk:pentimento.
Rhymes and spaces
Thank you for your recent correction. Do you think it would have been appropriate to list /-ʌtaʊt/ (without no space) as a rhyme instead? In other words, should spaces in IPA pronunciations be preserved in rhymes when the primary stress of the phrase is not in the last word? - excarnateSojourner (talk | contrib) 20:05, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- @ExcarnateSojourner: ehhh, don’t think it’s a good idea, especially since (as I’ve mentioned to you before) it’s not a good idea to create rhymes pages for entries which are unlikely to have rhymes. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
I knew it was not idiomatic; I was intending to add it as an {{&lit}} on the page, but it was protected. FWIW, on the first SERP of Google Books, there are at least as many literal uses of the phrase as figurative. 70.172.194.25 16:00, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Personally, I think literal senses are completely useless. Why anyone would bother to look them up is beyond me. At most, they may be useful for phrasal verbs (e.g., walk through), but really not for terms like strange the parrot. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:13, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Spenser Faerie Queene.
Hi SG. Could you please make 5K the 5000th Word of the Day? Zumbacool (talk) 18:53, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: how do we know how many WOTDs we have already set? — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- this is a good start. I count 4973 main namespace pages Zumbacool (talk) 20:13, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: ah, good idea. However, is 5K not potentially SoP? — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:29, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not gonna send it to RFV Zumbacool (talk) 12:54, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: I'd rather not feature it if it's going to be deleted. I've raised this at the Tea Room. In the meantime you might want to think of a backup nomination. — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw: How about hundreds and thousands? For October 15 2022 which is apparently Sweetest Day. That would be sweet. Zumbacool (talk) 13:15, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: sure. By the way, you can make such nominations at "Wiktionary:Word of the day/Nominations#Nominations for particular day". — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:33, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw: How about hundreds and thousands? For October 15 2022 which is apparently Sweetest Day. That would be sweet. Zumbacool (talk) 13:15, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: I'd rather not feature it if it's going to be deleted. I've raised this at the Tea Room. In the meantime you might want to think of a backup nomination. — Sgconlaw (talk) 13:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not gonna send it to RFV Zumbacool (talk) 12:54, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Zumbacool: ah, good idea. However, is 5K not potentially SoP? — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:29, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- this is a good start. I count 4973 main namespace pages Zumbacool (talk) 20:13, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi. Can you put a stave= bit in the template that links to Wikisource? To make the quote at bitterer a bit better. Zumbacool (talk) 17:12, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Richardson Clarissa.
Hi. Can you add something that makes the chapter= bit work at malignity? Zumbacool (talk) 06:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
When mass-adding translations...
...please either specify the gender (it can easily be looked up online) or at the very least add |? (places it in a maintenance category) so that other people can clean it up later. This is in reference to rhapsody and false dichotomy. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 23:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Fytcha: I try to add the gender when I can find out what it is, but I can’t always easily find the information. I didn’t know about adding the extra pipe; I’ll do that in the future. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:39, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
WOTD prediction
On 1 August 2016, did you predict the Word of the Day would be "scuffle" on the 27th of that month? When it would actually be much later, in October? (I've applied a fix.) Henstepl (talk) 17:33, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Henstepl: wow, this was so long ago I don't recall. Must have been a typo. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:39, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Template:RQ:Burton 1000
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:R. F. Burton Arabian Nights.
Broken Wikipedia links
A large portion of the broken Wikipedia links identified by User:This, that and the other and listed here are for authors and words in quotations. Some look like they may be yours.
I've been cleaning up similarly broken links in Translingual entries. There is a certain satisfaction to be found in cleaning up one's actual own messes and messes ascribable to one. DCDuring (talk) 18:38, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: the link you provided doesn't seem to be an extant page. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Corrected the link above. DCDuring (talk) 18:46, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: thanks. I'm not sure I fully understand what the page means (for example, what is "Section e-w*-4"?). It doesn't look like any of the broken links are caused by quotation templates created by me, though. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:56, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Many of the headings mean something only to the author thereof. I was hoping some were yours because it would be hard to track down a dispersed group of contributors. It is possible that some active on RfV are responsible for many of them. DCDuring (talk) 19:00, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: I had a look at two or three of the entries. They're quotations entered by various editors but not by me, I'm afraid. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:04, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Lots of the errors were mine, which comes as no surprise to anyone... I actually fixed some too, and not just mine xxx Zumbacool (talk) 10:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: I had a look at two or three of the entries. They're quotations entered by various editors but not by me, I'm afraid. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:04, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Many of the headings mean something only to the author thereof. I was hoping some were yours because it would be hard to track down a dispersed group of contributors. It is possible that some active on RfV are responsible for many of them. DCDuring (talk) 19:00, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: thanks. I'm not sure I fully understand what the page means (for example, what is "Section e-w*-4"?). It doesn't look like any of the broken links are caused by quotation templates created by me, though. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:56, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Corrected the link above. DCDuring (talk) 18:46, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Richardson Clarissa.
4999 WOTDs
- Discussion moved to Talk:hundreds and thousands.
User:This, that and the other/broken interwiki links/2022-07-01/wikisource is a new cleanup page which may or not correspond to your wikiing. Dunderdool (talk) 18:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
autobus
- Discussion moved to Talk:autobus.
Hi. Just FYI this term is real. There is a well-known movie by Spike Lee with this title, and Googling yields tons of hits. It is not similar to "Apelanta" and "Chimpcongo", which are made-up terms. Benwing2 (talk) 04:58, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: well, then hopefully someone will add the required three quotations to the entry. — Sgconlaw (talk) 09:04, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Spenser Complaints.
How does this term fall under the purview of WT:DEROGATORY? — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 13:00, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- It was once used by a conservative 😂 😂 Equinox ◑ 13:21, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Same goes for blackophilia. I suggest you read WT:DEROGATORY before doing any further "work" in this direction. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 17:26, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Fytcha: Looking at Clown World Order, it appears I accepted the assessment of the editor who tagged the entry (User:98.170.164.88) at face value. On review, I agree that it does not clearly fall within WT:DEROGATORY, and so sending the entry to WT:RFV is appropriate.
- Blackophilia, on the other hand, seems to me to clearly fall within WT:DEROGATORY clearly. It indicates a fondness for or interest in black people, with a connotation that this is something strange or to be abhorred. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, just saw this. I guess I saw the derogatory label and noticed it was created by a user with a history of making dubious entries, and didn't think much further before applying the template. I'll be more careful in the future to only add
{{derogatory}}to terms that fit the wording of the policy. 98.170.164.88 15:30, 5 September 2022 (UTC)- @98.170.164.88: no worries. — Sgconlaw (talk) 15:42, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, just saw this. I guess I saw the derogatory label and noticed it was created by a user with a history of making dubious entries, and didn't think much further before applying the template. I'll be more careful in the future to only add
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Tyndale NT.
Linking to Wikipedia
Please make sure that the WP page exists before you link to it. Cheers! GreyishWorm (talk) 21:08, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
- @GreyishWorm: yes, thanks for the reminder. I usually do ... — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:09, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
Edit at Template:RQ:Fitzgerald Jazz Age
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Fitzgerald Jazz Age.
Bot edits on attend
I appreciate you reviewing the bot edits and I'll make sure it can better handle similar situations in the future. I think it could be argued that both of the bot edits bought the page slightly closer to WT:ELE compliance, since neither "Translations" nor "Related terms" should have been nested below "Derived terms", but clearly the bot missed the ideal fix of making "Derived terms" L5 instead of L4. Thanks! JeffDoozan (talk) 22:52, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, @JeffDoozan. Ah, I didn't realize AutoDooz was a bot. (Should bots have the name "bot" in them?) It just seemed like a rather obtuse editor. Hmmm, well, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean. At attend the error was that "Derived terms" was a level 3 instead of a level 4 heading. However, instead of fixing that, the bot also made "Related terms" a level 3 heading, and then moved both "Derived terms" and "Related terms" below "Translations". That doesn't seem to comply with WT:ELE at all. Hope you can fix the bot's behaviour. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:35, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
- I agree the bot's behavior looks pretty dumb to human editors. In case you're interested, here's what the bot saw and how it would justify its edits: when it first encountered the page, there were three non-compliant sections: "Derived terms", "Related terms", and "Translations". Additionally, "Related terms" and "Translations" were both incorrectly marked as children of "Derived terms", making 5 total ELE errors. It moved "Translations" from "Derived terms" to "Verb", reducing the error count to 3. Later, it moved "Related terms" outside of "Derived terms", reducing the error count to 2.
- From a human-perspective the page appears less compliant because we don't pay much attention to section levels and just notice that "Translations" is higher on the page than "Derived terms".
- On a third pass, the bot would have noticed that "Derived terms" and "Related terms" should both be child sections of "Verb" and it would have adjusted the section headers. Then it would have noticed that the sections inside Verb were not sorted according to WT:ELE and it would sort them appropriately, achieving the desired result in a rather roundabout way.
- It shouldn't take three or four edits to achieve the simple effect of making "Derived terms" level 4 instead of level 3 and going forward the bot will be smart enough to correct everything in one pass, but I hope this provides some insight on how the bot sees the page and believes that its edits are bringing it closer to WT:ELE compliance. JeffDoozan (talk) 22:24, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
- @JeffDoozan: I see. Anyway, best of luck with tweaking the bot! — Sgconlaw (talk) 01:32, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
How often do you check this? There's a link to it at CAT:E, and I always check both. Considering the high volume of template editing you do, I think you should check it much more often. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:51, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: pretty much never? It's something I always forget. Will try and remember to do so. — Sgconlaw (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Pubic domain
Word of the day for January 1 Hamdisaif (talk) 01:22, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
I thought it was agreed not to add English conjugation templates to verbs except to highlight archaic forms. Yet I see you added {{en-conj-simple}} to verbs like retract without any archaic forms. Do you mind if I remove them all? Benwing2 (talk) 06:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: Note that retractest and retracteth exist. J3133 (talk) 07:10, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @J3133 Fine, but those forms need to be added and cited in such a case. You can't just slap a useless conjugation table on every verb and expect someone else to add the archaic forms. IMO they can all be removed, and readded later as needed. Benwing2 (talk) 07:14, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- I actually think even with such archaic forms, we should usually not have conjugation tables, particularly if they are predictable (as they are in this case). Benwing2 (talk) 07:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: this was back in September 2021; I cannot recall what happened then. Usually I check if archaic forms exist at Google Books, the Internet Archive, etc., exist before adding a conjugation table. It is possible that I checked, but did not have time to add quotations to the entry which has sometimes been the case. I don't agree about the predictability point, though. If we have entries for the archaic forms, then using a conjugation table seems like the best way to link them to the lemma since we don't put them in
{{en-verb}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 08:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)- I am willing to keep the tables as long as they are used to include archaic forms, but otherwise IMO they should be removed. Benwing2 (talk) 09:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: don’t forget that
{{en-conj-simple}}(now{{en-conj}}) was updated so that the default behaviour changed from always displaying archaic forms (which is what I only use the table for), to only displaying archaic forms if|old=1is added. Following this change, I actually requested on your user talk page that you do a bot run on entries to add|old=1to conjugation tables in entries that have archaic forms, but there was a discussion (at the Grease Pit?) about the operation of{{en-conj}}so no bot run has been done yet. I don’t know if there was a conclusive outcome to the discussion. Let me try to dig it up. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:05, 11 January 2023 (UTC) - @Benwing2: the discussions were at:
- — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:56, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: don’t forget that
- I am willing to keep the tables as long as they are used to include archaic forms, but otherwise IMO they should be removed. Benwing2 (talk) 09:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: this was back in September 2021; I cannot recall what happened then. Usually I check if archaic forms exist at Google Books, the Internet Archive, etc., exist before adding a conjugation table. It is possible that I checked, but did not have time to add quotations to the entry which has sometimes been the case. I don't agree about the predictability point, though. If we have entries for the archaic forms, then using a conjugation table seems like the best way to link them to the lemma since we don't put them in
- I actually think even with such archaic forms, we should usually not have conjugation tables, particularly if they are predictable (as they are in this case). Benwing2 (talk) 07:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- @J3133 Fine, but those forms need to be added and cited in such a case. You can't just slap a useless conjugation table on every verb and expect someone else to add the archaic forms. IMO they can all be removed, and readded later as needed. Benwing2 (talk) 07:14, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Joyce Ulysses.
Hi. I tried to add act=2 to the quote at girlish, but that info doesn't show up. Most annoying. Can you fiddle with the template to allow this? Van Man Fan (talk) 09:17, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
Sometimes you switch between them in the same quotation or even in the same sentence. It doesn’t seem to correlate with the original quote either. I would have assumed that ‘ ’ is for ‘quotations’ and ' is an apostrophe. Ioaxxere (talk) 17:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere: There was a discussion about this but no consensus to use one or the other exclusively. In general I use the non-curly apostrophe or single quotation mark (') and double quotation mark (") in quoted text because it is difficult for some editors to produce the curly marks. I only use the curly versions (‘’ and “”) where, for Wikitext reasons, using non-curly marks would create issues (for example, I would use curly marks in this situation: ‘'''apostrophe'''’). For consistency, I then use curly marks throughout that particular quoted text. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- That seems reasonable, but did you have different rules at one point? For example (in built different):
#* {{quote-journal|en|author=Des Bieler|quotee=]|title={{w|Charles Barkley}} blames the Warriors for Kevin Durant’s injury|newspaper={{w|The Washington Post}}|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20190617193454/https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/06/12/charles-barkley-blames-warriors-kevin-durants-injury/?utm_term=.75663129aa27|archivedate=17 June 2019|location=Washington, D.C.|publisher=]|date=12 June 2019|issn=0190-8286|oclc=638319713|passage=We fully know our bodies and what we are risking especially at the professional level. {{...}} He's '''built different''' than the ppl{{sic|people}} saying he shouldn't have played. Maybe that's why they haven’t gotten where he is.}}- It seems arbitrary here. Ioaxxere (talk) 20:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere: oh, you mean in the imprint information rather than the quotation? I think this is because curly quotation marks are hard-coded into our quotation and reference templates, so it makes sense to follow that usage in chapters and titles. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:42, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
I think using ⟨'⟩ in one quotation and ⟨’⟩ in another (i.e., when surrounded by single quotation marks) seems inconsistent. J3133 (talk) 03:39, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:lengthman.
How do you find quotations?
I notice that you often add a lot of Early Modern English quotations. Is there a way to quickly search through all of the RQ works to quickly collect quotations? On the Internet Archive and Google Books, using date filtering produces a lot of garbage for the most part. Ioaxxere (talk) 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- I'm interested too! I just do refined searches on Google, Internet Archive, and similar. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 18:13, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere, Geographyinitiative: I have a subscription to OED Online so I have a look at the quotations listed in the entries there. As these are generally quotations from old works, they can also be seen in the first edition of the OED (known as the New English Dictionary): see the links at
{{R:Oxford English Dictionary}}. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:37, 25 March 2023 (UTC) - I do also conduct searches using Google Books and the HathiTrust Digital Library using date filtering (for example, 1500–1799 and 1800–1899). However, as you have probably found, the dating of the works on these websites is sometimes inaccurate. Also, as the OCR is sometimes inaccurate, you sometimes have to try replacing long esses (ſ) with f to see if anything pops up, like this: "
poffeffes". It's harder to do a date-filtered search using the Internet Archive, but sometimes I will rearrange the search results by date of publication and then look through the earliest dates. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:43, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere, Geographyinitiative: I have a subscription to OED Online so I have a look at the quotations listed in the entries there. As these are generally quotations from old works, they can also be seen in the first edition of the OED (known as the New English Dictionary): see the links at
Template:col3 and relatives
These templates make orange links of any term that is not in the language indicated by parameter 1. Many of the derived terms sections I work on have both Translingual and English terms in them. All the terms in one or the other, but usually in Translingual (outside {{taxlink}}), will necessarily show up as orange, instead of blue, indicating that there is no L2 section in the language required, ie, usually Translingual. The "orange" preference is set by a gadget that provides as follows: "Colors links with a language name as anchor if there is no entry for that language on the page linked to." (I can't actually make sense of these words.) DCDuring (talk) 19:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- You should be able to get round that by using a manual link template for those terms within the column template. Perhaps we should update it so that it’s a bit more straightforward to do it, though, as this issue has come up elsewhere. Theknightwho (talk) 19:27, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring, Theknightwho: I see. This is rather inconvenient for any editor who does not use (or indeed did not know of the existence) of this gadget; from what I could see, all the blue links stayed blue and all the red links stayed red. Seems like we need a better solution for column templates, then. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw @DCDuring It’s possible to specify other things in the column template with syntax like this:
|XXX<t:YYY>. We could have|XXX<lang:YYY>. This would be a good solution for Chinese entries with non-Mandarin derived terms, too. Pinging @Wpi31 @Justinrleung @Benwing2 @Erutuon. Theknightwho (talk) 19:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)- Could I do that now or are coding changes needed? DCDuring (talk) 19:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring At the moment, you’d need to put
|{{l|mul|XXX}}. This becomes more relevant when dealing with large numbers of terms, as it’s a lot less efficient to process a bunch of link templates inside the column one. Angle brackets don’t have that problem. Theknightwho (talk) 19:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)- Then why don't we not use that family of template when there are translingual entries in the table, until there is a better solution. It is the large tables where the editing becomes a PITA. It should be easy to tell which tables as they should be within parentheses. In any event they are mostly terms involving organisms. DCDuring (talk) 23:12, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring At the moment, you’d need to put
- Could I do that now or are coding changes needed? DCDuring (talk) 19:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- AFAIT, the big "advantage" of the "col" family of templates is alphabetization of unalphabetized input. This makes apparent duplicates, a good thing. Unfortunately, it make tedious the task of weeding them out. The other advantage is a smaller number of keystrokes, mostly by eliminating typing of connected with
{{l}}or{{l-lite}}. But this forces Translingual entries to show orange. For tables in English and Translingual L2 sections simply using straight wikitext is simpler with no bad consequences for viewers or editors. DCDuring (talk) 19:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)- @DCDuring, Theknightwho I can add the
<lang:...>syntax. I was also planning on adding<qq:...>to make converting{{zh-der}}easier, and the code that processes these modifiers is straightforward and easy to extend in any case. Benwing2 (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)- @Benwing2 Thanks. I think it would make sense to add the language name as a label before the term, except in the case of
mul. That would be very handy for the Chinese lists. - In terms of sorting, I guess it should keep using the primary language. Theknightwho (talk) 20:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Theknightwho, Benwing2: As to sorting, yes, the primary language, which should be the language of the L2 section, at least in the cases I am familiar with.
- Where could I see the proposed syntax in operation in some existing use? DCDuring (talk) 21:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2 Thanks. I think it would make sense to add the language name as a label before the term, except in the case of
- @DCDuring, Theknightwho I can add the
- @Sgconlaw @DCDuring It’s possible to specify other things in the column template with syntax like this:
- @DCDuring, Theknightwho: I see. This is rather inconvenient for any editor who does not use (or indeed did not know of the existence) of this gadget; from what I could see, all the blue links stayed blue and all the red links stayed red. Seems like we need a better solution for column templates, then. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
By the way, do our column templates treat terms with no markup and terms marked up with ], {{l}}, or {{vern}} the same for alphabetization purposes? Seems like they should. — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw Yes. Theknightwho (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Theknightwho: ah, excellent! — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
DNA
Tbh I find it really untidy that so many sections have columns and then one doesn't just because it "doesn't have enough terms". Also, the thing is with col-auto is it's also based on the screen size, so it's better for readers. Vininn126 (talk) 22:14, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Vininn126: if only there was a way to have the best of both worlds. I still think it’s awkward to have different numbers of columns in adjacent tables. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:31, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- So maybe we set the columns for that related terms sections. The sudden random list is an eyesore Vininn126 (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Vininn126: OK, then. Maybe make then all three-column tables since there are so few terms in the last table. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
- So maybe we set the columns for that related terms sections. The sudden random list is an eyesore Vininn126 (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
The new version had way too much clutter and required too much effort to find the link to the actual word as opposed to the name of dictionary editor etc. DCDuring (talk) 18:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
RQ templates for newspapers
Asking you because you create a lot of RQ templates—do you think it would be useful to create RQ templates for major newspapers? As a test, I've created {{RQ:NYT Online}} and a few others to gather people's opinions. You would be able to do {{RQ:NYT Online|author=(author)|title=(title)|date=(date)|archiveurl=(url)|passage=(passage)}} which saves quite a few characters by automatically filling in several fields. We could even make it more sophisticated by have it fill in the editor= field based on the article's date. Ultimately, the goal is to standardize all of our quotation formats to allow for a more consistent and polished feel to the website and to make it easier to create nice quotations. What do you think? Ioaxxere (talk) 02:48, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere: I guess it should be OK. I didn’t create such templates previously because editors have to specify pretty much all the information including the URL (unlike books, where this can be built into the template and editors can just provide the page number), so it’s only a slight benefit over just using
{{quote-journal}}directly. But there are benefits like providing a newspaper’s ISSN and editors, so why not? — Sgconlaw (talk) 05:28, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- I removed the "online" bit from the names. Concisenes... — This unsigned comment was added by Skisckis (talk • contribs) at 23:13, 17 May 2023.
- @Ioaxxere: yes, that makes sense. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:51, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- That wasn't me. I'm still not sure that an online resource and a physical newspaper should be quoted the same (for example, in the case of an article or blog post only published online). Ioaxxere (talk) 13:56, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere: Oh. Basically I have not been distinguishing between them, because a lot of what is on the website also appears in print, and that is the case for other newspapers like The Guardian. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- That wasn't me. I'm still not sure that an online resource and a physical newspaper should be quoted the same (for example, in the case of an article or blog post only published online). Ioaxxere (talk) 13:56, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Ioaxxere: yes, that makes sense. — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:51, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- I removed the "online" bit from the names. Concisenes... — This unsigned comment was added by Skisckis (talk • contribs) at 23:13, 17 May 2023.
edition edition
Hi. Between Benwing, you, and I (did two already), we can probably clean up these instances of edition edition Ñobody Elz (talk) 07:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
page page
As above, these ones Ñobody Elz (talk) 07:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Ñobody Elz: I suggest you make a request on Benwing2's talk page for a bot run. Sounds easy enough. — Sgconlaw (talk) 08:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2 Ñobody Elz (talk) 08:19, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Dekker Webster Northward Hoe.
Images in WOTD
I don't remember ever seeing an image (except for a color swatch) in a WOTD. Is that policy, preference, accident? DCDuring (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: do you mean in the actual WOTD on the Main Page? I recall someone suggested it in the past but there wasn’t much enthusiasm for it. I personally don’t mind. Maybe bring it up at the Beer Parlour? — Sgconlaw (talk) 04:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
- There are some amusing vernacular names of organisms, made more amusing by the appearance of the organisms. I'll try BP. DCDuring (talk) 13:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: go for it! You have my support. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:11, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
- There are some amusing vernacular names of organisms, made more amusing by the appearance of the organisms. I'll try BP. DCDuring (talk) 13:45, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Greyish Worm unwanted redirects
I found the following RQ: templates created by Wonderfool under the name Greyish Worm. Most of them should be deleted; let me know which ones and I'll run my rename script.
(change visibility) 16:08, November 23, 2022 diff hist +53 N Template:RQ:Orwell 1984 Redirected page to Template:RQ:Orwell Nineteen Eighty-Four current thank Tags: New redirect no-documentation
November 13, 2022
(change visibility) 04:19, November 13, 2022 diff hist +45 N Template:RQ:Robertson Charles V Redirected page to Template:RQ:Robertson Charles 5 current thank Tags: New redirect no-documentation
November 9, 2022
(change visibility) 19:23, November 9, 2022 diff hist +71 N Template:RQ:Brimson Art of Fart Created page with "{{quote-book|en|2012|passage={{{passage}}}|Dougie Brimson|Art of Fart}}" thank Tag: no-documentation
November 1, 2022
(change visibility) 20:17, November 1, 2022 diff hist +41 N Template:RQ:Scott Fair Maid of Perth Redirected page to Template:RQ:Scott Fair Maid thank Tags: New redirect no-documentation
October 25, 2022
(change visibility) 04:27, October 25, 2022 diff hist +156 N Template:RQ:Williams Velveteen Rabbit Created page with "{{quote-book |en |author = {{w|Margery Williams}} |title = {{w|The Velveteen Rabbit}} |year = 1922 }}<noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>" thank
October 19, 2022
(change visibility) 15:58, October 19, 2022 diff hist +54 N Template:RQ:Irving Tales from the Alhambra GreyishWorm moved page Template:RQ:Irving Tales from the Alhambra to Template:RQ:Irving Tales of the Alhambra current thank Tag: New redirect
October 12, 2022
(change visibility) 09:46, October 12, 2022 diff hist +439 N Template:RQ:Fry Liar Created page with "{{quote-book |en |author = {{w|Stephen Fry}} |chapter = {{{chapter|{{{1|}}}}}} |title = The Liar |location = |publisher = |year = 1991 |page = {{{page|{{{2|}}}}}} |pages = |pageurl = |oclc = |passage = {{{text|{{{passage|{{{3|}}}}}}}}} |footer = {{#if:{{{footer|}}}|{{small|{{{footer}}}}}}} |brackets = {{{brackets|}}} }}<noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>" thank
October 8, 2022
(change visibility) 14:40, October 8, 2022 diff hist +43 N Template:RQ:Lewis Babbitt Main Street This'll eventually get cleared up current thank Tags: New redirect no-documentation
October 4, 2022
(change visibility) 05:28, October 4, 2022 diff hist +158 N Template:RQ:King Mist Created page with "{{#invoke:quote|call_quote_template |en |author = Stephen King |title = {{w|The Mist (novella)|The Mist}} |year = 1980 }}" thank Tag: no-documentation
September 28, 2022
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(change visibility) 03:14, September 28, 2022 diff hist +29 N Template:RQ:Darwin The Descent of Man Created page with "{{RQ:Darwin Descent of Man }}" thank Tag: no-documentation
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Benwing2 (talk) 10:45, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, @Benwing2. I went through the above list, and I think the following redirects can be replaced:
{{RQ:Orwell 1984}}can be retained as a shortcut. I manually replaced and deleted some of the redirects that only had a few uses. The rest of the templates seem OK; I'll tidy them up. — Sgconlaw (talk) 02:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
quote-* changes
I made a bunch of changes to the Module:quote and hence to the quote-* templates:
- All params that can take foreign text (including less obvious ones like page/volume/line/etc.) can be prefixed by a language code and followed by inline modifiers to specify a translation, transliteration, transcription and script code. You can see some examples in User:Benwing2/test-quote. When a language code is specified, script detection and tagging is done per the allowed scripts of that language, to ensure that text in a foreign script is correctly displayed. Even without a language code, script detection and tagging is still done unless the text contains HTML (which may indicate it was already processed using
{{lang}}) or is ASCII-only; this usesfindBestScriptWithoutLang()in Module:scripts, which has listings of character ranges and associated scripts and looks up the text in these ranges. - Numeric param handling is harmonized. All of pages, columns, lines, issues and volumes now work the same way. E.g. for pages,
|page=and|pages=are synonyms and whether to saypage ...orpages ...is autodetected based on whether there's a hyphen, en-dash, em-dash or similar page number separator. This should fix a lot of issues: people routinely put single page numbers in|pages=and ranges in|page=. There's also|page_plain=, which is analogous to|volume_plain=and can be used if the autodetection is wrong. Finally, there's|pageurl=for a URL. Issues, lines, etc. work the same, e.g.|issue=and|issues=are synonyms and there's also|issue_plain=and|issueurl=. - Arbitrary numbers of authors are supported, not just 5. BTW I am going to implement author splitting so you can put all the authors in the
|author=param, separated by semicolons (ideally) or commas. See the existing BP discussion about this involving User:DCDuring (there's also a discussion about this on User talk:JeffDoozan). - The code is stricter in checking for things that shouldn't happen, e.g. specifying both
|page=and|pages=or both|editor=and|editors=. This will necessitate fixing a bunch of existing issues. Eventually I hope to implement full parameter checking so that misspelled parameters lead to an error. (There are over 2,000 current cases of quote-* templates with misspelled or unrecognized params.)
For #4, we need to be more careful in the use and propagation of |pageref=; you'll see several places where I fixed issues that were leading to both |page= and |pages= being specified. I would actually like to talk to you about eliminating |pageref= in most cases; it's a simple matter to extract the first page number from a range like |pages=238–239 and use it in place of manually specifying it. How often does it occur that the page in |pageref= is not and cannot be specified as the first page of the range? Benwing2 (talk) 07:31, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: thanks. Regarding
|pageref=, I would imagine that it is quite frequent that the webpage to be linked to is not the first page of the range, so I don't think the parameter can be eliminated entirely. (Though perhaps it can be made to default to the first page? I don't know if this is a good idea.) Essentially it needs to be used when a quotation spans two pages to indicate which page the highlighted term appears on, and this could either be the first or second page of the range. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)- I see, this makes sense, thanks. Benwing2 (talk) 18:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
PMID vs. PMCID
Hi. I am trying to clean up unrecognized params and several journal articles have a |pmcid= param. I looked this up and it seems all PubMed articles have a PMID number, and some in addition have a PMCID number (which is different). You can always look up an article by PMID, so the PMCID is superfluous. Do you mind me removing it wherever it occurs? I'd like to avoid having unrecognized params so eventually we can implement param checking. Benwing2 (talk) 08:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: sure, that seems fine to me. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:02, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello. As you are the main contributor to Template:RQ:Dekker Dramatic Works, I'd like to tell you about a problem with the template that I wasn't able to fix. Showing up on murrain, the years aren't in bold, while first performance; published is in bold. Pious Eterino (talk) 17:32, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- This is because I made a change in the handling of years, so if there's already boldface, it doesn't boldface the year. In this template you're using boldface in a strange way. You could fix this by simply boldfacing the years rather than trying to work around the no-longer-happening boldface, if that makes sense. Benwing2 (talk) 19:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry Ben, not sure if your message was aimed at Sgconlaw or at me. I must admit the message doesn't make sense to me, but I've never ventured into templates before! Pious Eterino (talk) 20:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: ah. A number of quotation templates use wikitext in the
|year=field to modify the boldface based on how it used to work before your changed it. For example, in{{RQ:Dekker Dramatic Works}}, the year is coded as "1599''' (first performance; published '''1600''')'''​" to produce the output "1599 (first performance; published 1600)". I don't know how the boldface coding now works in the version of "Module:quote" you have updated, but I suppose all such quotation templates will now need to be updated. (@Pious Eterino: for your information.) — Sgconlaw (talk) 21:38, 5 August 2023 (UTC)- @Sgconlaw OK, I'll check all the English quotation templates and fix them as needed. Basically, it just checks for
'''in the year and doesn't add boldface around the year in that case. I think this is cleaner than always adding it and requiring template coders to do hacks like what{{RQ:Dekker Dramatic Works}}does. Benwing2 (talk) 01:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)- BTW I have added support for
a.,c.andp.to all year and date params (e.g.|origyear=,|year_published=). Benwing2 (talk) 02:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)- OK, I have converted all the English quotation templates appropriately; it took a few hours. In general all the use of Unicode zero-width spaces went away. Let me know if there are any non-English ones to beware of, or if you see any remaining issues with boldfacing in dates in quotation templates. Benwing2 (talk) 05:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: OK, thanks! — Sgconlaw (talk) 05:27, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- OK, I have converted all the English quotation templates appropriately; it took a few hours. In general all the use of Unicode zero-width spaces went away. Let me know if there are any non-English ones to beware of, or if you see any remaining issues with boldfacing in dates in quotation templates. Benwing2 (talk) 05:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- BTW I have added support for
- @Sgconlaw OK, I'll check all the English quotation templates and fix them as needed. Basically, it just checks for
- @Benwing2: ah. A number of quotation templates use wikitext in the
- Sorry Ben, not sure if your message was aimed at Sgconlaw or at me. I must admit the message doesn't make sense to me, but I've never ventured into templates before! Pious Eterino (talk) 20:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
ISBN10 vs. ISBN13
Hi, what's the difference between the two, and if both are present, which one is preferred? Several quotes have both an |isbn= (13-digit) and an |isbn10= (10-digit), or sometimes both an |isbn= (10-digit) and an |isbn13= (13 digit). Benwing2 (talk) 02:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: ISBNs were originally ten digits long, then from 2007 they converted them to 13-digit ones. I believe the standard is now to use 13-digit ISBNs. A ten-digit ISBN can be converted to a 13-digit one beginning with "978", and vice versa. I usually use https://www.loc.gov/programs/preassigned-control-number/isbn-converter/. As the "978" numbers have started to run out, ISBNs beginning with "979" have started to be issued. These cannot be converted to ten-digit ISBNs. — Sgconlaw (talk) 03:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
year_translated
While cleaning up unrecognized quote params, I've encountered various uses of |year_translated=. How should this be handled? For example:
{{quote-book|ru|year=1935|author=Владимир Владимирович Набоков<t:]>|title=ru:Приглашение на казнь|trans-title=]|chapter=1|passage=] ] до́лго ] ] Цинцинна́товой ], — ] ] ], — ] '''возня́'''. ] ] ].|translation=Rodion, the jailer, took a long time to unlock the door of Cincinnatus’ cell — it was the wrong key — and there was the usual '''fuss'''. At last the door yielded.|translator=Dmitri Nabokov<!-- |year_translated=1959-->}}
which gives
- Тюре́мщик Родио́н до́лго отпира́л дверь Цинцинна́товой ка́меры, — не тот ключ, — всегда́шняя возня́. Дверь наконе́ц уступи́ла.
- Tjurémščik Rodión dólgo otpirál dverʹ Cincinnátovoj kámery, — ne tot ključ, — vsegdášnjaja voznjá. Dverʹ nakonéc ustupíla.
- Rodion, the jailer, took a long time to unlock the door of Cincinnatus’ cell — it was the wrong key — and there was the usual fuss. At last the door yielded.
I know about specifying the translator as the author and using |original= and |by=, but that doesn't allow you to include the original text, and it seems a lot of rewriting just to include the year translated. Should we add support for this? Benwing2 (talk) 01:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: I suppose the need to specify both the year of publication of a work and of its translation would arise only in non-English entries. I think in situations like this the second set of parameters should be used, like this:
{{quote-book|ru|author=Владимир Владимирович Набоков<t:]>|chapter=1|title=ru:Приглашение на казнь|location=Moscow|publisher=Just Testing|year=1935|newversion=translated as|translator2={{w|Dmitri Nabokov}}|title2=]|location2=London|publisher2=Testing Again|year2=1959|passage=] ] до́лго ] ] Цинцинна́товой ], — ] ] ], — ] '''возня́'''. ] ] ].|translation=Rodion, the jailer, took a long time to unlock the door of Cincinnatus’ cell — it was the wrong key — and there was the usual '''fuss'''. At last the door yielded.}}- 1935, Владимир Владимирович Набоков , chapter 1, in Приглашение на казнь , Moscow: Just Testing; translated as Dmitri Nabokov, transl., Invitation to a Beheading, London: Testing Again, 1959:
- Тюре́мщик Родио́н до́лго отпира́л дверь Цинцинна́товой ка́меры, — не тот ключ, — всегда́шняя возня́. Дверь наконе́ц уступи́ла.
- Tjurémščik Rodión dólgo otpirál dverʹ Cincinnátovoj kámery, — ne tot ključ, — vsegdášnjaja voznjá. Dverʹ nakonéc ustupíla.
- Rodion, the jailer, took a long time to unlock the door of Cincinnatus’ cell — it was the wrong key — and there was the usual fuss. At last the door yielded.
- In that case,
|year_translated=should be renamed|year2=. — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)- Great, thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 21:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
running column in a newspaper
Another question concerns this:
{{quote-journal|en|date=2013-07-12|title=The Monetary Debate: Enter Chewbacca|author={{w|Paul Krugman}}|site=The Conscience of a Liberal|newspaper={{w|The New York Times}}|url=http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/the-monetary-debate-enter-chewbacca/|passage=But at this point John Taylor, at least — and I believe he's not alone — has gone full '''Chewbacca defense'''.}}
Here we have a regular op-ed column called The Conscience of a Liberal. How do we fit this in? Benwing2 (talk) 03:11, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- BTW I have found at least three other such instances, all using the
|site=param. Benwing2 (talk) 03:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- @Benwing2: I usually just add the name of the column to the title of the article, like this:
|title=The conscience of a liberal: The monetary debate: Enter Chewbacca. — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- OK, thanks. I wonder if we could support this more formally somehow using a separate param (in general, think of the
{{quote-*}}templates as expressing the semantics of the bibliographic info; so it's better to have a way of expressing things like this using separate params, than jamming everything together). Only issue is what to call the column or series: both|column=and|series=are already in use for different things. Maybe|article_series=, on the theory that|series=really expresses the series that the journal itself is part of? Benwing2 (talk) 07:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- @Benwing2: I guess I have no objections. Yes, I suppose
|article_series=is a suitable name, though this will need to be explained in the documentation. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- I implemented this. The parameter in Module:quote is called
|chapter_series=and has a corresponding|chapter_seriesvolume=param. These are renamed to|title_series=and|title_seriesvolume=in{{quote-journal}}, since it generally uses|title=to refer to an article and maps it to the underlying|chapter=param. An example:{{quote-journal|en|date=2013-07-12|title=The Monetary Debate: Enter Chewbacca|author={{w|Paul Krugman}}|article_series=The Conscience of a Liberal|newspaper={{w|The New York Times}}|url=http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/the-monetary-debate-enter-chewbacca/|passage=But at this point John Taylor, at least — and I believe he's not alone — has gone full '''Chewbacca defense'''.}}
- which generates
- 2013 July 12, Paul Krugman, “The Monetary Debate: Enter Chewbacca”, The Conscience of a Liberal, in The New York Times:
- But at this point John Taylor, at least — and I believe he's not alone — has gone full Chewbacca defense.
- At first I put the
|title_series=value in parens after the chapter, preceded by in, something like this:- 2013 July 12, Paul Krugman, “The Monetary Debate: Enter Chewbacca” (in The Conscience of a Liberal), in The New York Times:
- But at this point John Taylor, at least — and I believe he's not alone — has gone full Chewbacca defense.
- But maybe it looks better the current way. What do you think? Benwing2 (talk) 06:12, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I implemented this. The parameter in Module:quote is called
- @Benwing2: I guess I have no objections. Yes, I suppose
- OK, thanks. I wonder if we could support this more formally somehow using a separate param (in general, think of the
- @Benwing2: I usually just add the name of the column to the title of the article, like this:
newspaper agency/source
I have found several quote templates with an |agency= or |source= param trying to indicate the syndicate (e.g. AP, UPI, Reuters, AFP, Catholic News Agency, Dow Jones Newswires) that produced the newspaper article, e.g.
{{quote-journal|en|title='Sundown' Policy Is Alleged|agency=United Press|work=]|location=Coos Bay, Oregon|date=December 24, 1958|page=2|url=https://www.newspapers.com/clip/29377202/|via=Newspapers.com|passage=Some members of civil rights organizations present said they have heard that Negroes seeking housing in the town]]s had been intimidated and that 'vamoose' warnings have been in vogue for the past year.}}
and
{{quote-journal|en|journal=The Australian|title=Poor access leads to DIY '''dentistry''': dental checks|author=Siobhain Ryan|source=Dow Jones Newswires|year=2009|passage=POOR Australians are resorting to do-it-yourself '''dentistry''', including filing their own teeth and attempting their own extractions, because of lengthy queues for public dental services.}}
Note in this one also the use of |via= to indicate the website where the article is archived. I deleted |via=Google Books wherever it occurred on the theory that this info isn't terribly relevant and is available in the URL; maybe I should do the same here.
How should this be handled? Do we need an extra param to {{quote-journal}} for this? Benwing2 (talk) 06:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: hmmm. I'd suggest as follows:
- If the article is directly from the news agency's website, then use
{{quote-web}}and specify the news agency as the website name. - If the article is reproduced on another website (for example, one published by a newspaper) and does not have a named author, the news agency can be stated as the author. If the article does have a named author, perhaps then indicate
|author={{w|Philip Crowther}}, {{w|Associated Press}}.
- If the article is directly from the news agency's website, then use
- — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. Here also maybe we should support an
|agency=or|news_source=param, so we can format it correctly. Benwing2 (talk) 07:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- @Benwing2: sure. Perhaps
|agency=is clearer than|news_source=. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: sure. Perhaps
- Thanks. Here also maybe we should support an
stanza #
How should we handle stanza numbers? E.g.
{{quote-book|enm|year=a.1375|author={{w|Gawain Poet}}|title={{w|Sir Gawain and the Green Knight|Sir Gawayn and þe Grene Knyȝt}}|stanza=22|page=97r|lines=500-502|passage= forþi þis '''ȝol''' ouerȝede and þe ȝere after / and vche ſeſoun ſerlepes ſued after oþer / after cryſtenmaſſe com þe crabbed lentoun / |translation=And this ''']''' went, and the year with (it); / each season followed alone after the last. / After Christmas came spiteful Lent,{{...}}}}
In the following, I use |issue_plain= (which is now supported) for this; maybe there's a better way:
{{quote-book|enm|year=a. 1375|author={{w|Gawain Poet}}|title={{w|Sir Gawain and the Green Knight|Sir Gawayn and þe Grene Knyȝt}}|issue_plain=stanza 22|page=97r|lines=500–502|passage= forþi þis '''ȝol''' ouerȝede and þe ȝere after / and vche ſeſoun ſerlepes ſued after oþer / after cryſtenmaſſe com þe crabbed lentoun / |translation=And this ''']''' went, and the year with (it); / each season followed alone after the last. / After Christmas came spiteful Lent,{{...}}}}
which displays like this:
- forþi þis ȝol ouerȝede and þe ȝere after / and vche ſeſoun ſerlepes ſued after oþer / after cryſtenmaſſe com þe crabbed lentoun /
- And this Christmastide went, and the year with (it); / each season followed alone after the last. / After Christmas came spiteful Lent,
Thoughts?
Benwing2 (talk) 06:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: I have been using
|section=stanza 22for this. — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:42, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- I see, the output looks like this which is the same:
- a. 1375, Gawain Poet, Sir Gawayn and þe Grene Knyȝt, stanza 22, page 97r, lines 500–502:
- forþi þis ȝol ouerȝede and þe ȝere after / and vche ſeſoun ſerlepes ſued after oþer / after cryſtenmaſſe com þe crabbed lentoun /
- And this Christmastide went, and the year with (it); / each season followed alone after the last. / After Christmas came spiteful Lent,
- Thanks again. Benwing2 (talk) 06:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
one more ... how to handle comments in a website?
Sorry to keep bothering you with these questions. One more question concerns comments on a website. Here is an example:
{{quote-journal|en|date=February 4, 2008 |work=First Showing |title=Another New Trailer for Taken with Liam Neeson (Comments) |volume= |number= |author=anti-zionist|passage=This movie must have been deemed too morally righteous when it came out in 2008 for the usual '''scatporn''' loving jewish hollywood execs to release in America.}}
The sentiment expressed here is pretty repugnant but it does illustrate the word in question. It comes from this URL https://www.firstshowing.net/2008/another-new-trailer-for-taken-with-liam-neeson/, from comment 32 by author "anti-zionist". How should this be reformatted to express this? Maybe using |format=? Benwing2 (talk) 06:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing: or maybe
|section=comments section? — Sgconlaw (talk) 06:52, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- Note that I just added support for
|chapter_number=and|chapter_plain=(plus|section_number=and|section_plain=), which can be specified in conjunction with|chapter=and|section=, so you could write|section=comments sectionalong with|section_plain=comment 32and it will display something like "comments section (comment 32)". I use this functionality now in{{quote-song}}to support|track=,|time=and|at=displayed in parens directly after the song title (which is stored into the underlying|chapter=argument, so the track/time/at values are stored into|chapter_plain=). Benwing2 (talk) 07:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- @Benwing2: OK. I hope I remember all this! — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- I will document it. I'm planning on writing some code to make it easier to avoid duplication in the documentation for quote-*. Benwing2 (talk) 18:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: OK. I hope I remember all this! — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note that I just added support for
platform= or aggregator=
Hi, one more thing I'm thinking of supporting is an |aggregator= or |platform= param for things like YouTube, Issuu, Newspapers.com, Magzter and the like, as in the following, where it's specified using the |via= param:
{{quote-journal|en|title=Corrections|journal=]|location=Joliet, Illinois|publisher=Shaw Media|date=2015-08-05|page=2|url=https://issuu.com/shawmedia/docs/jhn-8-5-2015/2|via=Issuu|passage=A '''refer''' on page 1 of the Tuesday, Aug. 4, 2015, edition of The Herald-News contained incorrect information about the story “Neighbors at odds over Joliet liquor license” that appeared on Page 4 of the same edition.}}
This is similar to the |network= param of {{quote-av}}. I was originally thinking of using the name |aggregator=. However, Wikipedia refers to Issuu as an "electronic publishing platform", YouTube as a "social media platform" and Magzter as a "digital newsstand" (which in turn is defined as a "digital distribution platform"), so maybe |platform= is better, although it seems potentially more ambiguous than "aggregator". In particular, {{quote-video game}} already uses |platform= for a different purpose (a "computing platform"), although since {{quote-video game}} is barely used, we could easily rename this param to something else. What do you think? Benwing2 (talk) 21:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2: yeah,
|platform=is probably better. — Sgconlaw (talk) 22:42, 9 August 2023 (UTC)- Thanks. I will rename
|platform=in{{quote-video game}}to|system=(other possibilities are|architecture=or|compute_platform=, but both are long). Benwing2 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)- I have implemented
|source=generically for the source of content (which is called|newsagency=in{{quote-journal}}) and|platform=for the platform that content is published via. Example using both:
- I have implemented
- Thanks. I will rename
{{quote-journal|en|title='Sundown' Policy Is Alleged|newsagency=United Press|work=]|location=Coos Bay, Oregon|date=December 24, 1958|page=2|url=https://www.newspapers.com/clip/29377202/|platform=Newspapers.com|passage=Some members of civil rights organizations present said they have heard that Negroes seeking housing in the town]]s had been intimidated and that 'vamoose' warnings have been in vogue for the past year.}}
which produces
- Some members of civil rights organizations present said they have heard that Negroes seeking housing in the towns had been intimidated and that 'vamoose' warnings have been in vogue for the past year.
I'm not completely sure about the wording ("sourced from" and "via"). Note that if you specify both |year_published=/|date_published= and |platform=, it omits the comma between them, e.g.:
{{quote-journal|en|title='Sundown' Policy Is Alleged|newsagency=United Press|work=]|location=Coos Bay, Oregon|date=December 24, 1958|page=2|url=https://www.newspapers.com/clip/29377202/|date_published=January 3, 1959|platform=Newspapers.com|passage=Some members of civil rights organizations present said they have heard that Negroes seeking housing in the town]]s had been intimidated and that 'vamoose' warnings have been in vogue for the past year.}}
which produces
- Some members of civil rights organizations present said they have heard that Negroes seeking housing in the towns had been intimidated and that 'vamoose' warnings have been in vogue for the past year.
Thoughts? Benwing2 (talk) 03:00, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
quoted_in=, by=/original= vs. newversion=
Can quotes using |quoted_in= always be replaced by |newversion= and the second set of params? If so should they in general? Likewise with |by= and |original=. It is confusing to have multiple ways of doing something, and should be documented better. For example, I am trying to clean up the following:
{{quote-journal|en|year=1971|author=H. E. Wilkie Young|coauthors=Elie Khadouri|quoted_in=Mosul in 1909|journal={{w|Middle Eastern Studies}}|volume=7|page=229|pageurl=https://doi.org/10.1080/00263207108700177|quotee=William Taylor|title=Narratives of Identity: The Syrian Orthodox Church and the Church of England|ISBN=1443869465|page 207|passage=When it is all over they merge and go in a body to visit the Telegraph Office – with plausible expressions of regret and excuses for the mob ‘which’ they say ‘is deplorably ignorant and will not be restrained when its feelings are strongly moved’ – '''sic''', the fact being that the mob’s feelings will never be ‘moved’ unless it is by one of them.}}
Here, there is an article "Mosul in 1909" in Middle Eastern Studies, 1971, volume 7 number 2 , which contains an introduction by Elie Khadouri, quoting a dispatch (despatch No. 4, January 28, 1909, "Notes on the City of Mosul", by H. E. Wilkie Young, in F.O. 195/2308), containing the text in question. Complex cases like this are often confused; in this case for example I have no idea what the Narratives of Identity: The Syrian Orthodox Church and the Church of England is doing, maybe it's bad copypasta from some other template. An additional issue here is that the original text is a dispatch (maybe using {{quote-book}}?) but it's quoted in a journal article. How should this be fixed? Benwing2 (talk) 06:01, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- BTW I came up with this:
{{quote-book|en|date=January 28 1909|author=H. E. Wilkie Young|chapter=Notes on the City of Mosul|chapter_plain=despatch No. 4|title=Foreign Office|volume=195|issue=2308|newversion=quoted in|year2=1971|2ndauthor=Elie Khadouri|chapter2=Mosul in 1909|title2={{w|Middle Eastern Studies}}|volume2=7|issue2=2|page2=229|url2=https://www.jstor.org/stable/4282373|jstor2=4282373|passage=When it is all over they merge and go in a body to visit the Telegraph Office – with plausible expressions of regret and excuses for the mob ‘which’ they say ‘is deplorably ignorant and will not be restrained when its feelings are strongly moved’ – '''sic''', the fact being that the mob’s feelings will never be ‘moved’ unless it is by one of them.}}- which produces
- When it is all over they merge and go in a body to visit the Telegraph Office – with plausible expressions of regret and excuses for the mob ‘which’ they say ‘is deplorably ignorant and will not be restrained when its feelings are strongly moved’ – sic, the fact being that the mob’s feelings will never be ‘moved’ unless it is by one of them.
- I don't know whether this is the best possible way. Benwing2 (talk) 06:08, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note, this uses
|chapter_plain=, which is the "plain" equivalent of|chapter_number=(cf.|volume=vs.|volume_plain=), which is used to add a chapter number to a named chapter. Benwing2 (talk) 06:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
documentation
I wrote a module to generate documentation for {{quote-*}} templates, to avoid having to copy changes to the doc pages for all 12 of them. You can see the output so far in the {{quote-book}} documentation. Let me know what you think. In particular, I split the parameters into groups; maybe it would make more sense to merge all the groups into a single table, with gray headers at the top of each group, so that the columns are all the same width. 06:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC) Benwing2 (talk) 06:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- New output now used for
{{quote-journal}}. Benwing2 (talk) 07:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Harper Lee Mockingbird.
A Dictionary of Singlish and Singapore English
There are a lot of interesting terms from Singlish documented on your website that are missing from Wiktionary. Would you be interested in releasing it under a free license? Ioaxxere (talk) 19:35, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:paroptic.
- Discussion moved to Talk:of one's own accord.
- Discussion moved to Wiktionary:Tea room/2023/October.
Updating quotations
Don't forget to update the appropriate Wiktionary:Quotations/Templates sub-pages when you do (hint, hint). Chuck Entz (talk) 20:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: oh yeah, not sure why I keep forgetting! — Sgconlaw (talk) 20:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Can you recreate this? Denazz (talk) 09:16, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Needs SG attention Fond of sanddunes (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
wampum and template and italics
Hello! You reverted my edit here: . That's fine, and I understand it, but it suggests that there is a problem with the template, and perhaps we should get the wiki programmers onto it, to fix it. My edit should have been fine, and your reverted version (while it looks visually better) lacks in semantics. If you want to be the perfect gentleman, you could raise it at WT:GP. Equinox ◑ 22:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Ugh, looking at your three edits since, I can't tell whether you fixed it or buried it. Like the 1990s Web designer trying to comprehend the shadow DOM. Re: RFD: yes, I am a bad attitude, and yes, sometimes I should step back (even if I'm right). Doing so. Cheers. Once my best friend was a Singaporean but she died. Equinox ◑ 05:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Equinox: I'll raise the template issue at the Grease Pit, or just drop a message on the template talk page for our in-house experts. Sorry to hear about your friend. — Sgconlaw (talk) 05:27, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
urls added following RQ templates
There are many instances of urls being added following various RQ templates, which causes a link to the url appear on a separate line (ie, templates have a newline). It looks particularly grotesque when it follows the antiquarian bibliographic details. Is it due to there being no appropriate parameter in the templates, to users giving up on finding such a parameter, to users being unaware of the newline and not looking at what they've done or looking and thinking it's someone else's job to put the url they found into its right home, or to some other cause? It might be possible to devise a filter to prevent new instances, but that filter would also make editing other aspects of entries with the defect more annoying.
How can these defects be cleaned up, you might ask? I suppose you would need to add a url parameter to each template and document it. I am reasonably sure that one could find entries with the defect fairly easily using regex searches, from the search box for quantifying the problem and via dump-processing if the problem is as common as I think it might be. DCDuring (talk) 16:18, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- @DCDuring: could you provide an example of the issue you are highlighting? I haven't come across this. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- I noticed it twice on walk#Verb (defs. 15 and 17). DCDuring (talk) 16:45, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
RFM
Re , did one of the archivings not go through (I did find out that it's still not possible to archive multiple discussions to the same talk page in one edit...), or did you think one of the discussions should be continued and not closed? Or did you just misclick? I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me, where I almost click "rollback" while trying to click one of the other links that's right next to it... :o - -sche (discuss) 08:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- @-sche: hmmm, that must have been a slip of the finger. I certainly didn’t look at this discussion at all. — Sgconlaw (talk) 08:58, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
- It happens to the best of us! - -sche (discuss) 09:00, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Sockpuppetry from Word
@Word0000 has just made an edit on the exact same entry @Word0151 was edit warring on while he is blocked. 178.120.53.119 15:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, what entry or entries are those? — Sgconlaw (talk) 15:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- दर्ज 178.120.53.119 15:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: is there sufficient evidence of sockpuppetry by Word0151? On the other hand, 178.120.53.119, I don't speak Hindi and am not able to assess the correctness of the edits made. Perhaps @Surjection can help as they have recently edited this entry. — Sgconlaw (talk) 15:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- I do think so. The second account was created when he got blocked, he's editing the same entries, he doesn't even take 10 minutes to revert me on both accounts, so same editing patterns, both accounts have the same name, only the digits change. Even if we assume he's right, he shouldn't game the system. 178.120.53.119 15:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- https://en.m.wiktionary.orghttps://dictious.com/en/User_talk:178.120.71.47 I don't think Surjection can help, he is biased against me as you can see on the link above. Plus his Babel only has Finnish and English, not Hindi. 178.120.53.119 15:34, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- All right, I have permanently blocked Word0000. If the sockpuppetry is confirmed, I will also mass-delete all contributions. If not, the user can be unblocked. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw Could I perhaps suggest an increased ban length, instead of mass deletion? It's quite extreme, and (at least on Discord) they seem sorry for it. Theknightwho (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Theknightwho: OK. I will take advice from @Chuck Entz on this, as he needs to confirm the sockpuppetry anyway. Mass deletion is certainly a deterrent, but if administrators feel the edits are not problematic (I can't tell as I don't know Hindi), I am not averse to allowing them to stand. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- There are two issues: one is sockpuppetry, which is pretty clear. I'm not going to run a check on the account to confirm the obvious. The other issue is a content dispute and edit war. The unasked question is why an IP in Belarus is edit-warring with a native speaker of Hindi over their own native language. They made a point about Surjection's Babel, but they have no Babel at all, and if they did, the numbers would probably be inflated. This IP is also known for similar behavior in Chinese entries (ask @Fish bowl), and they edit a number of other languages in various other parts of the world. Yes, they've obviously studied the dictionaries and the grammars, but when it comes to usage in languages other than one's own, book knowledge isn't enough. In one of the disputes, they actually justified removal of content by saying they checked two dictionaries and didn't see it in either one- but Hindi is a multifaceted modern language with a wealth of usage that doesn't always make it into the dictionaries. Surjection is aware of this, so it probably played a part in their blocking the IP first (the IP's argument about adhering to 3RR is inapplicable- that's a Wikipedia policy). I'm not going to weigh in on the merits of the content dispute- I hope Hindi editors will, instead. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: OK, thanks for confirming the sockpuppetry point. I guess we'll leave the Hindi entries issue to be resolved by editors active in that language. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz My bad, I thought the policy applied here too since I couldn't find a Wiktionary-specific policy. What is the policy here then, only two reverts allowed? I don't like breaking rules without knowing. 178.120.53.119 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz How many reverts until it's considered edit warring? 178.120.53.119 22:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- There are two issues: one is sockpuppetry, which is pretty clear. I'm not going to run a check on the account to confirm the obvious. The other issue is a content dispute and edit war. The unasked question is why an IP in Belarus is edit-warring with a native speaker of Hindi over their own native language. They made a point about Surjection's Babel, but they have no Babel at all, and if they did, the numbers would probably be inflated. This IP is also known for similar behavior in Chinese entries (ask @Fish bowl), and they edit a number of other languages in various other parts of the world. Yes, they've obviously studied the dictionaries and the grammars, but when it comes to usage in languages other than one's own, book knowledge isn't enough. In one of the disputes, they actually justified removal of content by saying they checked two dictionaries and didn't see it in either one- but Hindi is a multifaceted modern language with a wealth of usage that doesn't always make it into the dictionaries. Surjection is aware of this, so it probably played a part in their blocking the IP first (the IP's argument about adhering to 3RR is inapplicable- that's a Wikipedia policy). I'm not going to weigh in on the merits of the content dispute- I hope Hindi editors will, instead. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Theknightwho: OK. I will take advice from @Chuck Entz on this, as he needs to confirm the sockpuppetry anyway. Mass deletion is certainly a deterrent, but if administrators feel the edits are not problematic (I can't tell as I don't know Hindi), I am not averse to allowing them to stand. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Sgconlaw Could I perhaps suggest an increased ban length, instead of mass deletion? It's quite extreme, and (at least on Discord) they seem sorry for it. Theknightwho (talk) 16:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- All right, I have permanently blocked Word0000. If the sockpuppetry is confirmed, I will also mass-delete all contributions. If not, the user can be unblocked. — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Chuck Entz: is there sufficient evidence of sockpuppetry by Word0151? On the other hand, 178.120.53.119, I don't speak Hindi and am not able to assess the correctness of the edits made. Perhaps @Surjection can help as they have recently edited this entry. — Sgconlaw (talk) 15:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
- दर्ज 178.120.53.119 15:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Labels
How is this different from any of the other labels? I wish you'd given me a heads up before making this change so that dozens of pages weren't abruptly ripped out of their categories. Now I'm going to have to find them all again. Vergencescattered (talk) 00:17, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Vergencescattered: the relevant guideline is "Wiktionary:Context labels". These labels are intended to show that particular terms are used in specific contexts. For example, a term that is used by ornithologists would be labelled
{{lb|en|ornithology}}. (Note also that it isn't appropriate to put names of birds under this label. The label is for terms used in ornithology, not for any term related to birds in some way). In general, labels are not used to simply group related terms together. Thus, we do not have labels like "bird" or "insect". Instead, if it is thought appropriate to add a term to a category, this is done by specifying the category at the end of the entry, like this: "Category:en:Columbids" or "{{C|en|Columbids}}". Where lifeforms are concerned, we try to place them into specific categories (like "Columbids") rather than dropping them into the parent category (like "Birds"). - That being said, there appears to be some consensus that it is appropriate to have certain set-type labels. For example,
{{lb|en|musical instrument}}will display "(music)" and place terms relating to musical instruments into "Category:en:Musical instruments". However, it is good practice to start a discussion at the Beer Parlour before creating more labels of this type. — Sgconlaw (talk) 12:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
{{R:MWO}}
- Discussion moved to Template talk:R:Merriam-Webster Online.
Etymologies
- Discussion moved to Talk:exsanguinate.
Star Wars and terms derived from Star Wars
What is the rationale for your changes? I don't agree with diff. PUC – 19:41, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Chapman Bussy D'Ambois.
I'm proud of you. Denazz (talk) 00:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Template request
- Discussion moved to Template talk:RQ:Palsgrave Lesclarcissement.
Twilight Land by Howard Pyle
If you can make templates for quotations, why not make one for Twilight Land by Howard Pyle?
Could it be named "RQ:Pyle Twilight Land" or anything else?
Thanks for reading, -- Apisite (talk) 20:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
- Discussion moved to Talk:dialect.
Etymology 2 (English) of satori
- Discussion moved to Talk:satori.
Non-breaking space before ellipsis
According to The Chicago Manual of Style, “An ellipsis can begin a new line, so there is no need to precede an ellipsis by a nonbreaking space.” J3133 (talk) 16:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
- @J3133: in the absence of any specific guideline here, I have been following w:MOS:ELLIPSIS: "Generally, use a non-breaking space before an ellipsis, and a regular space after it", "ut where an ellipsis is immediately followed by any of . ? ! : ; , ) ] } or by a closing quotation mark (single or double), use a non-breaking space before the ellipsis, and no space after it". — Sgconlaw (talk) 16:46, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
- As a space is not necessary before an ellipsis in informal use (i.e., when not used to shorten sentences), I do not think we should change the punctuation in quotations. J3133 (talk) 02:49, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
Labels at plurals
Are the repeated labels at overmorrows intentional? You did not add them to smoke wagons/smoke-wagons. J3133 (talk) 17:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
- @J3133: well, it was intentional in the sense that I consciously added it, though I wasn't really thinking about whether we generally add such labels to non-lemma forms or not. I guess you can remove them. — Sgconlaw (talk) 17:04, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Sections in quotations
- Discussion moved to Talk:cloop.
Both original and republished quotations
- Discussion moved to Talk:cloop.
Which locations should be included?
E.g., the template {{RQ:Bell Wullie McWattie's Master}} uses “New York, N.Y.; Edinburgh”, but there are five locations indicated in the work itself. J3133 (talk) 02:17, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- @J3133: I usually provide the first two. In the case of Bell's work, I thought I recalled that there is a rule in the Anglo-American Cataloguing Rules (2nd edition) which says that a place of publication relating to the author can also be specified. Bell was a Scottish author. However, having done some Googling, it turns out that I didn't recall the rule correctly—rather, the second place of publication should be either "the first of any subsequently named places in the home country ", or any "subsequently named place that is given prominence by the layout or typography of the source of information". I suppose it isn't really helpful to follow the "place in the home country of the cataloguing agency" rule here (US, I guess), and since the layout or typography in the work doesn't give particular prominence to any other place of publication, we can just specify the second one listed. — Sgconlaw (talk) 18:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Before you had created the template, I used “New York, N.Y.; ” (I replaced the quotation with the template before publishing my edit). J3133 (talk) 07:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)